tzanth Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 [quote name='Commodore' post='1322092' date='Apr 20 2008, 18.25']The political thing with Lee just isn't working. They bring up some executive order out of the blue with no real context, it just seemed like a really ham handed attempt to take a shot at the concept of military tribunals.[/quote] Its not really out of the blue; Roslin has always had a pretty strong authoritarian streak to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 [quote name='tzanth' post='1322263' date='Apr 21 2008, 02.24']Its not really out of the blue; Roslin has always had a pretty strong authoritarian streak to her.[/quote] She's been becoming more and more of a hard-ass since the miniseries. Whereas we've been finding out how much of a softy Adama actually is since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHK for Darwin Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 [quote]That was a main focus of the miniseries, if you weren't paying attention. Hell, it's an important thing RIGHT NOW in US politics. People aren't happy when you start using war to try and shut them out of the government and run it like a dictatorship.[/quote] And that's always been one of the main weaknesses of the show. Trying to hard, and often ham-handedly, to be relevant to present day events. Sometimes the context of the show supports those allusions, but very often it doesn't. They are not the most powerful people in the universe who just had a few thousand civilians (out of 300 million) slaughtered by fanatical terrorists. They are the last remnants of an entire species who are fleeing for their lives from genocidal butchers. They've had JUST a little more hardship to deal with and would be MUCH more inclined to accept elements of authoritarianism if it kept them safe. There wouldn't be much soul searching on the right or wrong of Cylon torture. The only conflict would be the near riot over who gets to cut the fingers off the prisoner and who gets to disembowel them. The abortion question was very interesting, relevant, and fit the context of the show. Can a population of a few thousand reasonably sustain the freedoms they had previously been used to. (though they copped out on that one) The questions surrounding the suicide bombing resistance worked within the context of the show, since even if the attacks were necessary, you're still further depopulating an almost dead species. But some of the other shit? I have a little trouble with people clamoring for freedom and justice when they're on the run for their lives and the very existence of their species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 [quote name='EnlightenmentHK' post='1322303' date='Apr 21 2008, 03.34']And that's always been one of the main weaknesses of the show. Trying to hard, and often ham-handedly, to be relevant to present day events.[/quote] I don't think they do that at all. It's simply that todays events are very analogous to events in the show. There is a very prevalent threat (whether it's real or not is up to you) to both their and our society. And societies tend to act the same way towards these things. Hence, similar things happen. Leaders clamp down on liberties in order to maintain control and safety. [quote]They are not the most powerful people in the universe who just had a few thousand civilians (out of 300 million) slaughtered by fanatical terrorists. They are the last remnants of an entire species who are fleeing for their lives from genocidal butchers. They've had JUST a little more hardship to deal with and would be MUCH more inclined to accept elements of authoritarianism if it kept them safe.[/quote] And they have. Roslin and Adama, as Lee so accurately pointed out last season, have been running the Fleet without regard for what anyone else thinks. And they've been getting away with it. But just as most people there and in real life are willing to go along with it, there's always people who AREN'T. Who refuse to surrender liberties no matter how dangerous the world may be. Like Lee. Which, as it seems now, is WHY Zarek is helping him out. There also WASN'T any question about Cylon torture. The whole point of Flesh and Bone was Starbuck coming around to the idea that maybe they weren't quite the unfeeling machines she thought they were. At the start, her and everyone else is perfectly happy to brutally torture Leoben because he's a Cylon, so who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulofritter Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 [quote name='EnlightenmentHK' post='1322303' date='Apr 21 2008, 00.34']There wouldn't be much soul searching on the right or wrong of Cylon torture. The only conflict would be the near riot over who gets to cut the fingers off the prisoner and who gets to disembowel them.[/quote] You might remember that gang rape was the point that the conflict started, which seems reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Kilmore Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 [quote name='Commodore' post='1322092' date='Apr 20 2008, 20.25']The political thing with Lee just isn't working. They bring up some executive order out of the blue with no real context, it just seemed like a really ham handed attempt to take a shot at the concept of military tribunals.[/quote] I don't think it was that out of the blue, nor do I think was it a specifically a commentary on what is going on now. I think it was addressing two concerns that were coming up. Roslin was sidelining Lee for defending Balthasar (sp?) and the legal system that is currently set-up seems all over the place, with enforcement being very spotty. Lee attempted to defend the president in that conference and he got shut down by her. She was pushing him off to the side. He brought it up to demonstrate that his voice is one that is going to be heard and she better listen. The reason I see the executive judges being appointed by Roslin is because she knows that more order needs to be established and that she has had experienced what has happened when she is no longer in control. (She also believes that her leadership is inspired by divinity.) Last time she lost control, Humanity ended up on a barren plant with Cylons ruling over them. She is driven, as she sees it, to protect Humanity from adversity, be it from outside sources or from itself. This leads to a singleness of purpose and as the show has established, Roslin is not always right. She is continually disregarding other voices, some are justified as EHK pointed out, others though are not. I think that is the point of Lee's arch. She is ignoring able and intelligent people simply because they disagree with her. It sets up a dangerous precendent, even in a situation where more authoritarian rule might be needed. Editted to Add: Re: Apollo leaving. It works for me. The military has no one of experience in the civilian government to represent its view point. There isn't a representative in the Quorm that Adama has sought out and the show has hit the theme that the people understand very little about what is going on with the military. As a military person, I would be thrilled to have someone on that comittee that I know understands military matters and mindset. That would be huge to have one of my own on the governing council. Besides, I am sure if Cylons come a knocking, Lee can still get in a viper and go a rocking with the rest of them. He is just not involved in the day to day stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raidne Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 [quote name='The Stranger' post='1321797' date='Apr 20 2008, 15.24']I think it is Tori, Tyrol (appalling), XII, Tigh, Anders.[/quote] Funny. I could've sworn it was a drag queen, Dracula, Gwyneth Paltrow as painted in Great Expectations, an alien from Close Encounters, and Anders. The last one is [i]obviously[/i] Anders. Or maybe Starbuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potsherds Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 [quote name='Raidne' post='1322488' date='Apr 21 2008, 13.52']Funny. I could've sworn it was a drag queen, Dracula, Gwyneth Paltrow as painted in Great Expectations, an alien from Close Encounters, and Anders. The last one is [i]obviously[/i] Anders. Or maybe Starbuck.[/quote] :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 [quote name='Raidne' post='1322488' date='Apr 21 2008, 06.52']Funny. I could've sworn it was a drag queen, Dracula, Gwyneth Paltrow as painted in Great Expectations, an alien from Close Encounters, and Anders.[/quote] That is absurd. Why would they have Anders appearing with four instances of Gwyneth Paltrow???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormon Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 [quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1322652' date='Apr 21 2008, 10.59']That is absurd. Why would they have Anders appearing with four instances of Gwyneth Paltrow????[/quote] :lol: HELLO!!!...... They're Cylons!!! Of course they look alike :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatole Kuragin Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 [quote name='Guy Kilmore' post='1322416' date='Apr 21 2008, 07.32']Roslin was sidelining Lee for defending Balthasar (sp?)[/quote] Baltar. And I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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