Footy time again!

[mormont]

And let's keep the baiting to a civilised level please. :)

Carrying on from the last thread on Chelsea's unpopularity: I think there's a feeling that it's OK to play dull negative stuff if you do it because your resources are limited, and it's OK to spend big if you play entertaining football, but to spend big and play dull is the worst of both worlds. Hence why Chelsea get so much stick.

PS no-prize for the person who identifies where the topic sub-title comes from. ;)

[Paddy]

Heh, LB isn't the only one who thinks that way.[quote name='BBC Sport']Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger blamed poor refereeing decisions for his side's Champions League exit to Liverpool.
He said: "[b]I felt the game was over at 2-2[/b]. Then there was a dodgy penalty and we started to lose concentration. "[/quote]He felt the game was over??
Looks like a couple of his players thought so too.

My view, it was a penalty. It's touch-and-go and it isn't as clear cut as foul last week on Hleb (which was stonewall), but the people saying there's no way it was a penalty are definitely wrong. It's completely understandable that the referee gave it.
Sure Walcott's run was amazing and deserved a goal, but it was against the run of play. Liverpool were the better team for pretty much all of the second half and the last part of the first, from around when they scored.

Arsenal fans should be asking themselves "Why the hell is Philippe Senderos on our team when we think we're a top-class team?", not bitching at the ref. He had a shocker last night. And he is not good enough.

Liverpool did what they had to do in the first leg. They stayed strong and contained Arsenal and took their away goal when it came along. Not much fancy stuff, but the right thing. Those bitching about that should take a look at themselves and what they'd be saying if it was their team who did it. Liverpool were mature and sensible. They were NOT cynical.
Yes, they rode their luck with Kuyt's foul on Hleb, but you take what comes your way. The referee got that wrong, not Liverpool. And going on last night's performance, there's no guarantee Arsenal still wouldn't have lost the tie.
Arsenal huffed and puffed in the first leg, knew they needed another goal, but just didn't have the ability to break Liverpool down in their great defensive performance and they got tired out by about 80mins.

Last night, Arsenal started off well and got their goal, but after that they seemed to have the fear set in and it was all Liverpool with the sole exception of a moment of genius by Walcott, which I dont think any of us thought he was capable of. Liverpool were combining well, creating chances and Mascherano was his usual towering self in the Defensive Midfielder role.

The better team over the two legs won, regardless of refereeing decisions. End of.

[Paddy]

[quote name='mormont' post='1307318' date='Apr 9 2008, 11.37']Carrying on from the last thread on Chelsea's unpopularity: I think there's a feeling that it's OK to play dull negative stuff if you do it because your resources are limited, and it's OK to spend big if you play entertaining football, but to spend big and play dull is the worst of both worlds. Hence why Chelsea get so much stick.[/quote]
Heh, I fail at concise. Yeah, I agree.

[lessthanluke]

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1307320' date='Apr 9 2008, 11.45']My view, it was a penalty. It's touch-and-go and it isn't as clear cut as foul last week on Hleb (which was stonewall), but the people saying there's no way it was a penalty are definitely wrong. It's completely understandable that the referee gave it.[/quote]

Guess we shall agree to disagree. I honestly cannot see how that is a penalty. Anyway it was a great game regardless. Man Utd for the trophy!

[squiddly]

Meh,. Looked like a definite penalty from the one angle, then the other camera angle showed Babel's performance. Magnificent acting if nothing else. Kinda like when Mascherano apologises after tackling Flamini. :P

Anyway, Torres' goal was great, Walcott's run was great, good match. Just a shame it'll be a Liverpool - Chelsea semi (though I'm not sure Arsenal - Chelsea would have been much better).


Come on Rome! :smoking:

[Daeric]

Great match to watch, through I am still disappointed about Arsenal going out.

My first reaction (through highly biased since I am an Arsenal fan) was that it was never a penalty, futher viewings of it lets me see a glimmer of why the referee was giving it since he had being pretty much giving free kicks all night for a little contact but it seemed more of a tangle then a blatant pull back.

Eboue keeps having good phases on and off, but tbh I would rather see Walcott playing instead of him. His techincal skills is just as good but hes much much faster.

[Lord Baelish]

Eboue's been a waste of space every time I've seen him play. At least twice last night he had an opportunity to put a great cross in, and both times he messed it up. Walcott would be far more effective, though I can see why Wenger keeps using him as an impact sub - he did well coming on twice against Milan and again last night. But with Eboue and Diaby on the wings, Arsenal lacked real quality out wide. Diaby is better than Eboue, but he's right-footed and I haven't seen put any crosses in yet. The sooner Rosicky comes back the better.

