oxmix Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 My speculation runs like this. Genetics are way important is Westeros. In fact, the noble houses pass down characteristics of their totems. The Freys produce weak males who everyone hates. If the Young Wolf had married a Frey, his male heirs would have been sniveling curs. House Stark would have lost everything that made it admirable. With this understanding, Robb's agreement to marry a Frey was incredibly short sighted. He was trading all the future generations of Starks for one war. It would have been better for him to bend the knee to his father's murderer than to do that. Contrast the Freys to the Westerlings, who have little wealth or power, but are notable for the nobility of their bloodline. The Robb/Jayne baby will be kick-ass when he grows up. Take the long view. Wars get won and lost. All kings die. Castles get rebuilt. A Frey is a Frey forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Stark Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 That's assuming the child reaches adulthood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockroi Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Quite the opposite. The marriage vow was a great move. He marries himself to a powerful house, he gets an heir who he will foster at Winterfell (he will be a Stark, not a Frey) and he gets to actually HAVE a chance of winning his war. There was absolutely no up-side in marrying Jayne. Zero. It was a dumb idea and one made by a ruler who never knew how to deal with his friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shewoman Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 We don't know that Jeyne was ever pregnant by Robb, and if she did give birth to his child I don't think it would be allowed to live very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dothwacky Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Ah yes, snivelling cur child of Frey or backstabbing dealer child of Westerling... I don't find Robb's genes particularly redemptive either... :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlada Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='oxmix' post='1390228' date='Jun 9 2008, 18.49']The Freys produce weak males who everyone hates.[/quote] You're wrong.There are strong Freys(from Walder's third wife,from Crakehall family for instance),there are also well liked Freys,like Olivar and Perwin.Yes some of them are pretty much hated by everyone,but let's face it,they're extremely large family.It would be impossible for everyone to be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwill Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='Shewoman' post='1390308' date='Jun 9 2008, 10.24']We don't know that Jeyne was ever pregnant by Robb, and if she did give birth to his child I don't think it would be allowed to live very long.[/quote] Jeyne's mother saw to this remember? All those "fertility" drinks she made for her daughter made certain that no little Stark kings would be growing in her belly. As to the Frey genetics... Well there are extremes as vlada said. The difference between Black Walder and Peter Pimple for example. One is strong and forcefull (if morally questionable) and the other is (was now :thumbsup:) a weak boy. No the Freys were not such a bad deal until Robb mucked it all up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Stark Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='Ironwill' post='1390453' date='Jun 9 2008, 14.23']Jeyne's mother saw to this remember? All those "fertility" drinks she made for her daughter made certain that no little Stark kings would be growing in her belly. As to the Frey genetics... Well there are extremes as vlada said. The difference between Black Walder and Peter Pimple for example. One is strong and forcefull (if morally questionable) and the other is (was now :thumbsup:) a weak boy. No the Freys were not such a bad deal until Robb mucked it all up.[/quote] Where is there proof that jeyne's not pregnant. You are making the assumption that her mom would be giving her moon tea. But i doubt it. The Westerlings had too much invested not to fully support Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxmix Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='Ironwill' post='1390453' date='Jun 9 2008, 14.23']Jeyne's mother saw to this remember? All those "fertility" drinks she made for her daughter made certain that no little Stark kings would be growing in her belly.[/quote] Oh I remember. But you have it backwards. Jayne's mom gave Jeyne fertility drinks (no quotes around fertility) because she wanted a Stark grandson. She hates and fears Lanisters, so she lied to them about what she did. Sybel Spicer was an excellent catch for the Gawan Westerling. She's a wise woman, and foresighted. Note the significance of those two names by the way. Sybel suggest sibyl and Gawan suggests Gawain. The sibyl probably knows her grandson's destiny. My guess is he'll get some help along the way from his Uncle Raynald, the Blackfish of the Westerling clan. If I'm right, the Starks will rise again, and the Westerlings will become a great house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocBean Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='oxmix' post='1390228' date='Jun 9 2008, 11.49']My speculation runs like this. Genetics are way important is Westeros. In fact, the noble houses pass down characteristics of their totems. The Freys produce weak males who everyone hates. If the Young Wolf had married a Frey, his male heirs would have been sniveling curs. House Stark would have lost everything that made it admirable. With this understanding, Robb's agreement to marry a Frey was incredibly short sighted. He was trading all the future generations of Starks for one war. It would have been better for him to bend the knee to his father's murderer than to do that. Contrast the Freys to the Westerlings, who have little wealth or power, but are notable for the nobility of their bloodline. The Robb/Jayne baby will be kick-ass when he grows up. Take the long view. Wars get won and lost. All kings die. Castles get rebuilt. A Frey is a Frey forever.