NFL offseason II

[Gold Storm]

[quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1439973' date='Jul 14 2008, 19.31']Still probably a kinder fate than laboring under the shadow of Joe Montana and Steve Young, with an ownership turned to shit, behind a porous offensive line and no receiver support... I do wonder, a lot, about the Alex Smith/Aaron Rodgers debate from that draft year. Would he have done better than Smith?[/quote]

For the first couple years some of the 49fans thought that Young could not win the big one, and was a choker. I think that he benefited from Montana going to KC without all of the drama that is surrounding the Packers right now. Also, Young was a top prospect and a lot of people thought he would be great, people do not know what to think about Rodgers yet.

Alex Smith just got drafted by a bad team, it did not matter whom the 49ers drafted, it would not have turned out good for them.

[Space Bandito]

Just a few [url="http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=FAV540222"]stats from NFL.com[/url]

Brett Farve in 2006 -- Yards, 3,885 comp %56 18td, 18int Sacked 21 times lost 5 fumbles

2005 -- 3,881 , comp % 61.3, 20td, 20 int, Sacked 24 times seven fumbles lost.

He had a good year in 2007. He had a better team in 2007. I don't understand the mentality that he "deserves to go back." Maybe I will feel differently when Tom Brady's time comes, but I have seen players I loved go due to injury, Money or age. I still own the jerseys and followed them when they left. Some even teams I hated. It happens. [b]Curtis Martin, Lawyer Milloy, Terry Glenn [/b]and [b]Drew Bledsoe[/b], to name more recent players in Patriots lore. I don't agree with Rockroi. I think Farve was pissed off all year about missing out on Randy Moss. However I don't think there was anything The Packers could have done to pull that deal off. Moss did not want to go to Green Bay.

The Packers need to be clear to the fans and to the media that Farve is not coming back to their team. I suppose they are trying to look good for the fans and potential bidders.

Mexal, I don't mind reading stuff from other fans. Good info about another team is fun. Arguing about assteriks and cheating is boring. Learning about the back up punter for the Bengals is probably not my goal when I read this thread, but if it is imporant to you then write three paragrahps on it. :thumbsup:

[Mexal]

[quote name='Space Bandito' post='1440398' date='Jul 15 2008, 01.51']Mexal, I don't mind reading stuff from other fans. Good info about another team is fun. Arguing about assteriks and cheating is boring. Learning about the back up punter for the Bengals is probably not my goal when I read this thread, but if it is imporant to you then write three paragrahps on it. :thumbsup:[/quote]

We don't have a back up punter :uhoh:

[Rockroi]

Jaime:

This is awkward. Because I ultimately was THRILLED when- during the 2007 Draft –the Pats traded for Moss. It was amazing. However, the Packers are not the Patriots and I can sincerely understand the Packers hesitation with the trade. Yes, the fourth rounder was “meh” but the more overarching principle was Moss’ ability to divide a team against itself. Again, the culture back then was not only was Moss selfish and greedy, self absorbed and unconcerned with … anything…, but TO’s departure from Philly was utmost in people’s minds. It RUINED that team. I cannot say how AT THE TIME that decision was a bad one. Did the Packers misjudge? If you look at the Patriots, they clearly did. At the same time, there was no guarantee that the pack (coming off a 6-10 season?) were going to be able to turn it around. Again, I am not saying Brett was not correct, I am saying that holding it against the pack for making that decision is childish and petulant something Mr. Favre is excelling in right now.

[quote]He had a good year in 2007. He had a better team in 2007. I don't understand the mentality that he "deserves to go back."[/quote]

Completely agree. And I think its classic fandom- people only see “Brett Favre” and not the fact that he still throws bad passes, his decision making is in the cellar, and his skills have eroded. Sorry folks, happens to the best QB’s and its time everyone faced that! Be adults about this.

[quote]Maybe I will feel differently when Tom Brady's time comes…[/quote]

YOU SHUT UP!!! TOM BRADY IS NEVER GETTING OLD!!! YOU HEAR ME??!? HE’S GOING TO BE THE BESTEST QB FOREVER!!!! (*cough*cough*) Sorry… was projecting there again…

[quote]I don't agree with Rockroi. I think Farve was pissed off all year about missing out on Randy Moss. However I don't think there was anything The Packers could have done to pull that deal off. Moss did not want to go to Green Bay.[/quote]

Wait? People don’t always agree with me? Whaaaa? That…that’s cold.

