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Dragon Age


Werthead

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It's a bit of a misstep but hardly fatal. Hopefully by this time tomorrow we should have the trailer and if it's awesome, it will silence the critics.

But BioWare have to know they're going to get flak for DRM, and unless EA change their stance we know it's going to be on the game as well.
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I think it's a bit premature to blast Bioware just yet. Yes, their timing isn't as good as Blizzard's with Diablo 3, but it's no big deal. And one has to allow for an increased amount of ineptitude on their part due to EA's interference. I'll wait for the trailer before firing on Bioware. And if they want to make a sequel to Dragon Age, so what? It'd be no different from what they're doing with Mass Effect, which rocks all on its own.
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Oh, I'm not blasting Bioware as a whole. Or even Dragon Age, which I am hoping will be a great game. And in the end it isn't that big of a deal. But to call what the PR did and how they are handling the backlash anything other than a marketing failure is foolish.
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[quote name='Krafus' post='1435423' date='Jul 10 2008, 15.32']And if they want to make a sequel to Dragon Age, so what? It'd be no different from what they're doing with Mass Effect, which rocks all on its own.[/quote]

The thing about Mass Effect though is it's simply titled [i]Mass Effect[/i] not [i]Mass Effect: The Beginning[/i]... it tells a complete story arch in itself as all Bioware RPGs have before it. The change in the Dragon Age name --at least in my mind-- implies that may not be the case with this game. At the very least I think it was a bad choice in subtitles :P

You know what Bioware game I 'd like to see a sequel for: Jade Empire. Seriously, that game's far too underrated and with all the other projects Bioware has going on right now, I'm afraid Jade Empire 2 will never be made :(
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[quote name='hALo BEndeR' post='1435694' date='Jul 10 2008, 17.01']You know what Bioware game I 'd like to see a sequel for: Jade Empire. Seriously, that game's far too underrated and with all the other projects Bioware has going on right now, I'm afraid Jade Empire 2 will never be made :([/quote]

Jade Empire tried to put too much hack 'n slash in an RPG. The combat was incredibly simple/easy and the game was short.
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[quote name='Anatole Kuragin' post='1435944' date='Jul 11 2008, 13.07']Jade Empire tried to put too much hack 'n slash in an RPG. The combat was incredibly simple/easy and the game was short.[/quote]

My problem with JE is that if the game was any longer the shallowness of the actual gameplay would have outstayed its welcome and I would have quit. As it was I thought it was a pretty decent game for the time I put into it.

The DA "launch" has been a sad joke - I'm pretty sure the Bio PR team are sitting in their office cackling madly and going "HA HA! Made you look!" to themselves. Hell they probably amuse themselves walking around the office all day and saying the same things after telling fellow worker's that their flies are undone...
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[quote name='hALo BEndeR' post='1435694' date='Jul 10 2008, 23.01']The thing about Mass Effect though is it's simply titled [i]Mass Effect[/i] not [i]Mass Effect: The Beginning[/i]... it tells a complete story arch in itself as all Bioware RPGs have before it.[/quote]

True, but it was announced before ME was released that it was the first party of a trilogy. So even if the DA:O title hints about sequels, I don't really see why we should expect a less complete story from it.
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Oh EA, why must you always insist on not lubing up before you fuck my hopes and dreams?

Anyway, Bioware has never been that strong at PR and marketing (in my eyes). This retardedness does bode well in the fact that it indicates that EA's not THAT involved... usually they have a slick marketing campaign followed by a shitty ass game...

Speaking of Mass Effect, I think I'm going to start a replay...
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[quote name='Anatole Kuragin' post='1435944' date='Jul 11 2008, 04.07']Jade Empire tried to put too much hack 'n slash in an RPG. The combat was incredibly simple/easy and the game was short.[/quote]

I wanted to like Jade Empire much more than I did. The glow wore off very quickly for me, in comparison to BG/BG2 , P:T and NWN2, all of which I'm still fond of. JE felt all style, not much substance. Loved the look of the game, but the look seemed all there was.

Hope the DA trailer makes up for the crappy website launch.
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[quote name='hALo BEndeR' post='1435694' date='Jul 10 2008, 18.01']The thing about Mass Effect though is it's simply titled [i]Mass Effect[/i] not [i]Mass Effect: The Beginning[/i]... it tells a complete story arch in itself as all Bioware RPGs have before it. The change in the Dragon Age name --at least in my mind-- implies that may not be the case with this game. At the very least I think it was a bad choice in subtitles :P[/quote]

Well then, this time we should give Bioware points for honesty; they're admitting well before the game is published that it'll be the first in a trilogy. :D (IMO, Bioware planned from the start to make Mass Effect a trilogy, but they waited to see how well the first game would do before making it official.)

[quote]You know what Bioware game I 'd like to see a sequel for: Jade Empire. Seriously, that game's far too underrated and with all the other projects Bioware has going on right now, I'm afraid Jade Empire 2 will never be made :([/quote]

I'm in a similar boat; the game I'm hoping for is a single-player KotOR 3.
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[quote name='Cuellar' post='1436943' date='Jul 11 2008, 15.34']Speaking of Mass Effect, I think I'm going to start a replay...[/quote]

It seems like every time I try to start a replay of a BioWare game I get stopped in my tracks on the beginning shit. I recently tried to start Mass Effect over and the load times/unnecessary dialog just kills me. This ESPECIALLY goes for BG2 and KOTOR2, even though that's Obshitian.
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[quote name='Anatole Kuragin' post='1437313' date='Jul 12 2008, 01.09']It seems like every time I try to start a replay of a BioWare game I get stopped in my tracks on the beginning shit. I recently tried to start Mass Effect over and the load times/unnecessary dialog just kills me. This ESPECIALLY goes for BG2 and KOTOR2, even though that's Obshitian.[/quote]

You can skip the dialogue, though.

