FOOTBALL!

[Mathis]

I reckon that Raymond Domenech is a terrible manager. France got to the WC final despite him rather than because of him. The balance of talent available to the French squad is unparalleled in Europe IMO (goalkeepers aside). Great defenders, great midfielders (both central and wide men) and great strikers yet they never seem to click. I blame Domenech. We are talking about Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy and Holland as potential winners but no squad has the talent across the board that France has IMO.

I mean FFS Sagna, Evra, Clichy, Flamini, Trezeguet (for whatever reason) and Ben Arfa can't get near the team.

[Jorund]

[quote name='Mathis' post='1386049' date='Jun 5 2008, 21.41']I reckon that Raymond Domenech is a terrible manager. France got to the WC final despite him rather than because of him. The balance of talent available to the French squad is unparalleled in Europe IMO (goalkeepers aside). Great defenders, great midfielders (both central and wide men) and great strikers yet they never seem to click. I blame Domenech. We are talking about Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy and Holland as potential winners but no squad has the talent across the board that France has IMO.

I mean FFS Sagna, Evra, Clichy, Flamini, Trezeguet (for whatever reason) and Ben Arfa can't get near the team.[/quote]


Domenech is the best manager we had since 1998 . Just compare with what have done the previous ones with a much better team (2 losses 1 draw at first round of WC 02 against "lesser" teams) , France's appearance is the 2006 WC final is some kind of miracle. Our Euro qualification's group was a really hard one too and Domenech did very well managing older players and new comers.
And you can only take 23 players : Trezeguet haven't had a good match with the national team since 2000 , and probably is not a safe choice for penalties anymore. Ben Arfa is a two sided player : real good sometimes , and nonexistent the match after.

[Jon AS]

[quote name='Podezine Podane']Iceman is right though. People were saying the same about South Africa (even the Swiss and the Austrians had problems) but things seem to be coming together now. People are saying the same about Brazil. Ukraine and Poland only got the nomination a year ago. Way too early to get excited.[/quote]

I don't think things are quite on schedule in South Africa (recently read a wonderful conspiracy theory that Blatter is pushing for 6+5 because it takes away the spotlight from SA ;)) and there are still major doubts about Poland/Ukraine, but AFAIK the only time a big tournament was not held in the country it was orginally supposed to be held was in 1986. And in that case, Colombia announced several years earlier that they would not be able to host it.

[quote name='Mathis']I reckon that Raymond Domenech is a terrible manager. France got to the WC final despite him rather than because of him. The balance of talent available to the French squad is unparalleled in Europe IMO (goalkeepers aside). Great defenders, great midfielders (both central and wide men) and great strikers yet they never seem to click. I blame Domenech. We are talking about Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy and Holland as potential winners but no squad has the talent across the board that France has IMO.

I mean FFS Sagna, Evra, Clichy, Flamini, Trezeguet (for whatever reason) and Ben Arfa can't get near the team.[/quote]

Your Francophile views are noted and appreciated, though I think you underestimate Domenech. The glorious Bleus will once again rise to the occasion and sweep everyone before them like de Gaulle swept the Germans out of France!

Flamini might make it into the team if Vieira does not recover on time, though right now it is looking good on that front.

[The Inquisitor]

[quote name='Mathis' post='1386049' date='Jun 6 2008, 04.41']I reckon that Raymond Domenech is a terrible manager. France got to the WC final despite him rather than because of him. The balance of talent available to the French squad is unparalleled in Europe IMO (goalkeepers aside). Great defenders, great midfielders (both central and wide men) and great strikers yet they never seem to click. I blame Domenech. We are talking about Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy and Holland as potential winners but no squad has the talent across the board that France has IMO.

I mean FFS Sagna, Evra, Clichy, Flamini, Trezeguet (for whatever reason) and Ben Arfa can't get near the team.[/quote]

I disagree entirely.

France has suffered a considerable regression since June 2006. Among the favourites, they are the ones that have IMHO less of a chance.

They have no longer the best player of the world (you know who), Henry is a mere shadow of his former self, Viera also, Abidal has been a bad taste joke in the last 8 months, Makelele's stamina and positioning begin to show his age etc etc.