While it could be true that Favre was always angry at the Pack for Moss, all I read all season from Peter King was that Favre was disappointed about not getting Moss but did not hold it against the Packers and that it had nothing to do with his decision to retire or what is happening now. Only NOW- when Favre looks up and sees that his adoring public is not in lock-step behind him does the Moss story come bubbling back. Smacks of desperation to me. I could be way wrong, but I just think this is just drudging up former incidents to build a case against somebody.

[DanteGabriel]

[quote name='Rockroi' post='1440710' date='Jul 15 2008, 08.46']While it could be true that Favre was always angry at the Pack for Moss, all I read all season from Peter King was that Favre was disappointed about not getting Moss but did not hold it against the Packers and that it had nothing to do with his decision to retire or what is happening now. Only NOW- when Favre looks up and sees that his adoring public is not in lock-step behind him does the Moss story come bubbling back. Smacks of desperation to me. I could be way wrong, but I just think this is just drudging up former incidents to build a case against somebody.[/quote]
If the Whitlock columned I linked was your only basis for believing the "Favre is bitter because they didn't get Moss" story -- well, might want to take it with a grain of salt. That's Whitlock's belief, and for all we know he did get some words from Favre to that effect a while ago, but just reading that column, it's not clear to me that Favre is trying to re-awaken the Moss story. I think Whitlock's bringing it up on his own without Favre's collusion.

ETA: I do believe that Favre's trying to cast aspersions upon the Packers to cover his own ass. He's now claiming that he only said he was retiring in March because the organization pressed him to make a decision early. Jesus Christ, man up, Brett.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='Space Bandito' post='1440398' date='Jul 15 2008, 01.51']He had a good year in 2007. He had a better team in 2007. I don't understand the mentality that he "deserves to go back." Maybe I will feel differently when Tom Brady's time comes, but I have seen players I loved go due to injury, Money or age. I still own the jerseys and followed them when they left. Some even teams I hated. It happens. [b]Curtis Martin, Lawyer Milloy, Terry Glenn [/b]and [b]Drew Bledsoe[/b], to name more recent players in Patriots lore.[/quote]

Disagree. The single biggest reason for why they had a good year was Favre. All those weeks he carried the offense when they had no running game. For most of the season he was a top 5 QB in football. That to me [i]always[/i] deserves the benefit of the doubt. If I had reason to believe a first time QB like Aaron Rodgers could put up similar numbers I'd probably cut bait...but I have no reason to believe that.

As for the difference between the guys you mentioned and Favre...the former are all good players, the latter is a Wisconsin institution...probably the most beloved single athlete in the state's history. Yeah, I know the comparable case is Montana ending his career on the Chiefs, but the difference, of course, is that Montana didn't get booted to the Chiefs after having his second best season ever. That would've been unthinkable.

[quote]The Packers could have done to pull that deal off. Moss did not want to go to Green Bay.[/quote]

There's a distinction here. Moss did not want to go to Green Bay, only [i]after[/i] dealing with Ted Thompson. If the Packers were legitimately interested in Moss, make no mistake, he would've been a Packer in 2007. They could offer a better fourth rounder than the Patriots and the chance to send 'em to the other conference which would've been more appealing to Davis. And if Moss felt wanted he would've been happy just playing with a real QB in an NFL offense again.

[Space Bandito]

No one denies Farve is not a skilled player. But as far as a teammate? A motivator? A teacher? A guy who listens to his coach? He may do a mean ass fist pump after a touchdown, but from all accounts by past teammates and everyone but his two fan boys (Peter King and Steve Mariuicci) he is a tad selfish. I can go on with players who were Super Bowl Gods who did not finish their careers with their original team. Joe Namath? Unitas?

