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Dune: The Original Novel


Larry.

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I haven't read the original [i]Dune[/i] book since late 2001/early 2002 and I decided that I wanted to start re-reading it in earnest and perhaps comment on some of Herbert's ideas, characterizations, etc. It was a surprise to me to discover after a search that there was no true dedicated [i]Dune[/i] thread here (besides one last year complaining about how it was "overrated"), so I thought I'd start one for use over the next few days and weeks.

Anyone want to start off by sharing what they liked/disliked about the book, its characters, themes, ideas, etc.?
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Hmm, the idea of a dedicated thread about a book is a bit odd to me. There are hundreds, if not thousands of books we could have a thread on, but I don't feel it's feasible for discussion on each of them.

Ah well, I actually read some Dune books recently. Dune was good. So was Dune Messiah. Not so much Children of Dune. God Emperor of Dune was more interesting. And Chapterhouse: Dune felt like a total throw out of left-field.

Should have ended it at the previous book.

The pre-quel books are at least half-way entertaining, but only that.
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Odd? Not really. There are certain authors here that get multiple threads dedicated to them (and to their detractors/supporters ;)) and since Herbert's work is reputedly the best-selling SF novel of all time, why not?

And here's a question for you, since you mentioned them all - what was it about the first book that made it more enjoyable than the ones that followed?
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[quote name='Dylanfanatic' post='1322198' date='Apr 20 2008, 22.07']Odd? Not really. There are certain authors here that get multiple threads dedicated to them (and to their detractors/supporters ;)) and since Herbert's work is reputedly the best-selling SF novel of all time, why not?[/quote]

Really? I've not noticed. Maybe it's because I don't look for ongoing discussions? But then, I also don't expect everything to be discussed here. Completeness isn't feasible with the vast scope of possible things to discuss. Many important books or other subjects will never be discussed here on this board. Many persons on this board will never discuss them elsewhere either.

[quote]And here's a question for you, since you mentioned them all - what was it about the first book that made it more enjoyable than the ones that followed?[/quote]

I didn't say any such thing. I would say I didn't enjoy Children of Dune as much, or Chapterhouse. Children, I I don't know, it was just not that good. I can see the ideas, but I never saw the development in it. Maybe if it'd been longer. Chapterhouse I already explained. I would not, however, say any such thing about Dune Messiah or God Emperor.
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I read it pretty young. Grade six? I remember being blown away with the level of the world building - even if I didn't understand all of the things until later. Should probably read it again. I remember being fascinated with the differing world views of how power should be wielded - Harkonnen vs Atreides.
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MM,

I see I misread what you said slightly about the books as a whole. But the question still stands, in slightly altered form: What is it about the first book that you thought was good? Specifics, please, as I see from IE's response that he/she remembered the "worldbuilding" foremost, as well as the power dynamics and differences between the Atreides and the Harkonnen.

As for myself, it was the view of how societies adapt, from religion to political structures, that has stuck in my craw the most over the past 6-7 years. I wonder what will be most memorable after the upcoming re-read.
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OK, I can respect that, although I still am curious as to the whys/hows, but that's just me, always angling to dig deeper into most anything.
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I still consider Dune the sci-fi novel which impressed me the most when I first read it. I wasn't too thrilled about the whole universe, but Arrakis was an incredible achievement of world-building to me.
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[quote name='Dylanfanatic' post='1322221' date='Apr 21 2008, 06.38']What is it about the first book that you thought was good?[/quote]
I'll give one word: Sandworms, dude! That, and of course, the aspects you already pointed out yourself. Might get back at the topic later on, if time time permits and write a more lengthy post. I did review [url="http://www.fantasybookspot.com/node/2505"]Dune[/url] not so long ago, though.
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Dune certainly is a classic but it doesn't seem to be appreciated that much these days. Well, it's 40 years old and decades of Star Trek have left their imprint on the genre. A pity FH died before he could finish the second trilogy. With a proper conclusion, Heretics and Chapterhouse might get more attention.
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The protagonists were dull and irritating. The books were overlong. The villains were somewhat interesting- but the author only gave us brief glimpses of them.

The sequels co-authored by Anderson were better than the originals.
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I have read the first three, but stalled when I came to [i]God Emperor[/i] (that massive time gap between it and [i]Children [/i] was offputting).

Its hard to beat Dune's originality. Everything from the suits that preserve your sweat in catchpockets for reconsumption, to the way that the Fremen mount and steer the massive Sandworms with the hooks, Herbert creates a world that I could easily see existing in some distant part of the universe. [i]Messiah[/i] had some very interesting ideas about the difficulties that arise from someone who commands foresight.

Some day I might try God Emperor again, and I will definitely reread the first three some day.

BTW, thumbs down on the Dune prequels.
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Let's see, first tried to read it in 2nd grade, failed. Saw the movie in 7th grade, thought "WTF?" Finally got around to reading for reals last year, and thought...well, much as MM did, I think. Good book. Superb worldbuilding (even if it did verge on the ridiculous). Solid characterization (not great). But one of the finest SF books evah? Not seeing it.

