LugaJetboyGirl Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 [quote name='MrSarichFan' post='1437778' date='Jul 12 2008, 19.27']LugaJetBoyGirl: Haven´t you tried Anne Rice; she gets a lot of hate on this board, but I love her, her vamps are crazy and hot, but some a little to emo: Luie and Armand, but if you don´t read interview and Armand you will be spared.[/quote] Oh yea, I've done the whole Anne Rice thing, way back in the day. I guess I didn't include her in my discussion because I don't think Anne Rice's Vampireverse is as formulaic as the Anita Blakes, Sookie Stackhouses, Twilights, etc. While I had to stop with the Rice because, as you said, it gets a bit emo, what she did was hugely influential for vamp literature. While some of her stories are predictable, she's in an entirely different dimension than Anita Blake post-book-one. All the books I was talking about have that standard plot line with the lead female character and her loves, frenemies and enemies in the paranormal world. And of course, all the paranormals are fighting amongst themselves. There's usually fire and blood. Speaking of fire and blood, you could almost say that Fevre Dream fits in with the standard plot in many ways, although I guess Abner Marsh isn't really a hot babe (although I have a crush on him too). But you have the standard elements of morally conflicted vamp, attempts to find non-human blood-alternatives, complicated relationship with human friend/issues of trust, eventual battle between various paranormal camps, then fire, blood, and a very injured human trying to put back the wreckage of their life :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gertiekeddle Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 I'm a bit confused of how many people seem to enjoy the series a lot. For me, while the general plot idea is a nice one, protagonists and plot content have some serious gasps, which Meyers unfortunately can't fill up by writing skills. It seems much of liking or disliking goes back to if readers enjoy Edward. If they don't (like me), the series gets quite boring rather fast unfortunately. That's said it's also not annoying for me, it's just not interesting or 'good' enough (matter of taste, though) to keep me reading. So I stopped after the second book. That's said the adaption for cinema might work out way better. As said, I think the basic idea is neat, for particular for a younger reader's forum, and the movie might show those parts easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multaniette Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 she was popular at SFFW 3 years ago among Alison Croggon fans.... A far superior version with similar plot elements - Sunshine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna vander Poele Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 According to wiki (and its source MTV.com) the three books already have sold 50 million copies, a thought that just... makes me ill thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gertiekeddle Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 [quote name='Joanna Nox' post='1447164' date='Jul 19 2008, 21.49']According to wiki (and its source MTV.com) the three books already have sold 50 million copies, a thought that just... makes me ill thinking about it.[/quote]I didn't want to word it so directly in my first reply, but thinking of (actually quite close) friends in my age (or at least way above 20) who greatly enjoy the series, I'm getting a bit confused. About concepts of friendship mainly. ;) Seriously, I can see how people have fun with it and I'm happy as long as even those fans agree it's not exactly a good piece of literature, but it simply entertains them somehow. Still confusing (...), but everyone to their taste. My main problem was not so much that I didn't find it exactly well written - I've already enjoyed lesser plots and simplier writing styles greatly - but that it really got boring to continue reading for me. The (by fans) often quoted 'couldn't put the book away, got completely dazzled'-effect just didn't work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multaniette Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 50 million copies is definitely an exaggeration. I'd have a hard time swallowing 5 million... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LugaJetboyGirl Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 [quote name='Multaniette' post='1447193' date='Jul 19 2008, 16.17']50 million copies is definitely an exaggeration. I'd have a hard time swallowing 5 million...[/quote] I know, it seems crazy, but I can believe it. To put it in context, Deathly Hollow's sold almost 10 million copies in on ONLY 24 hours. I imagine that for MTV to have a whole website dedicated to the thing, with 'Twilight Tuesdays', they must have sold a shit ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duchess of malfi Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 This series is insanely popular among tweens and teens, from what I understand. So yes, I can also believe that huge sales figure. I think that other than Harry Potter, they are the [i]only[/i] fantasy or science fiction books I've ever seen on sale at the local grocery store. