Battlestar Galactica: Frakking Hard Since 1978

[Lord of Oop North]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1410124' date='Jun 21 2008, 22.51']Oh my God. I thought [url="http://jimsmash.blogspot.com/2005/10/monkey-space-dog.html"]this[/url] was just an urban legend.

That explains why the original series fans hate the new series so much. Not enough [b]MONKEY-SPACE-DOG[/b] action for them![/quote]

I love it. Yes! So rad!

[Brude]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1404192' date='Jun 18 2008, 11.59']1) There is a dome-like building on Ellis Island that could be the collapsed dome we see at the end of the ep (however, there is no bridge between Ellis and Manhattan).[/quote]
If it is New York we are not seeing it from the SW, which is the direction of Ellis Island to Manhattan - the island would be on the left side of the frame and not the right if that were so. Also there is no bridge on that side of Manhattan anywhere near the southern tip of the island. The George Washington Bridge is about 10 or 12 miles north near the northern tip.

[quote name='Werthead' post='1404192' date='Jun 18 2008, 11.59']The bridge could be the Brooklyn Bridge and our heroes are standing in Brooklyn Heights. This is supported by various photo comparisons, but there is an issue that from Brooklyn Manhattan proceeds much further to the right than in the shot at the end of the ep. However, you can see skyscrapers actually in the water to the right of the island, so it's possible that northern Manhattan is flooded. Brude even suggested how it was possible: much of that part of the island is landfill, and if a nuke went off in the right area it would destroy the barriers and allow the island to be flooded. However, I [i]seriously[/i] doubt that the writers put that much thought into this.[/quote]
I do still think Manhattan should continue farther right, [url="http://www.imgdump.info/img-bsgpano02-129553.htm"]past the bridge tower[/url] but I could be wrong about that. Been a while since I've been down that area and it's not terribly convenient to me either. Here's [url="http://bp1.blogger.com/_mlPoGU4VqSk/R8gdyXJa5FI/AAAAAAAABug/iztSoFt08pE/s400/new+york+1775.jpg"]a really old map[/url] of the the southern tip of Manhattan from back when the entire city was just a part of that area - apparently this is a Revolutionary War era map according to the site I found it on. [url="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=brooklyn+bridge&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=42.224734,76.992187&ie=UTF8&ll=40.70758,-73.993006&spn=0.039624,0.075188&t=h&z=14"]Here it is today from Google Maps.[/url] It sure does look like the Brooklyn Bridge structurally, though.

Edit: If you do a street view on google maps [url="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=furman+st.+and+cadman+plaza+west+brooklyn+new+york&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=0.010428,0.018797&layer=c&ie=UTF8&ll=40.703871,-73.994046&spn=0.002477,0.004699&t=h&z=18&cbll=40.702961,-73.994628&panoid=mUI2gi7rYdB8lfaCQUi0cA&cbp=1,0,,0,5"]from here[/url] right where Cadman Plaza turns and becomes Furman St. you can approximate the location of the final shot of the half-season. Unfortunately, there's a building right in the way of the view I want to examine so I can't see what Manhattan looks like under the bridge there.

And no, as far as I know the oldest buildings in Brooklyn are from the 1600's, including the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyckoff_House"]Wyckoff House[/url] (the oldest building in New York City) and [url="http://theoldstonehouse.org/"]The Old Stone House[/url], which is a few blocks from where I live and has a pretty amazing history but still not so historic as a 4,000 year old temple erected by humans that came from another solar system. :)

[quote name='Werthead' post='1404192' date='Jun 18 2008, 11.59']3) There is a square, artificial-looking island just to the left of the main one with what looks supiciously like a pedastal on top. There is a strong theory that this is Liberty Island with the statue missing.[/quote]
If it is NYC, that is not Liberty Island. Liberty Island would farther to the left and farther distant, probably obscured by the fog in that shot. What it could be, though, is the remnants of [url="http://www.thebattery.org/castle/"]Castle Clinton[/url] in Battery Park. Though it is now attached to Manhattan, at one time the Battery was a fort built on a small island just off the southern tip. If all around it crumbled, eroded away over time and all that is left is the bedrock then the island might become separate from the rest of the city again. [url="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/07/28/nyregion/29castle1.650.jpg"]Here's a drawing[/url] of southern Manhattan from when Castle Clinton, near the lower right-hand corner, was still separate from the rest of the island. [url="http://66.230.220.70/images/post/nycbw/033.jpg"]This picture[/url] gives a good idea of how the land was filled in around the fort to make Battery Park.