Moreover, Domenech is still playing the same system as 2 years ago sans Zidane... now Ribery is a good player and Nasri shows promise, but to even flirt with the thought of them leading their play from a compact and close knitted backbone towards a single reference upfront like Zizou did?!?! Come on... Just remember how well they did that they had to qualify for this in the last few matches and making it a do or die against Scotland. Scotland no less! (by the way, hats off to those brave lads... they deserved to be here)

Of course they can win, because the 4-6 usual suspects have enough quality to take it all, but this France is most certainly an inferior team to what it was 2 years ago.

[Paddy]

[quote name='Republika Hrvmaltska' post='1385728' date='Jun 5 2008, 22.10']They had the rugby at Croke Park while Lansdowne Road was being redeveloped - I'm sure they'd allow football if the deal was right.[/quote]
They do allow football. The Republic of Ireland football team has played all their home games there for about 2 years now.

[quote name='Black Wizard' post='1385745' date='Jun 5 2008, 22.21']It still causes a bit of controversy.[/quote]
No, it doesn't. There are a few moaners who complain, but their voice is not heard outside of grassroots GAA committees and the drunken hours in the pub.
This was a change that once it happened it would be accepted by most of those with negative feelings on the issue, because those feelings were to do with insecurity and once it's been shown to be fine, they no longer have a problem.

That and they like money.

So CR has said he wants to leave, but only if Madrid cough up the money to him and Man United.
I wonder what the Madrid fans think of that.
The figures I've heard touted are £200-300k a week and as much as £70m. Surely, even with the fantastic season he's had, that's too much cash?
The situation appears to be mostly unchanged (from my PoV anyway) from a week ago. This, by no means, means he'll go (it almost seems like more of a demand to Madrid).

[mormont]

Cali: hey, Scotland still have hopes and expectations!

We hope that we'll get to a finals, and we expect that we'll go out at the group stage after three dismal performances. ;)

But we don't bitch about it!

On France, I agree with Loras. The current French team have regressed. I think they're unlikely to win. Nothing's impossible, but they're not favourites in my book.

Greece are! :P

On CR, this is an odd one. I can't decide if he's being really smart or really stupid. On the one hand, it seems like a rather crude attempt to engineer a move... on the other hand, has he now created a situation where if Real don't follow through, he can credibly continue to play for Man U?

[The Inquisitor]

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1386331' date='Jun 6 2008, 10.46']So CR has said he wants to leave, but only if Madrid cough up the money to him and Man United.
I wonder what the Madrid fans think of that.
The figures I've heard touted are £200-300k a week and as much as £70m. Surely, even with the fantastic season he's had, that's too much cash?
The situation appears to be mostly unchanged (from my PoV anyway) from a week ago. This, by no means, means he'll go (it almost seems like more of a demand to Madrid).[/quote]

No Paddy, it changes everything don't delude yourself.

CR did what Real Madrid expected him to do: He went public and said clearly "I want to go to Madrid next season. Come get me"

The player wants to leave, Madrid want to get him and Man Utd and Madrid must sit down for the next 2 months and broker a deal, which is going to be heavy... around 65-80 million €.

This means that he is going to play in the Bernabeu next year, Man Utd and Madrid are forced to reach an agreement, and sincerely speaking those who are going to benefit the most are the red devils, they are going to land a record-shattering transfer fee that our stupid president is willing to pay. As you can see, I'm not to excited about this.

Just see how seriously Man Utd are taking this that in their webpage you can find the following article "[url="http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid=%7BB4CEE8FA-9A47-47BC-B069-3F7A2F35DB70%7D&newsid=6610991"]Barça join Ron race[/url]". That is, pulling the price tag up by threatening to offer CR to the highest bidder. (as happened with the Beckham saga)

CR is a goner from Man Utd. The player and Madrid have agreed terms, and both clubs will battle over the transfer fee.

[Padraig]

The thing about France is that they looked quite poor before the last WC also. Ireland were unlucky not to beat them in Paris in a qualifier and we should have got a draw in Dublin (but Henry scored a great goal). France only started playing in the 2nd half of the 3rd group game in the WC. Up to then they were still poor. And while the turnaround could be described as a miracle, they were only playing at the expected standard. Of course, they did have Zidane at that time and Henry was at his best. It will be interesting to see if Henry's form can be blamed on Barcelona or whether he can find it again, away from their stranglehold.

I'm wondering would Viera being injured be a bad thing. Bring in Flamini and put a bit of life in the squad. I would definitely fault Domenach for an over-reliance on the older players.

