World of Warcrack

[Relic]

[quote name='Stego' post='1383224' date='Jun 4 2008, 08.38']Dude, find a new guild. There are thousands that want tanks.

[url="http://www.lookingforguild.net/"]http://www.lookingforguild.net/[/url]


Have fun or change it up. There's no reason for you to be miserable.[/quote]


Or quit WoW and get a girlfriend. They are way more fun to grind.

[PhelanArcetus]

Working on the girlfriend aspect :) Though I don't think that requires quitting WoW, even with a non-WoW-playing girlfriend. Not playing non-stop, certainly. But quitting? Nah.

I enjoy WoW, I just am not enjoying the 25-mans. I don't see a different group changing that aspect, so I'm just out of 25s. 5s and 10s just feel better. Quicker, each member is more innately important to the run, I guess.

I also enjoy the greater flexibility of time. In addition to not having to leave work early, rush home, and buy takeout so as to be ready to raid at 7... it means that my Monday and Tuesday nights are not spoken for.

And just to clarify; my guild is fine, my guild is great. A portion of the guild (5 people total, in fact) are part of this raid group. Another couple members are part of other raid groups, and a few don't do any 25-mans at all. And periodically we put in some work to find another guild to ally with to do 25-mans; the last one fell apart after a few weeks, when that guild's leader went on hiatus, one of the main tanks decided to bring his warlock instead (and we were prioritizing tanks, so he'd gotten automatic T4 shoulders), and then the guild lost 2-3 key members including their raid leader over some internal drama.

[Relic]

[quote name='PhelanArcetus' post='1383506' date='Jun 4 2008, 11.12']Working on the girlfriend aspect :) Though I don't think that requires quitting WoW, even with a non-WoW-playing girlfriend. Not playing non-stop, certainly. But quitting? Nah.

I enjoy WoW, I just am not enjoying the 25-mans. I don't see a different group changing that aspect, so I'm just out of 25s. 5s and 10s just feel better. Quicker, each member is more innately important to the run, I guess.[/quote]


Well WotLK will be a good thing for you, then. Alot of people have wanted full 10 man raids available, myself included. You arent AS guild reliant on shit at that point.

As for the GF thing...ive yet to meet my ideal gamer chick. In fact i havent ever met a real gaming girl. Woe is me.

[BlueRose]

[quote name='Relic' post='1383516' date='Jun 4 2008, 08.19']As for the GF thing...ive yet to meet my ideal gamer chick. In fact i havent ever met a real gaming girl. Woe is me.[/quote]

We exist, I promise you. ;)


I wanted to join Phelan's guild, but the time difference is proving that I'd never get to raid with them, as their raids start while I am still at work. I'm nervous about just finding a random guild though, pugging never goes well, so I just cant imagine it being easy to find a guild with the right spots open, time frame, and content.

[Relic]

[quote name='BlueRose' post='1383620' date='Jun 4 2008, 12.20']We exist, I promise you. ;)[/quote]


yeah but you get scooped up SO fast =P

depending on the server size you should be able to find a guild that fits into your schedule. i had a demanding sched as well but managed to be in 2 BT guilds before i quit raiding.

[Tobin]

[quote name='Relic' post='1383629' date='Jun 4 2008, 12.25']yeah but you get scooped up SO fast =P[/quote]


Well, being a limited commodity has its advantages....and drawbacks, :stunned: ("No, I will not date you just so my sorcerer can hit level 10." :tantrum: )


Good tanks are always in need - think about some guilds around you that you see are doing well and apply to them. Or like Phel is thinking - join his guild and just go to the raids you can get home for - group with others when you can.
I'd hesitate to say do an open /LFGuild call, you can get some weirdos that way.



Had a speedfire Kara run last night - dropped Att within 8minutes of the first pull (accidentally targetted Midnight through the wall when we were finishing the last trash group). Had to pop my ankh on OZ when TMan kept chain dazing me for some reason (Hunter: "I don't have Pack on this time, I swear!"). Prince was nearly flawless except for our OT not getting out of range fast enough.
Total trip was 3hrs with missing only the two dragon bosses.
We had two healers and picked up another warlock for DPS - with only one near wipe. The difference was striking.

