MMA 3:UFC 87 Recap

[Horus Ex Machina]

[quote name='Papirolle']Damn, Hansen vs Alvarez was the best match I've seen in a long while! Too bad Hansen didn't win, I really wanted him to, but the decision was fair.
Actually all of Dream 3 was a pleasant surprise. Several good fights and I love that it has that old Pride-feeling. The ring is so much better than that stupid cage.
They even got Bas Rutten commenting the fights, but I'm not sure that's a good thing anymore. He used to be the best, but now he seems too full of himself and it got tiring listening to him sometimes.
Let's hope Dream gets the attention it deserves and gets some good MW and HW fighters there.[/quote]Just wanted to get a new thread started off right.

Right now I've gotta put Alvarez as my pick to take it, and his only serious challenge looking forward will be Shinya Aoki. I'm more and more impressed with his effectiveness at LW [i](he was still a beast at WW)[/i], and he shows the versatility of a well-rounded MMA fighter, which you can't always say about wrestlers.

Thread's on!

[Ser Barry]

Will Barnett now make a living out of fighting average fighters and never stretch himself again? 3 fights in 18 months and not a decent one among them.

[Horus Ex Machina]

[quote name='Barry Emelianenko' post='1359748' date='May 18 2008, 14.01']Will Barnett now make a living out of fighting average fighters and never stretch himself again? 3 fights in 18 months and not a decent one among them.[/quote]
There are no excuses anymore. There are enough HW fighters outside of the UFC to get a good match. Barnett needs to step up, I agree.
[quote name='Enlightenment HK']Fuck it. I came up with the Kimbo/Mike fight months ago. I want royalties godamn it!

Just to add, sideshow or not, I think it would be a damned good idea for all parties involved. Fact is, there's nothing set, nothing planned, nothing even discussed. Just an answer to an apparent Q&A before the upcoming CBS fight. And the shit is getting reported on mainstream news. (right now Yahoo's cover story. I'm sure its elsewhere as well) Mike Tyson is a joke. Kimbo is unproven. But Tyson still commands attention and captivates the imagination while Kimbo is starting to. Something like this can't help but bring serious mainstream attention to the sport. Granted, not all of this attention will be good. But people will talk about it. And people will watch it. For EliteXC it could be a lifesaving goldmine. And for MMA in general? Jury's still out, but it could help with the mainstream success of the sport and potentially create a viable rival to UFC. (which I absolutely see as a good thing, PPV bitches!)[/quote] I can't really fault Elite XC for being shameless attention whores. UFC was like that once, and some think that it still is. The fact is that while they're trying to establish their brand, they'll do anything that they can to get eyeballs. I really can't wait until the sport is past these brand-wars and we can get to some real MMA, but until then...

That said, anyone who wants to short change Kimbo because of his lack of competition needs to chill. The man is a baby in this sport and needs to be given a chance to crawl before he can run.

[Analu]

[quote](which I absolutely see as a good thing, PPV bitches!)[/quote]
If Kimbo vs Tyson becomes a reality, most likely EliteXC will make it a PPV event. I really don't understand why going to a bar to watch it or splitting the $40 cost with your buddies is such a hardship, but if you're ever going to spend money on a PPV event, next weekends UFC 84 is [b]THE [/b]one to buy.

I'm in no way an MMA purist, but I think Kimbo vs Tyson is bad for the sport. Especially given reports that Tyson is close to 300 lbs, and seeing that his money will probably be guaranteed up front, I don't see him putting a lot of time in the gym training for this fight. That said, having just watched Tyson destroying Berbick and Spinks on ESPNHD Boxing Classics, I'd watch it for the sheer spectacle. And a spectacle is what it'll be.

ESPN just came out with their own MMA show and it needs support. You can watch it [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3398395&categoryId=2881270"]here[/url]. I think they're in the testing phase to see how much of an audience it gets, so try watch it then shoot off an email to [email protected] to show your support. Time to show ESPN the legion of ASOIAF MMA fans out there. All 3 or 4 of us :P

But seriously, write them an email. They claim they read every one and the more people that show an interest in MMA the more MMA coverage we'll see from ESPN.

[Ser Barry]

I look at the Lesnar/Coleman UFC Main Event and I realise that even the biggest promotion is putting on spectacles in order to sell fights.


Anyway, the biggest fight coming up in the next few months is the return of Cory Hill and we all know it. 'This is my zone, this is my home. No-one enters my zone, no-one enters my home.'

[Analu]

[quote name='Barry Emelianenko' post='1359778' date='May 18 2008, 12.05']I look at the Lesnar/Coleman UFC Main Event and I realise that even the biggest promotion is putting on spectacles in order to sell fights.[/quote]
True, but there are spectacles and there are spectacles. Lesnar's in the prime of his life, been training rigorously in an MMA gym for a couple years, and is taking it very seriously. Coleman's in the UFC HOF and was also a great PRIDE fighter. That fight's a spectacle wrapped around an inner core of real MMA fighters.