France were at their prime in 2000, so I wouldn't be hard on Lemerre. 2002 was a disaster but a lot of that was due to Zidane been injured. You could blame Lemerre for not having a plan B but I don't blame anyone for finding it difficult to get over the sudden loss of Zidane.

I agree Trezeguet is not a major loss. But, while they could drop out of the tournament with barely a whimper, they could also find the form that their players have the potential to show. I have an inkling they will produce. Playing Holland and Italy should bring out the best in them. (They beat Italy 3-1 in the qualifiers). A slow start can't be countenanced.

[quote]And in that case, Colombia announced several years earlier that they would not be able to host it.[/quote]
Because it was almost a war zone. A lot different from what is going on in Ukraine. I'm sure you are right that South Africa still has issues but there is hardly still talk about removing their hosting rights nowadays?

[mormont]

Pod: one major issue for France that you don't cover is their reliance on Makalele. Though he's a player I've always admired, he is just not the player he was two years ago, and the team don't seem to have a replacement of sufficient quality. I think this could be even more crucial than the absence of Zidane - at least the team know Zidane is gone and are not expecting anyone to replace him directly. Makalele is still there, but if they rely on him to play as he did in '06 they could be in trouble.

[Calibandar]

From the article on the Man U website, Real Madrid president Ramon Calderon:

[quote]"Ronaldo is an impossible signing. His club don’t want to sell him. We can do nothing if the club that owns him don’t want to sell. We never approach a player under contract. This is not Real Madrid policy and especially not with a club with whom we are such good friends.”[/quote]

Man U says they are determined not to sell and Madrid's president says they cannot cough up that much money. You've got to love that line from him about Madrid never approaching players who are still under contract though, I hear the Lord of Lies rearing it's ugly head.

On the other hand, my personal feeling is that if Ronaldo suddenly wants to go, and if I could find an article that links to him actually saying that yesterday, then I think a deal should be made. No sense in keeping a player against his will in the end. If he has to go through, I'd prefer he go to Barca.

Edit: Here is an article that does quote him saying that he wants to play for Madrid if they can pay him even more than the monstrous salary he is already getting. Take a hike then you greedy fuck.

[url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jun/05/manchesterunited.realmadrid?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront"]http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/ju...ed=networkfront[/url]

[Black Wizard]

[quote name='Podezine Podane' post='1385872' date='Jun 6 2008, 00.38']Heh. :P But yes, Ireland only has 2 stadiums. Both are in Dublin. We would be no use for any bid.[/quote]
No. There are 40,000+ capacity stadia in Cork, Thurles, Limerick and Kilarney. Add on the two in Dublin that's more than Scotland have.

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1386331' date='Jun 6 2008, 09.46']No, it doesn't. There are a few moaners who complain, but their voice is not heard outside of grassroots GAA committees and the drunken hours in the pub.
This was a change that once it happened it would be accepted by most of those with negative feelings on the issue, because those feelings were to do with insecurity and once it's been shown to be fine, they no longer have a problem..[/quote]
Ah I see. I was just relying on wikipedia and my own non-extensive knoweledge on the subject.

[Paddy]

[quote name='Black Wizard' post='1386450' date='Jun 6 2008, 13.19']No. There are 40,000+ capacity stadia in Cork, Thurles, Limerick and Kilarney. Add on the two in Dublin that's more than Scotland have.[/quote]
Those stadiums are largely made up of standing sections, which I'm pretty sure isn't acceptible for hosting major football tournaments.

The other problem is that as part of the deal to allow Rugby and Soccer play in Croke Park (and it was no small part of the agreement), no other GAA stadiums in Ireland are up for consideration for use in other sports.

So those aren't really an option.

[Zoë Sumra]

Let's pause for thought re. the Euros.

A lot of boarders have, in the past few weeks, spent time ragging the inhabitants and supporters of opposing football nations. I don't think that anyone here would even dream of descending to the level of [url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jun/06/poland.poland"]being pictured, Janos Slynt-like, holding up the opposition's severed heads[/url].

[Jon AS]

[quote name='Eloisa' post='1386507' date='Jun 6 2008, 15.22']Let's pause for thought re. the Euros.