And some I think underestimate the impact when I bring up Bledsoe. He went to Super Bowl at such a young age against Farve, as well as taking the Patriots to heights some fans had never seen. He won a play off game after Brady got hurt. An unproven and inaccurate Brady. Then he is benched and traded to a division rival. A move that still is a rift between some Patriot fans. Belichick and Pioli said one thing. [b]The team comes first[/b].

As for the Moss information. The only information I heard (as a Patriots fan obviously) was that he wanted to play for Belichick. He played for pennies and incentives last year. He did do an interview in March of this year to clear up a few things:

[quote]If the Green Bay Packers were to take a run at Patriots wide receiver Randy Moss, as has been speculated, they might have to mend some fences first.

At the Super Bowl in February, Moss sounded less than thrilled with the team's approach to courting him last year, when he was seeking a trade from the Oakland Raiders.

Moss clearly has affection for Packers legend Brett Favre, but he didn't seem to like much else about the Packers, judging from his comments on Jan. 30.

"I think Brett Favre wanted to talk to me. I think I was tied up and unable to talk to him. Green Bay was in the picture, but things were told to me about maneuvering money around and making it a good fit," said Moss, when asked about the Pack's pursuit of him last off-season.

"The Packers were really talking about the wrong things, and not the right things. When they started talking more about the wrong things, I just hung up the phone and didn't want to talk to them anymore. I thought at first it was something that could have worked, for the fact that Brett Favre was there, but I think as the conversations occurred throughout the day and the next day, I didn't really want to go to Green Bay.

Moss was pressed on what exactly those wrong things were and went into detail.

They were just talking about their team concept and the wide receivers and Donald Driver," he said. "It was like they were telling me that they were going to somewhat take a chance on me but, ˜if you do come here, these are the things you have to watch out, and be on your best behavior, and Donald Driver is the top receiver here, so don't come in and try to step on his toes, and things like that.

"I didn't think that was right because my whole career I have been taken out of context sometimes, but at the end of the day all I wanted to do was win games. ...I didn't really feel they wanted me. I felt that Brett Favre wanted me, but I didn't€™t really feel the Packers wanted me.

Maybe, both the feelings of Moss and the Packers have changed.[/quote] Reiss Pieces (Best site for Patriots info )

[Whiskeyjack]

Looks like the Bears might sign Kevin Jones. If it happens, it goes against everything they've said in the offseason about bringing in veteran competition for Forte (no surprise...can't trust teams :P). I think it would be a pretty smart move....low risk, since he probably won't be paid much, and the potential reward is high. At the very least, he's a solid insurance policy.

[Mexal]

[quote name='Whiskeyjack' post='1441043' date='Jul 15 2008, 11.48']Looks like the Bears might sign Kevin Jones. If it happens, it goes against everything they've said in the offseason about bringing in veteran competition for Forte (no surprise...can't trust teams :P). I think it would be a pretty smart move....low risk, since he probably won't be paid much, and the potential reward is high. At the very least, he's a solid insurance policy.[/quote]

Yea, I just read the same thing.

I have no idea why the Steelers were interested. They have Parker and just drafted Mendenhall who is a stud.

[DeliriousEdd]

[quote name='awesome possum' post='1439494' date='Jul 14 2008, 15.41']I'm perfectly happy with Favre ruining his legacy by showing what a huge pretentious d-bag he really is.[/quote]

Preach on!! How can anybody not be tired of seeing Brett cry after the last game of the season? This was the third year in a row. Of course, with that stinker of a playoff game I don't blame him for the tears this year.

Brett, you whiny bastard, if you didn't waffle every single winter/spring you would still be the quarterback at GB. The effect on his legacy is the only silver lining amidst all the Favre crap. I've had to swear off ESPN for the last week after the "experts" stated GB simply must honor his request for unconditional release. Oy. I think I'll just get my updates here as it seems most have turned down the kool aid.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='DeliriousEdd' post='1441262' date='Jul 15 2008, 13.39']Preach on!! How can anybody not be tired of seeing Brett cry after the last game of the season? This was the third year in a row. Of course, with that stinker of a playoff game I don't blame him for the tears this year.