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 People read for all sort of reasons, and I am a great defender of the right to read just for enjoyment without it needing to be *good* ( otoh I am extremely picky about what I think really is *good* but that is just me and how I relate to a certain book). Twilight (and the series) is interesting because it seems to work subconsciously so well as fantasy for so many people. It´s sort of a female fantasy ( male fantasies are usually slightly different), the whole 3 books ( yep, read them, it´s very fast read, plus it´s great stuff for analysis) is about the main narrator being told how adored and loved she is. And whatshername ( Bella, remembered!) is a very good example of a Mary Sue plotwise, particularly in book 3, every important revelation, ideas have to come through her, everything rotates through her. The characters which do not like her, nobly acknowledge respecting her and wanting to be friends. It´s a fantasy, and I am not going to smirk at that ( and I got strong feelings about female fantasy stuff not being inherently inferior to male fantasy stuff because it targets different genders. That is a point of view one sees often expressed! romance+relationship->>> cooties! nope) . But the author seems to touch a lot of subconscious yearnings around (heard somebody say these books treat vampirism as some sort of superior botox. yep. and plastic surgery and makeover. Vampirism, eternal youth and beauty only with some pesky side effects like wanting to kill people), to keep it all so light. And while I don´t think the writing is exactly good, she has this very easy rhytm, way of keeping the action flowing. Prose might not be brilliant, the plotting ouch, the characterization and premises dubious ( it truly bugs me that vampirism seems to be a lesser deal than sex!), but it is easy to read and follow - IMO that is harder to find than one would think! Summarizing it, it´s not exactly good or interesting, but I can pretty much see how it works for so many people (and good for them!). I would probably loved it if I had read it when I was 13! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LugaJetboyGirl Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 [quote name='cteresa' post='1447573' date='Jul 20 2008, 08.28']have to come through her, everything rotates through her. The characters which do not like her, nobly acknowledge respecting her and wanting to be friends. It´s a fantasy, and I am not going to smirk at that ( and I got strong feelings about female fantasy stuff not being inherently inferior to male fantasy stuff because it targets different genders. That is a point of view one sees often expressed! romance+relationship->>> cooties! nope) . But the author seems to touch a lot of subconscious yearnings around (heard somebody say these books treat vampirism as some sort of superior botox. yep. and plastic surgery and makeover. Vampirism, eternal youth and beauty only with some pesky side effects like wanting to kill people), to keep it all so light.[/quote] I totally agree. It's the ultimate teenage girl fantasy - you are especially right about all the brilliant ideas and revelations coming from Bella, and no one else, yet she is always being saved from danger by her strong boyfriends. And EVERYONE loves her, except for one 'jealous' girl and some evil people. Even the romance is so fantastical and focuses on her - she's about to marry into a totally rich family (after being poor her whole life), the guy declares that he will commit suicide when she dies, he wants to get married before sex, he makes her mix tapes, and gives her an antique wedding ring. She even gets to wear a French designer dress to her prom, which he insisted on taking her to. As for the vampirism = botox, you are totally right. She'll be forever young, wrinkle-free, and forever 110 pounds (according to bk3). I'm hoping that when Bella becomes a vamp, she will realize that all the other vamps are only mediocre looking, and that their beauty was part of the glamour. I'd just love it if suddenly Edward wasn't as attractive as she thought! Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna vander Poele Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 [quote name='LugaJetBoyGirl' post='1448228' date='Jul 20 2008, 20.06']I'd just love it if suddenly Edward wasn't as attractive as she thought! Ha![/quote] That's the thing, I don't even think Edward's even remotely attractive now. Seriously, there's this one magazine cover of the two of them and he looks like a frigging, living rock. Now the Japanese illustrations of Edward, that's something I could get behind :drool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Maid Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 [quote name='Joanna Nox' post='1448691' date='Jul 21 2008, 18.43']Now the Japanese illustrations of Edward, that's something I could get behind :drool:[/quote] There are Japanese illustrations of Edward? Wow. That I'd want to see. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gertiekeddle Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 [quote name='cteresa' post='1447573' date='Jul 20 2008, 14.28']And while I don´t think the writing is exactly good, she has this very easy rhytm, way of keeping the action flowing. Prose might not be brilliant, the plotting ouch, the characterization and premises dubious ( it truly bugs me that vampirism seems to be a lesser deal than sex!), but it is easy to read and follow - IMO that is harder to find than one would think! Summarizing it, it´s not exactly good or interesting, but I can pretty much see how it works for so many people (and good for them!). I would probably loved it if I had read it when I was 13![/quote]I only read 1+2 and stopped before Eclipse, so I might be not completely informed, but I actually think plot development was what I missed most through New Moon. I believe I can relate very good still to these female fantasy stories (I agree completely with your analysis of that), still this one didn't get me. It really must be a bit around Edward, I don't find him disturbing, but actually I'm not very fond of him either. While I can go over this vampire - death - and the like topics which are dealt with maybe a bit too easily for my