A lot of boarders have, in the past few weeks, spent time ragging the inhabitants and supporters of opposing football nations. I don't think that anyone here would even dream of descending to the level of [url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jun/06/poland.poland"]being pictured, Janos Slynt-like, holding up the opposition's severed heads[/url].[/quote]

The funny thing is that the Polish newspaper in question belongs to the same German publishing house as the German tabloid "Bild", whose writers are unsurprisingly most vocal in their outrage about the Poles' churlish behaviour. Looks very much like a plot to generate sales to me.

[Padraig]

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1386459' date='Jun 6 2008, 13.35']Those stadiums are largely made up of standing sections, which I'm pretty sure isn't acceptible for hosting major football tournaments.[/quote]
Exactly. Although, since it was my local I did look up the capacity of Thurles. Its apparently the 2nd biggest in Ireland with a capacity of 53,500 and a seating capacity of 36,000. Which astonished me. One thing that didn't astonish me is that it lacks most modern amenities. :P

Mormont yes, fair point on Makalele. When I think of both him and Viera playing in the middle, i'm not sure why I was thinking France could squeeze through the group. :P Its going to be very tough.

[quote]I don't think that anyone here would even dream of descending to the level of [url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jun/06/poland.poland"][color="#f03e00"]being pictured, Janos Slynt-like, holding up the opposition's severed heads[/color][/url].[/quote]
Heh. :P Poor Beenhakker. He was very annoyed at the whole thing. Typical tabloid rubbish.

Edited to add:
[quote]The funny thing is that the Polish newspaper in question belongs to the same German publishing house as the German tabloid "Bild", whose writers are unsurprisingly most vocal in their outrage about the Poles' churlish behaviour. Looks very much like a plot to generate sales to me.[/quote]
Didn't know that. It certainly has generated a lot of publicity. It was in today's papers in Ireland.

[Mme Erzulie]

So, anyone up for playing some fantasy football during the Euros?

I've set up a league at www.euro2008.com called Westeros with 245557-39596 as the joining code. Anyone and everyone welcome.

If someone else has already set one up, I'll be happy to join that as well.

My team are called Athlete's Feet, and feature the following line-up:

[b]Cech

Mellberg - Materazzi - Corluka

Kranjcar - Ballack - Pirlo - Sionko

Torres - Nuno Gomes (yuck) - Klose[/b]

Sub: [b]Dellas[/b]

Anyone game?

[Black Wizard]

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1386459' date='Jun 6 2008, 13.35']Those stadiums are largely made up of standing sections, which I'm pretty sure isn't acceptible for hosting major football tournaments.

The other problem is that as part of the deal to allow Rugby and Soccer play in Croke Park (and it was no small part of the agreement), no other GAA stadiums in Ireland are up for consideration for use in other sports.

So those aren't really an option.[/quote]
Can't be too difficult to put in seats with the money they'd be getting for having football in the stadiums.



I have a fantasy Euro 2008 team on Yahoo:

[b]Frey[/b]

[b]Mertesacker[/b]-[b]Mellberg[/b]-[b]Carvalho[/b]-[b]Pogatetz[/b]

[b]Kranjcar[/b]-[b]Fabregas[/b]-[b]De Rossi[/b]-[b]Flamini[/b]

[b]Ronaldo[/b]-[b]Arshavin[/b]

[Paddy]

[quote name='Black Wizard' post='1386706' date='Jun 6 2008, 16.55']Can't be too difficult to put in seats with the money they'd be getting for having football in the stadiums.[/quote]
With seats they'd hold a LOT less people and like I said, there's no controversy over playing football in Croke Park, but if the suggestion was raised of using Semple Stadium, the Gaelic Grounds, Páirc Uí Chaoimh or Fitzgerald Stadium for Soccer, there would be uproar.
Like I said, the condition that the question never be raised for other GAA grounds was a big part of getting the County Boards to agree to allow Croke Park to be used.

It wont happen :)

[Black Wizard]

A Scotland and Ireland bid would never work anyway. The stadia just aren't good enough or don't exist.

[Padraig]

[quote name='Black Wizard' post='1386798' date='Jun 6 2008, 17.49']A Scotland and Ireland bid would never work anyway. The stadia just aren't good enough or don't exist.[/quote]
Yes. The best Ireland can hope for is a CL or a UEFA final sometime. :)

And i'll join your league later Mme. I have signed up. Just need to get my confirmation email.