It's a position I think Wenger needs to strengthen in the summer, as well as getting more cover at centre-back. Senderos was responsible for Liverpool's first two goals. He's just way too unreliable in the big games. I would rather have Toure there and play Hoyte at right-back.

[The Inquisitor]

Look, I'm very sorry about Arsenal, they play a lovely footie, that's for sure... I wanted them to make it through

But,

a- As Paddie say, what on earth is Senderos doing there?!?! the 2 first goals are entirely his get
b- Yes brilliant run by Walcott, and a great goal... but what on bloody hell did Arse think? That the match was over with 6 minnutes left and Liverpool forced to score at home?!?! The whole team short-circuited in 60 seconds
c- Liverpool simply deserved to win. Their proposal might not be as pleasing to the eye, but they played it better in 180 minutes than Arsenal
d- Shit happens. Look at Man Utd and Bayern.


... and to the whole Liverpool vs Chelsea= the day that music died

:rolleyes:

[john]

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1307320' date='Apr 9 2008, 11.45']Arsenal fans should be asking themselves "Why the hell is Philippe Senderos on our team when we think we're a top-class team?", not bitching at the ref. He had a shocker last night. And he is not good enough.[/quote]

Similarly, why does Darren Fletcher sometimes get a start for you guys? :/

Back to the important issue :P, I said it was definitely a penalty last night, but after seeing it several times I don't think I'd want it given if I had any say in anything. Still, it's givable and thats all that matters. And you kind of lose the right to complain when it ends 4-2.

I also read in one paper that Capello left early and didnt even see Walcott's goal!

[Paddy]

[quote name='LessThanLuke' post='1307345' date='Apr 9 2008, 12.21']Guess we shall agree to disagree. I honestly cannot see how that is a penalty. Anyway it was a great game regardless. Man Utd for the trophy![/quote]
Do you think there was contact between Toure and Babel?
Do you think it was in the penalty area?

If you say yes to both those things then there is at least the possibility that it was a penalty. If you say no to either of the things then yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[quote name='squiddly' post='1307346' date='Apr 9 2008, 12.27']Anyway, Torres' goal was great, Walcott's run was great, good match. Just a shame it'll be a Liverpool - Chelsea semi (though I'm not sure Arsenal - Chelsea would have been much better).[/quote]
Ah, I dunno. Give it its due. I judge the tie when I've seen it.

[quote name='squiddly' post='1307346' date='Apr 9 2008, 12.27']Come on Rome! :smoking:[/quote]
It's Pantomime Villain time.

[Calibandar]

Observations on last night's match.

It was awesome. The sort of game you can look forward to and which then lives up to those high expectations of a great Champions League quarter final. Lots of fight, lots of skill from both sides. Just fantastic.

Specific stuff that comes to me.

Senderos. Quite clearly a weak link in the Arsenal defence ever since he first came. While Toure and Gallas are far from flawless they are still markedy better than he is. Hyppia scores a great header, but Senderos is marking him. He loses the duel. Then it is 1-1, Torres is in the penalty area and Senderos is giving him so much room to manoevre it is incredible. Torres finished magnificently but what poor defending as well.

Also, I felt Liverpool deserved to go through. Arsenal had the better start and pinned Liverpool down with the 0-1. But then Liverpool equalize and Arsenal never came back into the match. It always looked like it would be 2-1 to Liverpool rather than the other way around. Walcott's run was out of this world, and when he did it I was thinking to myself "Well Liverpool has Babel and he's very quick as well". And within a minute he is outpacing Arsenal's defenders [b]who are touching Babel and not getting the ball in the penalty area[/b] and it's a penalty. I thought it was a fair decision.

Then the 4-2, where Babel illustrates his enormous pace and rounds off nicely. What a match.

Van Persie: Has he spent two weeks consecutively this season free from injury? I doubt it, and I wonder what this means for the EC performance this summer.

Star of the match for me though was once again Gerrard. The passing, his drive, the threat, the way he is a captain to his team. What a bear of a player. And to take that penalty at 2-2 with so much pressure on you in front of a vast crowd, and to put it away so comfortably, high in the net with great speed, that is genuine class. Of course we already knew it, but still. Definitly one of Europe's finest.