Also, and I gather this was intentional (or so says my friend, who's read the whole series), but Paul is [i]really scary[/i]. And an utter bastard.
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I was blown away the first (and so far only) time I read Dune- it was my first SF novel (if you exclude Hitchhiker's Guide) and it is what got me properly started on the genre. I don't remember the details particularly well, but in reading it the world was so remarkably vivid and it was absolutely unlike anything I had ever read before to that point; I remember the feeling of the book so well.

Though I need a re-read for the story. Which is very fuzzy in my mind. :lol:

I haven't felt particularly inclined to read any of the sequels though. I picked up Dune Messiah at the library, read maybe one page, and then decided that I didn't really want to read it after all. :dunno:
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Alot of interesting ideas, but his writing is just straight up awful. Everything interesting is mired by layers of muddy prose.

First Dune was good, Messiash was ... ok. I liked Children of Dune (I find few others do). I thought it would have been a great ending to the series. God Emperor felt like ... an unneeded explanation of what we knew was going to happen anyway. Not bad or anything, it just didn't feel to me like a book that needed to be written. Didn't have that much going on either.

I stopped about 20 pages into Chapterhouse once I realised he'd brought Duncan Idaho back A-FUCKING-GAIN. He wasn't even an interesting character the first time he died, let the fucker rest. Anyway, so I never bothreed with the second trilogy.

The new books have Kevin J Anderson attached, and that was enough for me to stay the fuck away.

All in all, good stories badly written is what I call Dune and it's sequels.

[quote]Also, and I gather this was intentional (or so says my friend, who's read the whole series), but Paul is really scary. And an utter bastard.[/quote]

His son Leto is far more so. deliberately to.
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Never quite understood what it is that makes this book so fascinating to some people. Maybe the sequels add something, but the original novel failed to make much of an impression. Beyond childhood nostalgia, what makes Dune so popular?
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Read them years ago. I only recently found out that Herbert died before he could complete the series. (I always wondered why book 6 ended the way it ended.)

At the time I read them I started to hate the atreides (i always hate ubermenschen) the more the series progressed.

I opposed the faulty logic of the female army.

In my memory 1 and 2 were good, 3 and 4 sucked, 5 was ok and 6 was good again.

[quote]I stopped about 20 pages into Chapterhouse once I realised he'd brought Duncan Idaho back A-FUCKING-GAIN. He wasn't even an interesting character the first time he died, let the fucker rest.[/quote]

I never understood the Duncan fascination also.

Now Im older and wiser (or so I think) so I might re-read the whole series, but not before I read a whole lotta other books
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[i]Dune[/i] is one of my favourite books of all time. I got into it via the Iron Maiden song 'To Tame a Land'. I think Herbert's character's are very interesting and a number of important themes are brought up. The first four books are excellent but [i]Heretics[/i] and [i]Chapterhouse[/i] aren't quite as good, mainly because there's another Duncan bloody Idaho ghola. I would have preffered a more interesting character to have been brought back, such as Stilgar or Thufir. Duncan reminds me a bit too much of Richard Rahl in the final four books. :P



[quote name='Mister Manticore' post='1322228' date='Apr 21 2008, 05.50']Did I enjoy the characters? Sure. Ok, maybe not the Baron, but as a non-protagonist...guess not meant to be enjoyed. Worked as a bad guy though, so maybe I did enjoy him.[/quote]
Ian McNeice is excellent as the Baron in the sci-fi channel's adaptation of [i]Children of Dune[/i]. He's the best character in the miniseries.

[quote name='Zap Rowsdower' post='1322257' date='Apr 21 2008, 07.15']The sequels co-authored by Anderson were better than the originals.[/quote]
Rubbish. The books with Anderson lack much of what Frank Herbert brought to the originals. Herbert snr used fantastic characterisation and involved the theme with every aspect while still producing a gripping plot. [i]Sandworms of Dune[/i] was very good though. The plot was much better than [i]Hunters[/i] and I found the conclusion to be quite satisfying. Of all the characters in the books by Herbert jnr and Anderson, Thufir hawat is probably the most faithful to the orignal novels.
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I'm going to ask this question for the last time on this board and see if anyone here knows the answer:

Was [b]Dune Messiah[/b] intended by Herbert to form one book along with [b]Dune[/b]? I read that the publishers thought it would have made too depressing an ending (to the first book).
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Dune is on my [b]One Hundred Books every human being on the planet should read[/b]. It's a seminal work of Science Fiction up there with 1984, I-Robot, and Brave New World. If it lacks some of the later's social impact, then it is responsible for [b]Star Wars[/b].

Fundamentally, Dune is a book about the Heroic Myth. It's basically a book about a man that's set up to be a God to the world by outsiders and is more or less forced into the role of the Messiah archetype. Dune works very well because if you don't read the sequels, it's easy to believe that its actually a fulfillment of the Heroes' Journey by Joseph Campbell rather than a subversion of it (even when you're constantly bludgeoned over the head with the fact that Paul Atreides is being lead by the hand through this thanks to ages of Bene Gesserit manipulations).

Countless stories have ripped off every element of the story since then.
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