[/quote] that was just plain... Awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwill Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='Tyrion Stark' post='1390816' date='Jun 9 2008, 12.51']Where is there proof that jeyne's not pregnant. You are making the assumption that her mom would be giving her moon tea. But i doubt it. The Westerlings had too much invested not to fully support Robb[/quote] You are joking right? [quote]Jamie turned to the daughter. "I am sorry for your loss. The boy had courage, I'll give him that. There is a question I must ask you. Are you carrying his child, my lady?" Jeyne burst from her chair and would have fled the room if the guard at the door had not seised her by the arm. "She is not," said Lady Sybell, as her daughter struggled to escape. "I made certain of that, as your lord father bid me."[/quote] The Lady Sybell had been conspiring with lord Tywin since Robb deflowered her daughter. So either Tyrion and oxmix are being sarcastic or you guys missed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxmix Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='Ironwill' post='1390927' date='Jun 9 2008, 17.49']You are joking right? The Lady Sybell had been conspiring with lord Tywin since Robb deflowered her daughter. So either Tyrion and oxmix are being sarcastic or you guys missed something.[/quote] There are Jeynes and then there are Jeynes. Like the man says, see with your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwill Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='oxmix' post='1390950' date='Jun 9 2008, 14.05']There are Jeynes and then there are Jeynes. Like the man says, see with your eyes.[/quote] :huh: I'm sorry you lost me. Please explain to me what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miriel Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='Ironwill' post='1390970' date='Jun 9 2008, 18.16']:huh: I'm sorry you lost me. Please explain to me what you are talking about.[/quote] Somewhere in the series, Catelyn thinks to herself that Jeyne has good hips, then later Jaime sees her and thinks how narrow her hips are. (Or vice versa). From this seeming inaccuracy has sprung lots of speculation that Jeyne has been switched [i]a la[/i] Jeyne Poole=Fake Arya heading North to wed the creepy Bolton. Or, GRRM just forgot his earlier description. Or, most likely in my opinion, different characters just see people differently. The story will never end if we are still to introduce a whole Jeyne-is-pregnant-and-has-been-switched plot line. Her story-line was interesting for the downfall of King Robb (sob) but now is done. I think we have seen the last of her -- (although I am hoping the Blackfish springs her in a - hopefully quick- ending to her story-line). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwill Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='miriel' post='1391011' date='Jun 9 2008, 14.37']The story will never end if we are still to introduce a whole Jeyne-is-pregnant-and-has-been-switched plot line. Her story-line was interesting for the downfall of King Robb (sob) but now is done. I think we have seen the last of her -- (although I am hoping the Blackfish springs her in a - hopefully quick- ending to her story-line).[/quote] Ah, I see. That is one cracked pot I had missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocBean Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 if she did get pregnant, how far along would she be at this point??? how much time has passed since Robb "said his goodbyes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogbebaba Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 [quote name='miriel' post='1391011' date='Jun 9 2008, 18.37']Somewhere in the series, Catelyn thinks to herself that Jeyne has good hips, then later Jaime sees her and thinks how narrow her hips are. (Or vice versa).[/quote] I thought catelyn said she had narrow hips and the burthing would hard on her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackfish Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 ^ That was Roslyn Frey with the narrow hips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the silent speaker Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I don't think Jeyne is out of story yet; if she were, Martin would probably have dropped her off at the Red Wedding. That said, I don't believe the Jeyneswitch theory, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogbebaba Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 [quote name='Lady Blackfish' post='1393182' date='Jun 10 2008, 22.22']^ That was Roslyn Frey with the narrow hips.[/quote] ok yeah your right now i remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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