We're supposed to hit ZA tonight for the first time - so I'm trying to take notes from boss fight videos. I figure that we'll see how the first two bosses go before we think about pushing further or even attempting a timed run.

[PhelanArcetus]

While Akil'zon is better for timed runs, for getting started, go to the right for Nalorakk. You'll have a couple easy trash pulls, a rough one (depending on gear), a really rough one (again depending on gear), and then the boss. And he's easy. Two tanks stand in exactly the same place. One of them takes aggro until he turns into a bear, then the other taunts. He turns back to a troll, the other tank taunts. Collect loot. Healers keep both up and don't let the periodic silence in bear phase kill the tank.

Akil'zon is mostly about raid healing rather than tank healing, and moving into the center when told to, then spreading out.

I don't honestly know who on the server raids when, or how good, and how cool, they are. I just know the names of the top guilds and that The Renamed are all a bunch of jerks.

[Third Knight on the Left]

Yeah Bear boy is cake. The Bird boy is too really, but getting to him can be annoying.

[Relic]

[quote name='Soylent Brown' post='1384072' date='Jun 4 2008, 16.53']Second night in there and we cleared through the trash in about 75 minutes, but still couldn't get him down. A mixture of slow-to-react ranged dps and healers, and, I suspect, a general lack of dps in the raid. We'll get him eventually.[/quote]


if you want to raid seriously i think yer wasting yer time with that guild. but if you dont mind smashing your head into something ultimately unrewarding as downing VR then i guess it's not so bad. i, personally, did not have the patience to endlessly grind a single boss, especially if the guild was run/filled with little kids or spastic keyboard turners.

[Third Knight on the Left]

[quote name='Relic' post='1384108' date='Jun 4 2008, 16.31']if you want to raid seriously i think yer wasting yer time with that guild. but if you dont mind smashing your head into something ultimately unrewarding as downing VR then i guess it's not so bad. i, personally, did not have the patience to endlessly grind a single boss, especially if the guild was run/filled with little kids or spastic keyboard turners.[/quote]


Okay, how do you get to the last part of that paragraph from what he said? Well, i suppose keyboard turners can be intuited, but why spastic kids? :P

[Relic]

[quote name='Third Knight on the Left' post='1384129' date='Jun 4 2008, 17.54']Well, i suppose keyboard turners can be intuited, but why spastic kids? :P[/quote]


Well, i played with a few. Hyper teenagers and the like. Tends to lead to a lot of childish stuff and very little getting done in the end.

If im going to waste hours of my week playing a video game in an attempt to distract myself from boredom or whatnot, i might as well be progressing at a reasonable rate. 90 minutes of VR trash isnt even fun, it's fuckin aids imo.

[Lyanna Stark]

Well, we had the same. 2 hours trash to VR on the first night we did him, some 90 min the second. We play on a PvE RP server where the average age is about 25.

It doesn't help. :)

If you have people who cannot do what they are supposed to, it doesn't matter if they are 13, 25 or 35. The result is the same.

I had a fit of anger yesterday and seriously considered quitting raiding all together.

We had a gruul/magtheridon run schedules.

Actually managed to get first pull on time. Some idiot ninja pulls HKM on auto run. After that we ome shot it with zero deaths. We go get gruul in 10 growths with two people dying during the entire fight.

So far so good, move to Magtheridon, it looks good. All summoners down before maggie is out......and then it turns to shit.

People can't click, they can't own up to to the fact that they didn't click. The guy who is supposed to be "safety OT" on Maggie keeps pulling aggro off the MT despite being shouted at, Maggie turns around and cleave clickers and backup clickers. (It was decided we have a "safety OT" on Mags since we have had warriors tank him in the past, and they have a tendency to get crushed. We stuck a pally on him this time and it worked out really well. Except the druid OT starting hitting on Maggie the second the paladin did as well, and managed to outthreat him.)