[Merentha]

[quote name='mcbigski' post='1407157' date='Jun 19 2008, 21.28']My favorite theory circa season 2 or so was that Gaeta wasn't a human. He wasn't a skinjob, exactly, more like a physical avatar of God, sent to help guide the remnant of humanity to its destiny. He's the guy that plotted all the jumps, controlled traffic within the fleet, reported on Dradis contacts, gave Boomer the coordinates that led them to Kobol etc.[/quote]Huh, my friend and I had the exact same idea, though we were more joking about it.

[Wouter]

Did Gaeta really gave those coordinates to Boomer, or did her Cylon subconscious give those? It was a curious scene, with her being angry at Gaeta for letting her jump so close to the surface (doesn't sound like Gaeta, usually very thorough in his job). Also, Boomer immediately knew that Kobol wasn't Earth and "much more important", as she put it. Might yet become true; Kobol seems a good place to settle (better than the scorched Earth and the recently nuked colonies) on condition that the Cavil faction is neutralised or peace can be reached between all Cylons and the humans.

[Brude]

I've thought Gaeta was a Cylon from the beginning and still think he's a top choice for the final one.

Wasn't he the one that Baltar was going to say was a Cylon who put that device on the bridge in the first episode (or was it the mini-series)?

[Wouter]

How do you explain D'Anna's "there are four Cylons in the fleet", then? Gaeta would be #5.

[Werthead]

[quote name='Wouter' post='1410466' date='Jun 22 2008, 16.17']Did Gaeta really gave those coordinates to Boomer, or did her Cylon subconscious give those? It was a curious scene, with her being angry at Gaeta for letting her jump so close to the surface (doesn't sound like Gaeta, usually very thorough in his job). Also, Boomer immediately knew that Kobol wasn't Earth and "much more important", as she put it. Might yet become true; Kobol seems a good place to settle (better than the scorched Earth and the recently nuked colonies) on condition that the Cavil faction is neutralised or peace can be reached between all Cylons and the humans.[/quote]

The problem is that when people set foot on Kobol, "A price has to be paid in blood". For example, Crashdown died when Tyrol's crew went down to Kobol and Elosha died when the rest of them went down there later. I'm guessing this makes Kobol less attractive.

There's also the question of how far they are from Kobol, but someone on the Sci-Fi forums cleverly used the distances that the Raptors could travel with the Heavy Raider computer plugged in in the Season 2 finale, and how far Starbuck could travel with the Raider in the Season 1 finale, to work out that the Cylons could probably travel from Earth to the Colonies or Kobol in just a few days, maybe a couple of weeks at the absolute most. Since we can assume that there is no distance limitation on the jump drive (since this is the only way we can explain how 70-odd ships designed for travel in just one star system can jump a dozen or so light-years at a time), only a limitation on how far their computers can plot a jump, and the Cylons can plot much bigger jumps, there should be no problem with Team D'Anna guiding the humans back to Kobol or the Colonies if they wished to go there.

Interesting question I don't think has been raised before:

SPOILER: BSG

Lucy Lawless only signed on for 3-4 episodes, meaning that Three presumably dies (for good) in the first episode or the first two episodes back. What are the odds that the Last Cylon kills her to protect his or her identity?

