Footy Time!

[Jon AS]

[quote name='cteresa']do you think maybe that sort of problem is not inherently related to the position played?[/quote]

No, I don't think so, though maybe "carrying" the team is a bit too much to ask from such a player, but he could be more effective than he is right now. Bayern's system is essentially the same as Germany's: two defensive midfielders (who have license to attack within reasonable bounds) in the centre with the creative players on the wing (but not, as you pointed out, as true wingers). The trend over the last 10-15 years has been for playmakers to drift out to a wide position to get out of the area of influence of holding midfielders and central defenders, and the really good ones (say, Zidane, or for Germany -obviously on a lower level- Schneider) still manage to excercise their influence on the game from there. Ribéry doesn't really. I assume he'll grow up a bit more and become an excellent player, but so far he is mostly relying on his speed and lacks the vision to truly control a game.

I'm not saying he doesn't add something to a team, but he could do more and be a little less wasteful in his game. There are moments when taking on a (or even several) defenders is the right thing to do, but other times passing the ball on to a better positioned team mate might actually be a good idea.

[Black Wizard]

I nominate Scotland to win.....oh yeah...:(

[Padraig]

[quote]OTOH they might not need to get in gear, the team seems to have had no abrupt changes from the world cup, they seem comfortable with each other, having routines and just smooth and italian and very very italian.[/quote]
Yes, as you say, its hard to know with Italy. Comfortable like France in 2000 and win the title playing very well...or too comfortable like France in 2002 and knocked out in the group stages. Perhaps the group they are in will help them since nobody can be too comfortable going into that group. :)

It is interesting how the more creative players have moved a bit to the side in some cases. The demise of the classic playmaker is sad.

[Black Wizard]

CARDIFF CITY FOR THE FA CUP!

[cteresa]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1358324' date='May 16 2008, 20.29']No, I don't think so, though maybe "carrying" the team is a bit too much to ask from such a player, but he could be more effective than he is right now. Bayern's system is essentially the same as Germany's: two defensive midfielders (who have license to attack within reasonable bounds) in the centre with the creative players on the wing (but not, as you pointed out, as true wingers). The trend over the last 10-15 years has been for playmakers to drift out to a wide position to get out of the area of influence of holding midfielders and central defenders, and the really good ones (say, Zidane, or for Germany -obviously on a lower level- Schneider) still manage to excercise their influence on the game from there. Ribéry doesn't really. I assume he'll grow up a bit more and become an excellent player, but so far he is mostly relying on his speed and lacks the vision to truly control a game.[/quote]

There are very few true wingers in the world. Though maybe true playmakers might be becoming even rarer. I am more worried about how we will replace Deco than the famous striker problem people seem to obsess about.

Not really arguing about Ribery, but playing devil´s advocate about that sort of position, maybe with time, Ribery is still rather young. There is also something about speed masking vision. I mean doing things at speed means making choices faster with less time to see and think, meaning more chance of choosing badly. It´s a risk of speed but worth taking, think of Loras´s comments on Riquelme if you remember those, that he has incredible vision, killer passes but 2 seconds two late where the defender has already closed the space. But in modern football, things are getting faster and faster, IMO defenders are getting better and better and speed is a way to break them. And Ribery might still have more vision than it looks at first. Just warning of the possibility ;)

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1358324' date='May 16 2008, 20.29']I'm not saying he doesn't add something to a team, but he could do more and be a little less wasteful in his game. There are moments when taking on a (or even several) defenders is the right thing to do, but other times passing the ball on to a better positioned team mate might actually be a good idea.[/quote]

Ok. Those faults seem to partially come with the position, every single winger or fake-winger ( and agree Ribery is not a real one, real ones would usually pass more) sort of are accused that same sort of faults all the time. Which is maybe why so few kids grow up to become that ;) Brazillians in their wisdom seem to have stopped producing that line ( and they are probably more ruthless efficient in planning and scientific methods than anybody else. Very seriously).