We've already started relegating people who cannot do simple things like click or jump into the water, and I am tempted to just not let these people roll on ANYTHING AT ALL until they wake the fuck up. Honestly, sometimes I wish we had DKP so I could at least punish the dumb for being blazing idiots. As it is I just end up seething and humiliating them on TS.

The thing is, we have some really good DPSers, some really good tanks, some really really good healers.....and some utter blazing idiots. Question is, since we are casual, how to remove the dumbasses?

[Stego]

Anna, you need to calm down. It isn't life and death.

The only punishment ever required is to just stop bringing them to raids.


And I hope to god you aren't rolling on loot in raids, btw. :D

[Lyanna Stark]

Soylent: Ooh yes, I recognise your problems. :)


Tobin:
As for Bear boss, just make sure your healers are ready with consumables. They will be shocked at how hard he hits, if they are used to ZZzzzzzZZZZzzz-ing through Karazhan bosses. :P

Bear boss to heal: in human phase he hits like Nightbane, plus he cleaves the OT. In Bear phase he hits like Prince phase 2.

Have the charged ranged bandage. Also blow CDs when he is in human phase, since he takes more damage than in bear.
If you have a hunter, have him keep scorpid sting up at all times. Every missed hit from the boss is a blessing for the healers.

Also, have the healers spread out one to the left, one to the right and one in the middle and heal at max range. Bear dude silences, which can be lethal since he hits hard, if you have Karazhan geared people in there.

Eagle boss is easier to heal, although it can be harder for paladins and priests used to one target healing since there will be lots of general raid damage.

Lynx boss.....we tried it a couple of times without a hunter. One hit of frenzied lynx takes off 75% of the tank's health. After that we took a hunter. :P
Still a bitch to heal, but a bit better. If you have a pally, give your healers salv even if they are used to having BoW. The lynx add has a tendency to react very quickly to healing aggro and run off to bite a healer.

(I normally get healing aggro, fade and it goes to bite our poor resto shaman, who dies and has to ankh. :P )

We've taken the first three ZA bosses in a mix of KZ gear, badge gear and end game blues. The biggest problems for us so far have been:

1. Last pull before bear boss. One tank always dies here.

2. The gauntlet. Made SIGNIFICANTLY easier with a paladin tank. I don't condone riding through it naked and ressing at the end (SS, ankh etc) since I think if people can't do it properly, they should not get to the boss either, but I am old skool. :P

[Darian Frey]

RE Clickers on Maggie: I have....no words. It's so frustrating. One minute they seem to have learnt and the next.....right back to form. Grarrgh.

[Darian Frey]

[quote name='Stego' post='1384937' date='Jun 5 2008, 08.25']Anna, you need to calm down. It isn't life and death.

The only punishment ever required is to just stop bringing them to raids.


And I hope to god you aren't rolling on loot in raids, btw. :D[/quote]

1) We know it ain't life or death, but it IS a waste of our time if people can't/don't learn.
2) We can't pick and choose who we do/do not bring to our raids, since we don't have the luxury of numbers. It's a miracle we're in there at all. No Guild mergers in the offing here Steg.
3) Raid Leaders with common sense > DKP anyday.

[Stego]

P.S. I don't mean to tell you how to do things, but tanks exist in three forms for a reason. There is no circumstances in which a Paladin is not the distant third choice in theory on that fight. Granted, a warrior that gets crushed on a slow hitting boss is a troglodyte. But a warrior can devastate spam and pull threat off of a Pally at T4 level. (Granted, a tank that doesn't watch omen has issues.)

But the way you tell the story seems to say that your healing is poor.

-Why should a crushing blow matter to 7 healers on a single tank with no splash until 30%? It should be a yawn fest.

-As such, why not use a Druid? He may take crushes, but he'll take less hits and mitigate the damage a HELL of a lot better than a plate wearer at T4 level.