Sometimes simple combat system with deep mechanics is a good way to go. That's what they did with Mass Effect: Very basic, foundational shooter mechanics with a cover system, but the depth lies in character customization, weapon specialization, utility skills, mods for weapons and armor, different ammo, etc. The fault with Jade Empire is that it had none of that, even though I dug the story and the setting. It was really refreshing to see someone have a genuine interest in Chinese culture and mythology, and not fuck it all up with the cheap fantasy wish fulfillment of making a White Savior playable character. In fact the only white person you see in the entire game is presented as an enormous ass.

If you can, you can pick up the PC version. Didn't play the X-Box version long enough to find out if you can skip dialogue, but you can in the PC, and the horrific load times are MUCH better because the game loads directly off the hard drive rather than through the disk.

I also get this snobby feeling, probably unjustified, that ever since Bioware started developing RPGs for the console first and PC second that they haven't been as good. Mass Effect's story was great, but it felt like you could do "more" in KOTOR and the overlying main quest was the point of the game, and the side quests were just peppered in as different ways of achieving that quest. Mass Effect's side quests were absolutely and utterly optional, and the entire main campaign was a grand total of only 4 planets without much exploration, characterization or development at all. Maybe just enough to stand on its own, but certaining paling in comparison to something like KOTOR.

I have a sneaking suspicion Bioware might've gotten paranoid that the average X-Box player would wanted to have just finished the game's main story, and left the optional stuff totally severed from the rest of the game. It made me feel a little betrayed. Also probably unjustified... But that's how I felt.
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[quote name='Anatole Kuragin']It seems like every time I try to start a replay of a BioWare game I get stopped in my tracks on the beginning shit. I recently tried to start Mass Effect over and the load times/unnecessary dialog just kills me. This ESPECIALLY goes for BG2 and KOTOR2, even though that's Obshitian.[/quote]

That's odd, contrary to BG2 (where I jumped on the chance to install a mod that led me skip the opening dungeon), I really like the beginning of Mass Effect. It's the repetitive sidequests (which my compulsive completionist nature forces me to finish) that lower the replay value for me. Of course playing it on a PC helps, as there are no load times in excess of about 10 seconds (I also read the control interface is a big improvement over the console, but I wouldn't know).

[quote name='Intercept']I also get this snobby feeling, probably unjustified, that ever since Bioware started developing RPGs for the console first and PC second that they haven't been as good. Mass Effect's story was great, but it felt like you could do "more" in KOTOR and the overlying main quest was the point of the game, and the side quests were just peppered in as different ways of achieving that quest. Mass Effect's side quests were absolutely and utterly optional, and the entire main campaign was a grand total of only 4 planets without much exploration, characterization or development at all. Maybe just enough to stand on its own, but certaining paling in comparison to something like KOTOR.[/quote]

First of all, KOTOR was developed for console first, with the PC release following a few months later, and second KOTOR's main story is structured almost identical to ME. There is just a handful of planets to visit, the big difference is that all sidequests take place on these four or five planets as well, so they seem bigger but there really isn't more content. The quality of the sidequests in KOTOR is slightly higher, though.
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Okay.... the Dragon Age trailer wasn't that brilliant. It kinda looked like a total war trailer, with a big battle, but instead of humans, you fight monsters.... well, it does seem more of a dark world i guess.

[url="http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36033.html"]http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36033.html[/url]

But you can't really judge anything from that.
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Looks like it's a cutscene from the game's introduction. Ah well, at least the graphics are good.

Oh, and I feel I have to speak up in defence of Obsidian concerning KotOR 2. It was the greedy assholes at Luca$Art$ who mandated that the game be available in time for Christmas 2004.
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[quote name='Jon AS' post='1437345' date='Jul 12 2008, 08.18']First of all, KOTOR was developed for console first, with the PC release following a few months later, and second KOTOR's main story is structured almost identical to ME. There is just a handful of planets to visit, the big difference is that all sidequests take place on these four or five planets as well, so they seem bigger but there really isn't more content. The quality of the sidequests in KOTOR is slightly higher, though.[/quote]

KotOR was developed jointly for console and PC, but it was released first on the consoles as part of a drive to increase X-Box sales.

[quote]Looks like it's a cutscene from the game's introduction. Ah well, at least the graphics are good.[/quote]

It uses the game engine, so it's impressive on that level, but we're not looking at anything more impressive graphics-wise than [i]Oblivion[/i]. They're lacking a gameplay video and I think they've suffered in comparison to the [i]Diablo 3[/i] presentations. BioWare and EA need to get with the programme a bit more because this trailer made the game seem very generic and there's no mention at all of the unique stuff in the game.
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[quote name='Werthead']KotOR was developed jointly for console and PC, but it was released first on the consoles as part of a drive to increase X-Box sales.[/quote]

Yeah, bad wording on my part. The point was that KOTOR is not a good example of a "sophisticated" Bioware PC game (as opposed to the "dumbed down" console game Mass Effect).

[quote name='Werthead']They're lacking a gameplay video and I think they've suffered in comparison to the [i]Diablo 3[/i] presentations.[/quote]

Which is really odd: surely they should have something to show off by now? I'm beginning to think that this was really EA/Bioware marketing dropping the ball.
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