Back to Ribery, I do think I know what you mean, just my analysis seems to be a lot more irrational, he seems to me like he does not have the spark. The spark manifests itself in all sort of different ways, I do not detect it with my brain, no with me it´s my toes which detect it, they know greatness ( flawed or not) when my eyes see it ;) He can be very very good and very effective and maybe take France far ( grrrr) and while I think the problems you mention can be due to age/position, he does not seem to do new things or be a new type of player or to do one single thing better than anybody else has ever done or is currently doing ( OTOH maybe Thierry Henry, with good service, could be the spark for France). Ribery does not need it to be a great player or to help his team win things, it s just us that sort of hope for more.

[Padraig]

[quote name='cteresa' post='1359063' date='May 17 2008, 12.07']There are very few true wingers in the world. Though maybe true playmakers might be becoming even rarer. I am more worried about how we will replace Deco than the famous striker problem people seem to obsess about.[/quote]
True. At least you are used to not having strikers as such. The midfield has always been vaunted.

The death of the Brazilian winger is also sad.

[Master Aune]

Aragones team for the Euro. No Raul and Bojan.



Iker Casillas (Real Madrid), José M. Reina (Liverpool), Andres Palop (Sevilla).


Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid), Carles Puyol (Barcelona), Juanito (Betis), Alvaro Arbeloa (Liverpool), Fernando Navarro (Mallorca), Raul Albiol (Valencia), Carlos Marchena (Valencia), Joan Capdevilla (Villarreal).


Cesc Fabregas (Arsenal), Andres Iniesta (Barcelona), Xavi Hernandez (Barcelona), David Silva (Valencia), Santiago Cazorla (Villarreal), Ruben de la Red (Getafe), Xabi Alonso (Liverpool), Marcos Senna (Villarreal).


David Villa (Valencia), Sergio Garcia (Zaragoza), Fernando Torres (Liverpool), Daniel Güiza (Mallorca)

[cteresa]

[quote name='Master Aune' post='1359081' date='May 17 2008, 12.48']Aragones team for the Euro. No Raul and Bojan.[/quote]

Interesting. No to the real old experience guy, and no to the really young promissing guy, middle ground I assume. Güiza would have to be called, but Sergio Garcia over Raúl ouch, that is insulting. we will see how that goes.

About Bojan, the thing seems a mess, either Barcelona putting pressure over that whole nationalistic bullshit ( specially applied to not-adults). I believe he played too much this year, he is very young and very small. But at his age, being present in one big national competition ( even if like Ronaldo in 94) looks to me better than playings loads of games against dunno the likes of Recreativo and Murcia. Ah, well Spain.

Speaking of which, this week there as official government statements that yes, Portugal is acting on a joint candidature with Spain for 2008. Reading between the lines looks to me that Spain is acting coy and seems likely to me they will do the same they did in the candidature for euro2004, which Portugal suggested joint candidature, Spain decided to apply on its own so Portugal went on its own as well ( You would not believe the sour grapes in spanish press afterwards). But for 2018 England´s candidature is looking very strong, neither Spain or Portugal on its own, specially against each other will get it - but together yeah, maybe, Portugal got strengths Spain hasn´t and can get some supports Spain will not, so there is a chance to take advantage of England´s weaknesses ( that proposal for the 39th extra league game did not fall at all well in either UEFA or FIFA. plus others...).

[Jon AS]

Sergio Garcia apparently scored more goals than Raúl (though Aragones probably would have kept him out no matter what), and Bojan is [i]very[/i] young and only has ten goals at senior level. Why not give him a couple more years? He'll still only be 19 in 2010.

[quote name='cteresa']Speaking of which, this week there as official government statements that yes, Portugal is acting on a joint candidature with Spain for 2008.[/quote]

Another co-hosted tournament? At least with a World Cup it wouldn't have too strong an impact on the number of available places, but is this really a good idea when there is obvious bad blood between the two parties? Admittedly, sentiments will hardly be as strong as between Korea and Japan, still...

