The Darkness that Comes Before

[Lies And Perfidy]

[quote name='Benjen Stark' post='1316740' date='Apr 16 2008, 09.33']Honestly, I've forgotten most of the names, but there are characters I absolutely remember, from the bit character guy who kept taking the outriders and wandering all over the middle ea... err... enemy territory to the top players in the Scarlet Spires, to the equally nutty Cnaiur and Conphas.[/quote]Coithus Athjeari, Hanumanu Eleazaras, and Heramari Iyokus.

...okay, I had to look up Iyokus's family name.

...but I may still like these books a little too much.

[Shryke]

Iyokus' family name never really came up as far as I remember. But yeah, I always recognized Athjeari's name.

SPOILER: End of TTT

I was actually sad when he dies. He'd been there forever it seemed by that point.

The characters are memorable enough, there's just not that many of them, at least compared to ASOIAF.

And if the philosophy stuff is pissing you off, I'd say its only gonna get worse. Finish up the first book and see if you like it any better.

[Lies And Perfidy]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1317223' date='Apr 16 2008, 16.20']Iyokus' family name never really came up as far as I remember. But yeah, I always recognized Athjeari's name.

SPOILER: End of TTT

I was actually sad when he dies. He'd been there forever it seemed by that point.

[/quote]

SPOILER: same

I saw his death coming as soon as he rode into Amoteu, and I was hoping I was wrong. I'm not really sure why I liked him so much - just a very compelling sketch of a decent, straightforward and capable man entirely driven by "what comes before."

Maybe I'm reading too much into what little we got of him, but I sort of think you're [i]intended[/i] to read a lot into, well, everything in the books. They're like that.

[Shryke]

[quote name='Lies And Perfidy' post='1317245' date='Apr 16 2008, 18.35']

SPOILER: same

I saw his death coming as soon as he rode into Amoteu, and I was hoping I was wrong. I'm not really sure why I liked him so much - just a very compelling sketch of a decent, straightforward and capable man entirely driven by "what comes before."

Maybe I'm reading too much into what little we got of him, but I sort of think you're [i]intended[/i] to read a lot into, well, everything in the books. They're like that.[/quote]

SPOILER: TTT

I just thought of him as a background, stable guy. He was always there, ahead of the army, killing people. He's like that extra you always see, you don't expect him to die.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

The Prince of Nothing is, at present, my mostest favoritest epic fantasy.

[shady12]

Well I read a few more chapters and am putting it down for now. I plan on finishing it but am going to read something else in between. Just started Odyssey by Jack McDevitt and 30 pages in it's like a breath of fresh air, I was into it from the beginning.

[pat5150]

Pick up Goodkind's [i]Faith of the Fallen[/i] or [i]The Pillars of Creation[/i] instead. A few pages into either, and you'll be running back to Bakker. And lovin' it! :P

Patrick

[Lord of Oop North]

[i]The Prince of Nothing[/i] is my favorite fantasy series. It clicked with me on every level.

If you already don't like the philosophy, its only going to get more prevalent. It is a major part of the trilogy.

I would urge you to keep reading, but if you don't like it, then you don't like it.

[shady12]

Pat, I have read both of those..While they are crap they somehow managed to hold my attention better than PoN so far. Both cram the authors ideas (Capitalism/democracy good! Socialism/Communism bad! vs. here's my damn philosophy!) down your throat.

[lokisnow]

it's a lesser version of Dune, but it's worth the read. consider that this book isn't really a complete novel, it's 700 pages of exposition for the 700 pages of battles in the second book. the third book is more like a complete novel, splitting the Tarentino/FinalFantasy martialarts-god battles with the philosophizing fairly evenly.

[Shryke]

[quote name='lockesnow' post='1317665' date='Apr 16 2008, 23.59']it's a [b]better [/b]version of Dune[/quote]

[Shevchyk]

Suggesting that the philosophy (as it were) within the book it (a) the author's and (b) was being crammed down your throat is a somewhat fallacious. For one, each character has his or her viewpoint. Secondly, there's nothing that revealing in the things stated by any of the characters. History dictates what we think & how we treat one another? That's not terribly new information. Thirdly, the book does not exist to serve the goals of Scott's so-called philosophy. The narrative works perfectly well with or without it. A reader that's uninterested in any of the more thorough intellectual observations made by the book could enjoy PoN despite throwing all intellectual considerations to the wind.

As with all novels: what you get out of the book depends on what you bring to the book.

[OverHill]

[quote name='R. Scott Bakker ']There will be some minor differences in style - I’ve tried to gear the lyricism of my prose more to character than to plot. There will also be substantially less narrative navel gazing - I think that was one area where I erred too much on the literary side in The Prince of Nothing.[/quote]
I think this quote from an interview with Pat describes the weak part of PON very well. I struggled in parts (I hate inner monolouges were characters goes on repeat) but I'm quite happy with finishing the series. Will certainly pick up his next book.

On a side note: Shady. Where in his books do Tairy speaks up for Democracy? Dictatorship is more up his lane

[Muttering Bill]

[quote name='shady12' post='1317414' date='Apr 16 2008, 21.26']Well I read a few more chapters and am putting it down for now. I plan on finishing it but am going to read something else in between.[/quote]
I had to do that with all three of the PoN novels. Sometimes you just need to take a break. Read something a little lighter to recharge and then try it again.

[Jaz]

I had the same problem about a year back, but a few days ago I started again, and I'm now in the last 50 pages and completely in it's thrall.

[Lord of Oop North]

[quote]it's a better version of Dune[/quote]

Totally.

[quote]Pat, I have read both of those..While they are crap they somehow managed to hold my attention better than PoN so far. Both cram the authors ideas (Capitalism/democracy good! Socialism/Communism bad! vs. here's my damn philosophy!) down your throat.[/quote]

I don't agree.

I never got the impression that he was preaching, and thought the philosophy fit well within the narrative.

[shady12]

Ok, so it's not preaching..It's just a lot of something that I don't want to hear. Sorry R. Scott.

[S John]

I had the same problem as the OP. I'll go back and finish it eventually but it didn't take me long to put it down. I read becuase I enjoy doing it and if I'm thouroughly not enjoying a book then I've completely defeated the purpose. I'm sure many of you are right and if I stick it out it'll pick up, but I'm going to save that for another day.

[IheartTesla]

Life is too short to waste time on something you get no pleasure in doing. So if you cant get into the story, just let it go until you get the urge to read it again.....maybe when you have nothing better to do than watch paint dry.

I personally dont follow my own advice frequently because of sheer bloody mindedness, but am learning to let go of stories that dont engage me. Unfortunately I read through all three books of PoN because of the above characteristic.

[Lyanna Stark]

[quote name='shady12' post='1318050' date='Apr 17 2008, 15.14']Ok, so it's not preaching..It's just a lot of something that I don't want to hear. Sorry R. Scott.[/quote]


If you don't like it then don't read it.

I found PoN to be rather tough going initially, and I have some issues with certain parts of the author's portayal of women in particular, although I can understand his reason for it.

That said, PoN is a masterpiece and many passages are utterly brilliant. I found myself rushing through the third part of the series at breakneck speed. Also, the philosophy makes far more sense in book 2 and 3, since the groundwork is laid down in book 1, and is put to work in book 2 and book 3.


If you want epic sweeping fantasy, I'd say "Deadhouse Gates" by Erikson. Easier to swallow by many than the first part of the series "Gardens of the Moon" and a brilliant piece of writing. Far superior in quality to GotM, and somewhat less confusing.