taste (according to many teenagers reading the stuff, falling in love unlucky themselves one day maybe - but yay, still being responsible for their lives and how they act on suicidical literature, so I'm not judging that as completely bad), so... *forgot sentence, cough*... while I can go over this vampire thing it bugs me way more that he's that patronizing to Bella. Nobody likes Bella, naturally, seeing the Mary Sue she is, but most who love the series enjoy Edward greatly. I just don't get this, Meyers never really tells us what's neat on him expect him overly good looking. Then I also don't see where their undying (ha!) love to each other developed. I mean, I get it didn't really develop but was some love of first sight / smell issue, but a bit of character development hadn't hurt the story either imo. So, to be short: there's just more interesting literature to me to analyse, since the story just keeps being quite plain. (Again, I didn't read Eclipse, so poke me for that). It's a matter of taste, for sure. I get all excited about Star Ship Troopers movie and one easily can judge this as rather plain as well. [quote name='cteresa']I am a great defender of the right to read just for enjoyment without it needing to be *good*[/quote]That's true and important. The series does not work for me, that doesn't mean that it can't work for others and become a great enjoyment. In fact I know many who love it, even if they actually don't exactly find it goodly written as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna vander Poele Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 [quote name='The Wolf Maid' post='1448700' date='Jul 21 2008, 03.57']There are Japanese illustrations of Edward? Wow. That I'd want to see. :)[/quote] [url="http://twilight.lost-star.org/manga.php"]Here ya go[/url]. Illustrations from the Japanese version of [i]Twilight[/i]. Frankly, I'd be willing to tolerate a lot more crappy books if they had pretty-boy pictures for me to ogle at. For instance, I might actually finish [i]Eragon[/i] :sick: No Darrel K. Sweet however :mad: [quote name='gertiekeddle' post='1450409' date='Jul 22 2008, 05.56']In fact I know many who love it, even if they actually don't exactly find it [b]goodly written [/b]as well.[/quote] Indeed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LugaJetboyGirl Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 [quote name='Joanna Nox' post='1450636' date='Jul 22 2008, 11.18'][url="http://twilight.lost-star.org/manga.php"]Here ya go[/url]. Illustrations from the Japanese version of [i]Twilight[/i]. Frankly, I'd be willing to tolerate a lot more crappy books if they had pretty-boy pictures for me to ogle at.[/quote] Awe-some [in sing song voice]. I agree one hundred precent. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap Rowsdower Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 OK. I've decided that I'm not going to read this series. Apparently it eventually goes [url="http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/630150.html#cutid1"]to[/url] [url="http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/630293.html#cutid3"]scary[/url] [url="http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/630806.html"]places[/url] that even Goodkind would fear to traverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna vander Poele Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 [quote name='Zap Rowsdower' post='1466764' date='Aug 3 2008, 05.01']OK. I've decided that I'm not going to read this series. Apparently it eventually goes [url="http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/630806.html#cutid2"]to[/url] [url="http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/630293.html#cutid3"]scary[/url] [url="http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/630806.html"]places[/url] that even Goodkind would fear to traverse.[/quote] Wise man. [b]ETA: [/b]All right, I just actually read this. Wow... I cannot wait for the fans' reactions. This is going to be epic. [b]EETA:[/b] Oh Pots, I don't think you have to worry about it being too chaste anymore... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco the Lizard Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 The vampires SPARKLE in this series. I think that kind of says it all. The fact that it's supposed to be the Ultimate Female Romantic Fantasy worries me as well, because Edward acts like a creepy stalker half the time, and Bella wants to become a vampire just so she can be with him forever and ever and ever. She has no ambition in her life apart from being with Edward. If that's supposed to be the Ultimate Female Romantic Fantasy, I'll pass, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potsherds Posted August 3, 2008 Author Share Posted August 3, 2008 [quote name='Zap Rowsdower' post='1466764' date='Aug 3 2008, 12.01']OK. I've decided that I'm not going to read this series. Apparently it eventually goes [url="http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/630806.html#cutid2"]to[/url] [url="http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/630293.html#cutid3"]scary[/url] [url="http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/630806.html"]places[/url] that even Goodkind would fear to traverse.[/quote] Wow. :stunned: The series nose-dived faster than LKH. And without even the decent beginning of a series. *sigh* From stupid to stupidest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 My sister loves these books. Personally I hate nearly every modern vampire series and won't go within a meter of them. But after seeing...whatever the hell that was up there in those links, I am almost intrigued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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