[cteresa]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1359104' date='May 17 2008, 13.54']Another co-hosted tournament? At least with a World Cup it wouldn't have too strong an impact on the number of available places, but is this really a good idea when there is obvious bad blood between the two parties? Admittedly, sentiments will hardly be as strong as between Korea and Japan, still...[/quote]

Oh, there is not bad blood on itself, probably much less bad blood regarding football or anything between Spain and Portugal than within Spain or within Britain ;)

2018-2002 is 16 years, not that frequent, and joint candidatures are working for UEFA. There will be plenty more joint candidatures for 2018.

It could work - just pointing out we should be ready for them thinking they can pull it off on their own ( they can´t, not the world cup against England, but they will think they can. Footballing superiority complex , that is Spain. in everything. with maybe a hint of inferiority complex thrown in under it and a lot of internal tension. we are more pragmatic and maybe harder ). I think it can work, on its own Portugal will not be awarded 2018 ( the logistic rules putting out Boavista´s stadium and then we needing at least 3 more stadiums, but besides Setubal not clear where to put them), on its own Spain can organize it but they can not pull enough support that is more than England. Also Spain could use some different know-how about a few things ( regarding policing, stewards and the appropriateness of the throwing of water bottles and pigs´ heads during matches for example). There will be almost certainly a return to Europe. Other candidates would be Russia and Greece on their own, and Be-Ne-Lux together. A joint candidature Portugal-Spain would likely be the best of the lot. Only England would be likely to look better than it, and England will almost surely sabotage itself a little bit ( 39th league game, good one. That UEFA cup final in Manchester thing, going to be remembered) so it´s worth trying to run against them. Though IMO the odds of Spain deciding to go on their own are pretty high, it´s just the way they are ;)

[mormont]

Watching the FA Cup final just now... an advert for football it is not. It's genuinely worse than the UEFA Cup final on Wednesday. Kanu and Hasselbaink in particular seem to be contesting the 'most leaden-footed striker' award (I think Hasselbaink is edging it).

[Daeric]

Its still being a better one then the Arsenal Man U snorefest a few years back.

Through it hasn't being a thriller I've being mostly listening to the tv commentary while playing my DS

[Black Wizard]

Spain should have called up Carlos Cuellar. Unbeatable.



Chelsea for the European Cup!

Queen of the South for the Scottish Cup!

[Jon AS]

So Bremen take second place, Hamburg seal a UEFA Cup spot with the second highest Bundesliga victory of their history against Karlsruhe (incidentally, their highest, dating from the sixties, was also against the KSC. Love those little coincidences) and are joined there by Wolfsburg, of all clubs. That's going to be...interesting. Stuttgart go to the Intertoto Cup while Nürnberg go down (they'll be back soon enough) and one more team will get into the UEFA Cup through the fair play ranking.

Oh and Dortmund are officially the worst top flight team in the Ruhr area, which may be only of importance to people living there, but those poor souls tend to take their local rivalries seriously so that's got to sting a fair bit. My guess would be that Dortmund and Doll will part ways soon.

[Padraig]

Speaking of wingers. Spain have abandoned them also. I think the coach wants to be able to play Fabregas, Xavi and Iniesta at the same time, so no room for wingers. Lots of playmakers though. It'll be interesting to see what Loras thinks. Not a glut of Real players. More Barcelona players. But Liverpool and Valencia have the most. Times have changed. :)

I don't think Bojan had any cap, so doubt there was anything untoward about his non selection. He has plenty time and the Spain team is very talented without him. Not for the first time, in skill terms alone they probably have the best team in Europe.

As for the WC. England have the edge because they have a lone bid/ great stadiums and its been a long time since they held it last. OTOH T is right that the 39th game could mess things up for them but who knows how that will fall out. I don't think the UEFA Cup final will have any bearing though. At the same time, the decision wouldn't be made till 2011 IIRC. Long time to go. If Spain are interested in competing for it, I wouldn't be surprised if they went on their own either. But Greece on their own? Could they manage that?