[Wouter]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1410483' date='Jun 22 2008, 17.39']The problem is that when people set foot on Kobol, "A price has to be paid in blood". For example, Crashdown died when Tyrol's crew went down to Kobol and Elosha died when the rest of them went down there later. I'm guessing this makes Kobol less attractive.[/quote]
This seems like superstition to me, though. People died on New Caprica and on the Algae planet, too. That's what happens when you encounter Centurions who are planning to kill you. If there is peace with the Cylons (or they have been otherwise taken care of), there is no reason why Kobol wouldn't be safe, at least no less safe then Earth or New Caprica. Allthough you may be right that for the more religious colonists, there may be a bit of a taboo concerning settling on Kobol.

[quote name='Werthead' post='1410483' date='Jun 22 2008, 17.39']There's also the question of how far they are from Kobol, but someone on the Sci-Fi forums cleverly used the distances that the Raptors could travel with the Heavy Raider computer plugged in in the Season 2 finale, and how far Starbuck could travel with the Raider in the Season 1 finale, to work out that the Cylons could probably travel from Earth to the Colonies or Kobol in just a few days, maybe a couple of weeks at the absolute most.[/quote]
Yeah, going to Kobol or even Caprica seems a trivial task if the FTL drive can be steered by the powerful Cylon nav computers. If they want to go to Kobol, distance isn't going to stop them.

[quote name='Werthead' post='1410483' date='Jun 22 2008, 17.39']Interesting question I don't think has been raised before:

SPOILER: BSG

Lucy Lawless only signed on for 3-4 episodes, meaning that Three presumably dies (for good) in the first episode or the first two episodes back. What are the odds that the Last Cylon kills her to protect his or her identity?

[/quote]

SPOILER: BSG

Lucy Lawless said that they got everything filmed before the writer's strike started, and as "sometimes a great notion" was the last episode done before that, this would be her last episode. Unless she returns in a much later one, but that seems very unlikely. So, I agree she will die. I think the odds of the final Cylon killing her all very low however; after all, according to D'Anna it isn't in the fleet, and while it could be on the baseship, if so it is very likely unaware of its nature (otherwise D'Anna would have wanted it to stay on the baseship, as she wanted the other 4 to join the Cylons there). If it doesn't know its identity it doesn't need to protect it either. I think the final Cylon is either presumed dead or Boomer anyway, and then it is simply out of reach to kill D'Anna.

So how will she die? Another internal Cylon conflict could do it (perhaps Tory makes a power grab), or Anders, Tigh or Tyrol feels they have to settle an account with this three, or it is simply a colonial who isn't all that happy with this blanket pardon for the Cylons who killed so many. Or she may not be murdered after all, and die in some other way (suicide? accident?)

[Werthead]

The last podcasts are up.

Infuriatingly vague. RDM says that the island-city looks like Manhattan and looked a lot more like in earlier versions, but he doesn't come out and say it is Manhattan. He does constantly refer to the planet as Earth though.

Sigh. But it's going to keep the fans happy arguing and debating for the next six months.

[Diva]

I'm an avid TWOP reader (not trying to pimp another site, but if you like indepth analysis of BSG, just start reading Jacob's recaps - history, philosphy, comparative religion, meta myth, quest narrative, hero's journey etc - they are spectacular), and Jacob said he had from one of the producers - I'm guessing RDM but not entirely sure - that it is definitely NOT New York

and I can tell you that if it is supposed to be Sydney then they have pretty much failed to get it looking anything like the real thing. Speaking as a sydneysider and as someone who used to work at the opera house, the shape of the foreshore is wrong, and my partner said the bridge is the wrong shape (he used to work at Bridge Climb, where one can climb the arch of the Sydney Harbour Bridge).

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1410483' date='Jun 22 2008, 11.39']The problem is that when people set foot on Kobol, "A price has to be paid in blood". For example, Crashdown died when Tyrol's crew went down to Kobol and Elosha died when the rest of them went down there later. I'm guessing this makes Kobol less attractive.[/quote]

Honestly, though, if I were a member of the fleet, that wouldn't matter a lot to me. It seems logical to conclude that if what we believed about Earth is untrue, then surely this curse (which comes out of the same mythology) is also bullshit.