Tyson's not just over-the-hill, but over-the-damned-mountain. He's never shown any interest in real MMA training. May as well just make it a boxing fight, since neither one is going to do anything but let their hands go. It's just going to lead to more ridicule by Dana and cheap potshots by Chuck. If Kimbo were to establish himself with some wins vs quality MMA fighters, then I wouldn't be so reluctant to see him fight Tyson. Not that my opinion means anything to anyone involved in possibly making that happen.


I'm looking forward to the return of Buddy Roe, too. It's amazing to me that he can cut to 155. I'm a couple inches shorter and 20 lbs heavier than Hill and am considered pretty lanky, so I don't know how he manages it.

[quote]Will Barnett now make a living out of fighting average fighters and never stretch himself again? 3 fights in 18 months and not a decent one among them.[/quote]
His last fight was against Monson, wasn't it? Monson's more than decent. But I agree that they could've given him a better opponent than Rizzo for the upcoming Affliction card. A rematch with Aleks E would've been my preference.

There's so much MMA coming up in the next few weeks it's ridiculous. UFC 84, Affliction, EliteXC, WEC Faber vs Pulver, etc.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote]I really don't understand why going to a bar to watch it or splitting the $40 cost with your buddies is such a hardship, but if you're ever going to spend money on a PPV event, next weekends UFC 84 is THE one to buy.[/quote]

Sadly I have absolutely no friends who are the least bit interested in MMA. So that pretty much nixes the PPV (I'm not paying $40 for a 3 hour viewing myself) and the bar. I don't mind the concept of PPV. I'm just not big on the idea that nearly the entirety of ones product is available only via that route. You can see top tier boxing, quality WWE (if that's your thing), and every other sport without it. But if you want the upper echelons of MMA, PPV is largely you're only option. Seems excessive.

[Horus Ex Machina]

[quote name='BJ Penn' post='1359870' date='May 18 2008, 18.23']His last fight was against Monson, wasn't it? Monson's more than decent. But I agree that they could've given him a better opponent than Rizzo for the upcoming Affliction card. A rematch with Aleks E would've been my preference.

There's so much MMA coming up in the next few weeks it's ridiculous. UFC 84, Affliction, EliteXC, WEC Faber vs Pulver, etc.[/quote]
No his last fight was on that World Victory Road card. Him and Gomi signed with them instead of DREAM and Barnett says that he has issues with FEG. He fought a Japanese can.

[Ser Barry]

[quote name='Horus - Spider Silva' post='1360024' date='May 19 2008, 04.31']No his last fight was on that World Victory Road card. Him and Gomi signed with them instead of DREAM and Barnett says that he has issues with FEG. He fought a Japanese can.[/quote]

No, he fought Monson at the weekend. The Japanese can was the fight before. I just happen to think that Monson is also a can.

[Analu]

[quote name='EnlightenmentHK' post='1359911' date='May 18 2008, 14.31']Sadly I have absolutely no friends who are the least bit interested in MMA. So that pretty much nixes the PPV (I'm not paying $40 for a 3 hour viewing myself) and the bar. I don't mind the concept of PPV. I'm just not big on the idea that nearly the entirety of ones product is available only via that route. You can see top tier boxing, quality WWE (if that's your thing), and every other sport without it. But if you want the upper echelons of MMA, PPV is largely you're only option. Seems excessive.[/quote]
Sucks that none of your friends like MMA. Time to get new friends :P

Not that you need my advice, but if you were ever going to get any of them into it, it would be now. Maybe convince a couple to go to a bar this weekend to watch UFC 84 and the atmosphere and number of elite fights may sway them. You can be completely ignorant of MMA and still have a blast watching in a packed bar, with everyone erupting at the right moments. I still get chickenskin thinking back to when Rampage unleashed that powerbomb on Arona and having the entire room going absolutely bonkers. It was surreal.



Re. Barnett fighting cans

I guess I have a different interpretation of who I consider a can than you guys. Monson's an absolute beast on the ground. He has arguably the best ground game for a HW in all of MMA. And Yoshida being a Japanese can? He took Olympic gold in judo and has fought guys like Don Frye, Wandy, Cro Cop, Mark Hunt, Barnett. But if you guys consider them cans, then no problem. I'll just say I don't agree. They're somewhat boring to watch but not cans, IMO.

[Papirolle]

Yoshida is no can, he is just getting old, and it's been a long time since his last fight.

[Ken Stone]

I just read this article:

[url="http://mmajunkie.com/news/4374/the-ultimate-fighter-7-finale-in-high-def-slotted-for-three-hours.mma"]TUF 7 finale Card[/url]

Some interesting news. First off it will be in HD, which is awesome. That is one thing I really love about HDNet is seeing the fights in HD. The sound is also much better which makes for an amazing experience. Leg kicks seem a lot more damaging when you can hear the *crack* as they land.