[Calibandar]

About the non-selection of Raul and Bojan.

Bojan- Barca put pressure on the coach, asking him not to select him because he's still a child really, and asked for him to be given rest at this point in his career. Ther request was granted.

As for Raul, well at the risk of angering Ser Loras, the chance that he would be called up was minimal since he wasn't in the qualifying matches anymore either, and what with Spain having no dearth of strikers ( in fact they will probably bench either Villa or Torres as it is) , I fail to see why the coach would change his decision.

[Padraig]

Regarding Bojan. Didn't know that but makes sense as such.

[Daeric]

I didn't watch the second half of the FA cup final, but we made the mistake of letting the mother watch it. She doesn't really understand football all that well and well shout well done at the simplest of passes, add on any kind of excitment and it gets worse.

Tbh I had it pegged as going to penalties, I didn't think Cardiff would score but I couldn't see were Pompeys goal was going to come from either since Defoe was cup tied.

[mormont]

[quote name='SirRots' post='1359421' date='May 18 2008, 01.11']I didn't watch the second half of the FA cup final[/quote]

I did. Well, most of it. I fell asleep at about 70 minutes. :P

As for where Portsmouth's goal was going to come from, predicably it was from a horrendous error by Enckelman, which was far from his first (nor was it his last). If Cardiff had a decent 'keeper the two teams could have played all day without a goal. (James also had a couple of 'wtf are you doing?' moments, but he got away with them.)

[cteresa]

[quote name='Calibandar' post='1359342' date='May 17 2008, 21.55']Bojan- Barca put pressure on the coach, asking him not to select him because he's still a child really, and asked for him to be given rest at this point in his career. Ther request was granted.[/quote]

There are rumors and different stories, that there was a psychological evaluation and he is not mature, that Laporta does not want Bojan to go ( as context, a few months ago and last year, at this football competition for children in the algarve called Mundialito, both times Barcelona teams were ordered to not be present on the field for the playing of the spanish national anthem at finals they had gotten to. Last year it was 8 year olds IIRC, this year it was the pre-school 6 year olds). Just checking and while Bojan was called to play for Spain main team already a few months ago he was "sick" and could not make it. You guys see the potential for conspiracy theories here.... So hmmm.

Pod, I think Greece assumes if they organized the Olympics, they can manage a world cup - Portugal feels a bit of the same about the euros, just a couple more stadiums. A joint organization will be much more sensible, but in a pinch, if the situation ends up being the same as for the organization of euro2004, Portugal will very probably apply on its own. From the point of view of organization it will be a stretch ( definitive need for 3 new stadiums, Setubal and Madeira obvious, another not so clear; instead of no new stadiums being needed) but it would be workable. And Portugal has *some* advantages as well. Like winning a real world cup, competing to organize is not looking like a sure or that likely a thing, but it´s worth your best shot. I think FIFA is doing their very best to encourage everybody to present candidacies, they got so frustrated with Brazil winning without competition Blatter is now going around the world e promissing everybody they got a chance, just to make sure England does not take it for granted. And who knows, England might take it for granted, and the commercial aspects and requirements of their league might end up being harmful. Worth a shot.

PS - regarding spanish players, if Puyol is going, why not Raul? ;) Honestly Puyol this season, meh.

No wingers indeed - maybe injury was a part as well. But as I said, it´s a threatened breed almost everywhere.

Regarding playmakers, do you think they are? I am not reliable at all at specifics of english terms and none of the spaniards are what I instinctively call a playmaker a number 10 ( say Rui Costa, Deco, Zidane, now probably Kaká), they seem more goal to goal kind, getting possession and while they can go on attack, they always seem a bit more backwards ( like João Moutinho say) than what I call a playmaker. Central midfielders for sure, but playmakers, dunno if I would call it that as I mentally translate the term. They all seem to like the same sort of space, who will play and who can be moved more forwardlike? and is it just me or has Marcos Senna sort of been the most effective for Spain so far?