Red Herrings

[Shewoman]

Black Wizard--at this point we don't know if Rhaegar and Lyanna were married, so Jon's legitimacy is difficult to determine. I don't think Ned is Jon's father; the only way Jon could be legitimate if he were would be if Ned had married Jon's mother prior to marrying Catelyn.

[Wrex]

[quote name='Black Wizard' post='1300945' date='Apr 4 2008, 18.28']Jon is illegitimate whether his father is Eddard or Rhaegar.[/quote]

Actually, it is possible Rhaegar married Lyanna. ( I don't support this theory, but it is possible)

[Ned Sand]

[quote name='Wrex' post='1300969' date='Apr 4 2008, 13.39']Actually, it is possible Rhaegar married Lyanna. ( I don't support this theory, but it is possible)[/quote]Possible for a Targaryen maybe, but it requires a polygamous marriage, given Elia.

[Bronn Stone]

I do support the "Rhaegar married Lyanna" thesis (though of course it is pure speculation at this point).

Part of my reasoning stems from the fact that a huge deal has been made of Targaryen polygamy, but in reality it has not yet played any significant role in the current story. GRRM added (and emphasized it) for a reason. One possible reason is that Daenerys will marry twice (and that is probably the most likely reason), but another (and not mutually exclusive) reason is that perhaps Rhaegar did.

Ser Hugh was definitely a red herring. At some point when the tale is done, I intend to corner GRRM and ask if Ser Hugh's death was Ser Gregor acting independently, much as Pycelle admits he acted independently to hasten the death of Jon Arryn in the (mistaken) belief that the Lannisters were the ones behind his poisoning.

On the subject of Rhaego and the Stallion Who Mounts the World prophecy, hard to call that a red herring in that it was resolved in the same book as it was introduced. I think that its purpose in the tale was a reminder/declaration that sorcery can trump prophecy.

I also think that Ghost of High Hills dream of Sansa slaying a giant in a castle made of snow is something of a red herring in that it was resolved in a trivial fashion. Others still assert that it remains to be seen, but I am pretty sure it is done.

[Black Wizard]

When did the Targaryen's ever polygamise (is that a word?)? We know that they committed incest, but what do we know about polygamy?

[the silent speaker]

Aegon I definitely was polygamous. Maegor I was apparently so also, per a SSM that "not all" of his wives were married to him at the same time.

Someone cast doubt on the report that Martin mentioned Sandor at the latest con, indicating that the cited quote was actually older than AFFC. I cling to that.

[Shewoman]

I think some info on Targaryen polygamy is found in the indices at the end of each book. The one in Game of Thrones shows Aegon I having a child by each of his sisters Rhaenys and Visenya.

Jaime also refers to Targaryen incest on those occasions when he tries to persuade Cersei to go public with their relationship.

[alguien]

[quote name='the silent speaker' post='1301268' date='Apr 4 2008, 15.51']Someone cast doubt on the report that Martin mentioned Sandor at the latest con, indicating that the cited quote was actually older than AFFC. I cling to that.[/quote]

No, what I'm quoting is the most recent report from Technicon, earlier this week on March 30th, in which LugaJetBoyGirl stated:

"Oh, and for the Hound fans, GRRM pretty much said that he was alive, saying 'it will be very interesting to finish his story, since he is such a grey character."

This isn't from a quote from before AFFC, that was a separate thread.

Besides, its pretty obvious that the gravedigger is the Hound.

[the silent speaker]

That's the one I'm talking about. Someone in that thread said that quote was one that had been made earlier. If Luga heard this with her own ears at technicon, I will simply have to be sad. (Unless 'finish his story' means through recountings in other POVs similar to Elder Brother's.)

And I don't think it's obvious in-story that the Hound is [i]anybody[/i], though if he must keep the damn pulse I concede that there's more hinting about that gravediger than anyone else.

[Angalin]

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1301004' date='Apr 4 2008, 11.58']Ser Hugh was definitely a red herring. At some point when the tale is done, I intend to corner GRRM and ask if Ser Hugh's death was Ser Gregor acting independently, much as Pycelle admits he acted independently to hasten the death of Jon Arryn in the (mistaken) belief that the Lannisters were the ones behind his poisoning.[/quote]
Do ask that question, Bronn, if you get the chance. :) However, does Gregor Clegane ever miss a chance to kill someone if he can? Ser Hugh may have bitten it to help establish the Mountain's general awfulness and bloodthirstiness.

[texdionis]

Meaning of "tansy".

Firstly we are brought to think it's the name of a woman, in fact we meet a woman at the River Inn (sp?) whose name is Tansy.
But eventually we know that "tansy" is the name of an abortive drink, and that was intended to be.

[Shewoman]

It's both a woman's name (or nickname) and an abortifacient. No need to choose only one definition.

[Ned Sand]

[quote name='texdionis' post='1302655' date='Apr 6 2008, 05.39']Meaning of "tansy".[/quote]I think [i]by 'red herring', we mean something that we thought meant something, but it turned out to mean nothing[/i].

Tansy wouldn't exactly be one because, while it didn't mean what we thought it did, it did mean something else.

'Willa', perhaps, might be a red herring because she turns out to be unimportant after all. That, however, is Eddard's red herring to Robert, not GRRM's to us.

For instance, if the horn that Jon found turns out to be just a horn, that'll be a red herring.

[i](typo)[/i]

[texdionis]

ok :uhoh: :idea:

[Bormon]

[quote name='texdionis' post='1302655' date='Apr 6 2008, 06.39']Meaning of "tansy".

Firstly we are brought to think it's the name of a woman, in fact we meet a woman at the River Inn (sp?) whose name is Tansy.
But eventually we know that "tansy" is the name of an abortive drink, and that was intended to be.[/quote]


I always thought that Tansy was the name of a flower. I am not sure if the story gives us any reason to think that, I just did. So in my mind the abortive drink was made from the flower, and the Name was like the name "Rose"

[Black Wizard]

"Tansy" is an anagram of "nasty".

[Ned Sand]

[quote name='Bormon' post='1304071' date='Apr 7 2008, 08.20']I always thought that Tansy was the name of a flower. I am not sure if the story gives us any reason to think that, I just did. So in my mind the abortive drink was made from the flower, and the Name was like the name "Rose"[/quote]Right. The Hoster/Tansy issue first appears in aSoS in the first [url="http://www.towerofthehand.com/books/103/003.html"]Catelyn chapter[/url]. There, we learn that Tansy is a flower and is sometimes used as a girl's name. In the same chapter, Catelyn concludes that Hoster caused Lysa to have an abortion. Catelyn does not speculate at that time as to who the natural father had been.

It's not until later that we infer that the herb Tansy is used (maybe with other herbs) to brew moon tea.

[Shewoman]

I thought moon tea was to prevent pregnancy and tansy was to end pregnancy.

[Guest Other-in-law]

The biggest red herring imo is Ygritte's comment about Mance's excavation of old tombs in the Frostfangs 'letting all those shades loose into the world'.

Her word was "shades", which is never explicitly used as a synonym for 'Others' or 'wights' anywhere in the series, but an awful lot of readers have leaped to that chronologically impossible conclusion.

[Black Wizard]

Those "shades" might just be a wildling superstition.