The main event looks to be Kendell Grove v Evan Tanner, which is surprising. Isn't Grove on a three loss streak right now? I don't see how he can be a main event. Will this loss be the end of Grove in the UFC?

The rest of the card looks pretty meh to me really. The only other fight that really stands out is Spencer Fisher v Jeremy Stephens. Fisher is always pretty fun to watch. His boxing is so fast and fluid and he has an amazing defensive guard. It's like trying to punch gold fish in a barrel.

# Luigi Fioravanti vs. Diego Sanchez
# Finalist #1 vs. Finalist #2
# Spencer Fisher vs. Jeremy Stephens
# Jeremy Horn vs. Dean Lister
# Josh Burkman vs. Dustin Hazelett
# Marvin Eastman vs. Drew McFedries
# Matt Arroyo vs. TBA

[Ser Barry]

Barnett should be one of the top 3 HW around. To that end he should be consistently fighting top 10 guys with the odd top 20 thrown in. Not only is he not fighting that calibre of opponent but he isn't even putting himself in line to fight that sort of competition.

Re: Monson. His record is chock full of real cans. I can't pull out one decent win on his record. His gas tank is suspect, he lacks the speed to make up for his lack of height in the stand up and he lacks heart. Monson has to be the most over-rated HW in the world.

[Liffguard]

I'd forgotten how completely stacked this card was before I checked it out just now. I am very much looking forward to Machida schooling Ortiz like he's never been schooled before.

Also, how much money do you reckon I'd have to pay GSP to go up a weight class and take on Silva?

[Ken Stone]

[quote name='Caligua' post='1361902' date='May 20 2008, 08.10']I'd forgotten how completely stacked this card was before I checked it out just now. I am very much looking forward to Machida schooling Ortiz like he's never been schooled before.

Also, how much money do you reckon I'd have to pay GSP to go up a weight class and take on Silva?[/quote]

Interestingly enough they had a poll about that on MMAJunkies.com. Asking who wants this fight to happen. I thought it was pretty much a no brainer, right? I think it was 68% voted No! Crazy.

[Horus Ex Machina]

[quote name='Ken Stone' post='1361930' date='May 20 2008, 09.25']Interestingly enough they had a poll about that on MMAJunkies.com. Asking who wants this fight to happen. I thought it was pretty much a no brainer, right? I think it was 68% voted No! Crazy.[/quote]
I would be one of those 68%. There's no way I'd want to see either of those guys lose.

[Liffguard]

Who cares who would lose? It would be the most epic fight thus far in the history of the sport. Even Randy vs. Fedor (if that fight ever goes ahead) wouldn't be able to match it. I don't think we've ever seen two fighters with such a complete skill-set combined with such an elite level of athleticism. Watching those two go at it would be a glimpse at the future of the sport.

[benderschweiz]

[quote name='Caligua' post='1362114' date='May 20 2008, 11.16']Who cares who would lose? It would be the most epic fight thus far in the history of the sport. Even Randy vs. Fedor (if that fight ever goes ahead) wouldn't be able to match it. I don't think we've ever seen two fighters with such a complete skill-set combined with such an elite level of athleticism. Watching those two go at it would be a glimpse at the future of the sport.[/quote]

I'd pick five rounds of BJ Penn vs. GSP 2 over that one. Here's hoping BJ gets DW to agree to it after he handles Sherk.

UFC 84 Predictions

[b]BJ Penn[/b] vs. Sean Sherk
Wanderlei Silva vs [b]Keith Jardine[/b]
[b]Wilson Gouveia[/b] vs. Goran Reljic
Tito Ortiz vs. [b]Lyoto Machida[/b]
[b]Thiago Silva[/b] vs. Antonio Mendes

[Liffguard]

[quote]I'd pick five rounds of BJ Penn vs. GSP 2 over that one.[/quote]

I definitely wouldn't say no to that either. TBH, I think GSP has Penn's number at the moment. GSP's the better striker and wrestler, though Penn clearly has the better ground game. The main difference is in size and athleticism, GSP's naturally bigger and, let's face it, Penn's never been famed for his work ethic.

As for Penn vs. Sherk, I'll give it to Penn but it should be an interesting fight to watch. You've got Penn, a phenomenal technician not known for his fitness, against Sherk, a guy with solid technique but also a claim to fame as an unrelenting powerhouse. Penn's the better striker and grappler, Sherk is the better wrestler with fantastic positional skills. I'm just not sure how effective those positional skills will be against Penn, especially when he has to be constantly wary against submissions. In any case, I'm looking forward to it.

[GSP]

I'd hate to see GSP or the Spider loose, but I'd hate to never know for sure what would happen. I'd personally like to see GSP come out on top in such a dream match up but think the odd favours would be justifiably in Silva's camp based on the size difference (Silva's a huge middleweight, who could easily go Light Heavy according to most the keyboard warriors over on Junkie anyway) if nothing else. I think that whoever came out on top it'd be nervewrackingly exciting, and short or long, action packed. It's a wet dream fight, plain and simple.