[Werthead]

[quote name='Diva' post='1413835' date='Jun 25 2008, 04.35']I'm an avid TWOP reader (not trying to pimp another site, but if you like indepth analysis of BSG, just start reading Jacob's recaps - history, philosphy, comparative religion, meta myth, quest narrative, hero's journey etc - they are spectacular), and Jacob said he had from one of the producers - I'm guessing RDM but not entirely sure - that it is definitely NOT New York[/quote]

Possibly. However, it looks more like NYC than any other city, it looks more like the Brooklyn Bridge than any other bridge and RDM made a point of mentioning Manhattan in the podcast. It may not be [i]our[/i] New York, but it's certainly supposed to be reminiscent of it.

[quote name='Spiro T. Agnew' post='1414158' date='Jun 25 2008, 13.21']Honestly, though, if I were a member of the fleet, that wouldn't matter a lot to me. It seems logical to conclude that if what we believed about Earth is untrue, then surely this curse (which comes out of the same mythology) is also bullshit.[/quote]

How is what they know about Earth untrue? There was clearly a human civilisation there, so the 13th Tribe did get there, they just blew themselves up at some point down the road. I don't see how that contradicts their mythology at all.

Yeah, a lot of people in the fleet would probably risk the return to Kobol, but a lot of others, give how that certain mystical elements have been confirmed by events in the series, would probably argue against a return. And, more to the point, Team Cavill knows where Kobol is, whilst we presume that he doesn't know where Earth is (although I'd guess he finds out at some point).

[Brandon Stark]

[quote]How is what they know about Earth untrue? There was clearly a human civilisation there, so the 13th Tribe did get there, they just blew themselves up at some point down the road. I don't see how that contradicts their mythology at all.[/quote]


And if the prophecies were meant to lead the Cylons and Colonials to Earth together so that the example of the 13th tribe and its subsequent self-destruction could be used as the lynch-pin for a single, cooperative society...it might just work.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1414171' date='Jun 25 2008, 08.37']How is what they know about Earth untrue? There was clearly a human civilisation there, so the 13th Tribe did get there, they just blew themselves up at some point down the road. I don't see how that contradicts their mythology at all.[/quote]

I had gotten the impression from somewhere that Earth was a promised place of refuge in Pythia. I could be wrong, of course.

[Swordfish]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1414171' date='Jun 25 2008, 05.37']How is what they know about Earth untrue? There was clearly a human civilisation there, so the 13th Tribe did get there, they just blew themselves up at some point down the road.[/quote]


or got blown up by someone/something else.

[mcbigski]

Yes, I don't think we should let the Planet of the Apes parallels blind us to the possibility that it was the damned dirty toasters that nuked Earth instead of the 13th doing themselves in.

[Werthead]

[quote name='Spiro T. Agnew' post='1415146' date='Jun 25 2008, 23.25']I had gotten the impression from somewhere that Earth was a promised place of refuge in Pythia. I could be wrong, of course.[/quote]

I think it was, but for the 13th Tribe, not necessarily for the Colonial Fleet.

The 'promised land' mentioned in Pythia was not equated with Earth in the text, everyone just assumed it was.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1415236' date='Jun 25 2008, 19.39']I think it was, but for the 13th Tribe, not necessarily for the Colonial Fleet.

The 'promised land' mentioned in Pythia was not equated with Earth in the text, everyone just assumed it was.[/quote]

Perhaps not. In the wake of the initial shock, though, I'm not sure people would be that careful in their exegesis.

[Wouter]

In the podcast for the hub, there is some confirmation about Boomer:

SPOILER: BSG

RDM: Boomer did, in fact, survive

[Werthead]

[quote name='Wouter' post='1415370' date='Jun 26 2008, 02.27']In the podcast for the hub, there is some confirmation about Boomer:

SPOILER: BSG

RDM: Boomer did, in fact, survive

[/quote]

I think Jane Espenson had confirmed that in an interview:

SPOILER: BSG

She also heavily intimated that Cavill downloaded to another resurrection ship and also survived.