Brett, you whiny bastard, if you didn't waffle every single winter/spring you would still be the quarterback at GB. The effect on his legacy is the only silver lining amidst all the Favre crap. I've had to swear off ESPN for the last week after the "experts" stated GB simply must honor his request for unconditional release. Oy. I think I'll just get my updates here as it seems most have turned down the kool aid.[/quote]

Said the Cowboy fan. :P

[DeliriousEdd]

[quote name='Jaime L' post='1441265' date='Jul 15 2008, 12.40']Said the Cowboy fan. :P[/quote]

Hey, at least when Romo cries you know it's because he choked away another playoff game that was in the bag. That's "team" tears, not "me" tears. :P

[Kalbear]

I love the idea of Kevin Jones. He's a good running back who is stellar as a receiver or option back. Forte, from what I've seen, is not that kind of back, so having two different types might make the GrossTon QB combo have a couple more small options for their fail plays of TE curl and RB out.

I just don't think he's got anything left. Which sucks - the guy was awesome.

[Space Bandito]

Can Kevin Jones pass block? Sounds like a good fit.

I just found out that there is a part 2 to the Brett Farve interview. :bang: I'll let you all scour the megaverse for clips and snippets. It airs tonight. Ugh. More Randy Moss whining, second guessing, and Packers bashing. I just searched for Brett Farve retirment tributes. Wow. A lot of county music tributes and crying people. To these people Farve just came out of the Tomb and proclaimed himself the Messiah of Football. Would not want to be Rogers right now.

Does anyone know when Hard Knocks starts airing?

[Space Bandito]

[quote name='DeliriousEdd' post='1441306' date='Jul 15 2008, 13.59']Hey, at least when Romo cries you know it's because he choked away another playoff game that was in the bag. That's "team" tears, not "me" tears. :P[/quote]

It happens when you scratch your eyes after eating salty popcorn. Or just insert random joke about hanging out with Michael Irvin and drugs. :thumbsup:

[CelticBrennus]

Looks like Peyton Manning is going to have to sit out of team practices for the next 4-6 weeks after some surgery, and might even miss the season opener.

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3487657"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3487657[/url]

[Rockroi]

[quote]Hey, at least when Romo cries you know it's because he choked away another playoff game that was in the bag. That's "team" tears, not "me" tears.[/quote]

(sniffles) But that's my quarterback (*cries*) ... that's my boy (**cries**)

[DeliriousEdd]

[quote name='Rockroi' post='1441406' date='Jul 15 2008, 14.03'](sniffles) But that's my quarterback (*cries*) ... that's my boy (**cries**)[/quote]

Well there's no defending Dallas' free agent aquisitions over the last few years. I'd like to send TO, Tank, and Pac-Man to Al Davis for McFadden. I'm still a cowboys fan in spite of their flaws. Like I still love my son who somehow turned out to like both Brett Favre and the Patriots. :tantrum: At least he's not a Redskins fan.

[DanteGabriel]

[quote name='DeliriousEdd' post='1441420' date='Jul 15 2008, 15.18']Well there's no defending Dallas' free agent aquisitions over the last few years. I'd like to send TO, Tank, and Pac-Man to Al Davis for McFadden. I'm still a cowboys fan in spite of their flaws. Like I still love my son who somehow turned out to like both Brett Favre and the Patriots. :tantrum: At least he's not a Redskins fan.[/quote]
Really? TO? He's a punk and a malcontent, but there's no question he's consistently produced on the field for the Cowboys.

[Space Bandito]

[quote name='DeliriousEdd' post='1441420' date='Jul 15 2008, 15.18']Well there's no defending Dallas' free agent aquisitions over the last few years. I'd like to send TO, Tank, and Pac-Man to Al Davis for McFadden. I'm still a cowboys fan in spite of their flaws. Like I still love my son who somehow turned out to like both Brett Favre and the Patriots. :tantrum: At least he's not a Redskins fan.[/quote]

Where I live (Maine) there is a large group of Cowboys and Giant fans. Most Cowboys fans seem to agree with you. I think Jerry Jones wants to fund that massive stadium and wants to keep everyone happy at all costs.

While you are around, what is your opinion on the coaching situation. Is Wade gone after this year? Has he sent you any text messages (ala Peter King) to update you?