Terersa

On Huntelaar. He is not very fast, he will not be doing rounds round defenders with sheer pace. Nor is he very technical. Or very good at free kicks for that matter, or from scoring from far away. What he does like no one else is be in the panelty box and score from every position. He always knows where the ball will be. He also has that knack of just needing an inch of space in order to score. Great at headers as well. Mostly though it's just a superb goal scoring instinct.

[lessthanluke]

Im sorry but touching someone does not make it a foul. This isn't basketball!

[Calibandar]

The ref needed no time to consider whether this was a penalty, he was adamant, and looking at it I saw no reason why it would not be one. Babel is moving swiftly, Arsenal defenders are tired from an evening's work and bring him off balance and do not gain possesion of the ball. He falls. Penalty is given. Not very questionable to me. Unless you're Basil Fawlty on the sideline.

[Mathis]

Whew, that was one hell of a game. Probably the best I've seen this season. Liverpool were good for their victory and IMO it was a penalty. There was genuine contact even if Babel didn't endear himself to the neutrals by dropping like a rock.

Arsenal were unlucky to lose Flamini, Gilberto is passed it, but they only have themselves to blame. Selling Diarra was a mistake despite the nice profit.

Its been said by everyone but Arsenal don't have the head for this type of encounter. They haven't been able to hold a lead against Liverpool and to concede a minute after scoring is a joke. Walcott's run for Adebayor's goal definately deserved to be a match winner.

Kudos to Benitez for starting with two strikers (three if you count Kuyt, I don't). Arsenal played into Liverpool's hands by selecting Senderos. When you're being done by a change of direction from Sami Hyypia you have a problem. Though I suppose he can't be as bad we make out, he was almost everpresent in that 05/06 CL record breaking defensive setup that didn't concede for a record time.


ETA: Gerrard star of the match? Eh? He said himself that he had a poor game. The penalty counts for a lot, it was emphatic, but it was Babel who got it. Gerrard wasn't bad but he didn't do a lot, penalty aside.

[Lord Baelish]

That's the thing with Senderos, and is pretty much the case for Titus Bramble as well. They are both usually pretty solid, but then suffer a massive lapse in concentration that proves fatal to the team. Senderos's positioning really leaves a lot to be desired, too.

[Calibandar]

Mathis

Gerrard has seen even better matches yes, but I thought he was superb nevertheless last night. Very good defensively as well, loads of work, good passing. Maybe not as eyecatching as he often is with 25 yard strikes.

[Paddy]

[quote name='john' post='1307398' date='Apr 9 2008, 13.48']Similarly, why does Darren Fletcher sometimes get a start for you guys? :/[/quote]
Very rarely :P

And well, Fletcher doesn't play in such a critical area of the pitch. I can't think off the top of my head of a time when Fletcher has cost us, though that doesn't mean a whole lot really.

I'd actually say that a bit more about John O'Shea, who gets more match time than Fletcher. Fair enough both players are not First XI, but after a very promising debut year in 2003, O'Shea hasn't shown himself to be good enough to play on that team.

[Daeric]

Cali

I disagree alot with Gerrard being the man of the match, he went long spells of absentee from the match were you just didn't see him do anything productive. If I was going to give to a Liverpool player it would either be Carraghar or Kuyt. Both had good matches and both worked hard.

On Senderos, most of the time he is rock solid and most clubs would love to have him, but he does have a habit of drifting off. We need Keown to come give him a kick in the head to make him concetrate.

[Paddy]

Agreed with Gerrard not being impressive last night. The Irish commentator even mentioned how he was playing like he wasn't happy with being in the position he was.

Speaking of Irish coverage. The analysis afterwards was riveting television.
Liam Brady is a regular on the panels of these shows, but he's also head of Arsenal's youth development, so he defends Arsenal a fair bit from criticism (though he's pretty good about it).

Eamonn Dunphy is one to annoy people and he was digging a bit at Brady a bit when Brady was asked about Arsenal losing and Dunphy interrupted him to say something negative about Arsenal and say "Liam can't say these things, but Graeme (Souness; who was on the panel) and I can".
Later, they showed a sequence of clips with Arsene Wenger being very agitated and animated on the sidelines over both legs and Brady nearly blew a gasket. He claimed it was a hatchet job on Wenger and said that if he'd known they were going to show that he wouldn't have come on the show.
Great telly.

[Paddy]

Teresa got her wish. No Pantomime Villain Cristiano Ronaldo :P

Terrible decision by the referee to give that penalty. Clearly a good tackle by Brown.
Really bad miss by Di Rossi.

Good match :)