-As for cube clickers....... what was the deal? People not knowing their positions? Lag? Double clicks? You should have all the other tanks needed for the first phase be permanent clickers. They would never have to leave their spot.

[RaceBannon42]

One night clear of Hyjal last night. One wipe on Anetheron likely due to healers not spread out enough, 2 wipes on Archie. One shouldnt even count as for some unknown reason he ran right past the tank on the pull and one shotted our elemental shammy.
Then we had time left to clear Gruul's. Still havent seen a DST drop. I think its a myth.

[Lyanna Stark]

As for why the warrior ate a crushing blow...no idea. He did it around 15 sec after Maggie came out, before all the healers where on MT healing (topping up the raid, getting in position etc). He had his normal "Maggie comes out MT healers" (3) and it shouldn't be an issue. I heal this guy in ZA and KZ, and we had him MTing gruul last time. Wasn't a problem at all. suddenly he forgets to hit shield block or something and gets horribly crushed. I wasn't on MT healing at the time either, and I doubt it would have helped, since priests don't have instant heals. According to recount he took a 20k crushing blow around 15 seconds after Mags came out.

Maybe it was too late for him and he just got tired or some such. No idea. He lives in Easter Europe, so he is at least an hour, probably two, ahead of us. Making it 1 am for him and 11 pm for us. As for why....I haven't the faintest.

In the raid when we had our warrior MT, it was our last attempt of the night when he got crushed. Before that he was fine. Which makes it even odder.

Our pally tank normally raids with one of the high end guild alliance side, which is currently suspended until WotLK. He knows what he is doing, had excellent positioning and avoided random moves which would get melee cleaved. He is a tank we can trust to do his best.

As for the clickers......God Only Knows why they suddenly can't click. Our OTs (minus the druid who kept mangling Maggie the second he came out) were all clickers and seemed to manage well enough. The main problem we had seemed to be people who cannot click in time, who doesn't understand it, or no idea.

The last try we had worked really well, and people WERE clicking (I had swapped out some real idiots) and then......the druid OT outthreats the paladin after a bounce. Maggie turns around, cleaves 2 cube clickers and all the melee......the druid OT then runs off to the cube that is now empty. Everyone thought to click, but NO!! He decided to ignore clicking and instead combat res somebody. Cube goes unclicked. Raid wipes.

Cue me getting really, really pissed off and refusing another try due to people being idiots.


Re tanking. We had the pally tanking Gruul as well, with a druid OT taking hurtfuls and the warrior intervening. Worked really well. A paladin may not be the ideal tank on Maggie or Gruul, but due to some of the other people's total ineptness, he's sure doing well.

We normally stick a druid on HKM since the warriors get crushed and instagibbed there too. The druid seems to not be bothered much at all.

A good tank is hard to find. I try to keep the good ones close, regardless of class. :)

We had to probably perma bench one of the warriors from tanking. He shows up crushable, ignores every kind of advice and is generally a nuicance. Then you have the threat machines who have the most amazing awareness of their surroundings, a well rounded approach to their abilities and you go WTF? why can't they ALL be like this??

To be fair to our Eastern European warrior tank, his warrior is his first 70, he does his best to read up on theorycrafting and takes care to balance his stats. He always reads up on the fights and he never complains if he has to OT something or click a cube or whatever. He just quietly gets on with it, and normally he does it well. Just sometimes, due to whatever reason, he seems to fall asleep or lose the plot. :stunned:


Anyway, we are going to grind the faces of our raid on Magtheridon until they all scream for something else to do. :P
Serves them right for being thickies. :P

[Relic]

[quote name='RaceBannon42' post='1384994' date='Jun 5 2008, 09.00']2 wipes on Archie.[/quote]

that happens to even the best, i think. he can be a tricksy bird.

cube clickers - i thought they nerfed the shit out of mags recently.

i agree with stego, if your tank is in danger or dying on Mags then either its the healers, or the tank's gear choice.stick two pallies and a druid on him imo