The ethics of "free" e-books

[Larry.]

It's a subject that's been on my mind [url="http://ofblog.blogspot.com/2008/07/ethics-of-free-e-books.html"]recently[/url], but I'll ask it here in a briefer form: What do you feel about people getting e-books via less-than-legal ways? Have you done it yourself? If so, was it done just to sample a book? Did you tend to buy the book afterwards?

[Thrashalla]

I've done it a few times. I did it with Daniel Abraham's [i]A Shadow In Summer[/i], and Steven Erikson's [i]Deadhouse Gates[/i]. With A Shadow In Summer, I went out and bought the physical book when i was about 3/4 of the way through and have bought [i]A Betrayal In Winter[/i] as well. For Erikson, I dloaded the eBook for convenience - I can dload it to my Blackberry and it seems like I read about 25% faster and I can easily get away with it during downtime at work...I now own 2 different editions of [i]Deadhouse Gates[/i]. So yeah, take that how you will, haha.

I have a bunch of other downloaded and haven't started yet, some of which are out of print...so it's definitely helpful there, and if things keep following the current trend I've set I'll most likely buy the book if I like it or just delete it if I can't get into it...also, if you're on a budget and just [i]can't wait[/i] to read a book, the eBook can be good for waiting for the paperback to come out. I haven't tried that one yet and don't really see myself doing it, but you never know.

As for how I feel about it - I'm not too sure. I download the hell out of music, but for some reason it feels a little dirtier downloading an eBook if I don;t plan on buying it. It probably has to do with CD's costing $15+ or more if you're into hard to find stuff, ripping off a large evil broken system (record industry), or even the fact that writers tend to really live off of their work and musicians have other careers...maybe I'm just desensitized and spiteful when it comes to music.

Edit: The Abraham book wasn't stealing...IIRC it was part of Tor's free ebook promotion that they do.

[RWHamel]

Well, there is such a thing as free e-books. This is content that is in the public domain. It used to be that most copyrighted material would enter the public domain in a short period of time until Mickey Mouse, and Walt Disney. Anyway, you can check out most freely available content [url="http://www.archive.org/index.php"]here[/url]. Most of H. Beam Piper's books are in the public domain.

[Larry.]

I've read public domain works before via Project Gutenberg, but I tend to shy away from doing it for copyrighted works, because I don't care to rob them of royalties. Now if it's an extra copy for convenience's sake, I don't feel as bad, because I ultimately did/would have paid royalties on the work, but it is odd in this particular case, doing it for a translation of a work I'll be reading in a different translation in the coming weeks. And since the author himself has approved of fan-posted translations of his work before, I suspect he wouldn't mind as much since I'm using it as a preview for the soon-to-be purchased book.

[Shevchyk]

It is a great way to get a taste of a book. Yes, I know what you're saying - "But Shev, it's illegal!" I know that. However: the research I've seen suggests that even pirated e-books fail to undercut actual sales of physical books. Why? If a book is of a high enough level of quality, then the pirate will likely end up buying the book that he or she originally pirated.

[Larry.]

Or in my case, since I know I'm purchasing this in a different translation when it's available, it's a way for me to read the story twice and have it still be somewhat "fresh" for when I want to write a review of it.

[Wyatt]

[quote name='Shevchyk' post='1448295' date='Jul 21 2008, 00.04']It is a great way to get a taste of a book. Yes, I know what you're saying - "But Shev, it's illegal!" I know that. However: the research I've seen suggests that even pirated e-books fail to undercut actual sales of physical books. Why? If a book is of a high enough level of quality, then the pirate will likely end up buying the book that he or she originally pirated.[/quote]

I agree with this poster. My feelings are the same. I have "pirated" books to see whether or not I would buy them. To me it's the same reason for going to the library or something, except I can do it from home. I rarely read even a quarter of a book in my computer because I find it somewhat uncomfortable. I read it to satisfy my curiosity and seeing if I will go and buy the physical book. The only series I have "pirated" and read a whole book without buying it was Wizard's First Rule. Because I wouldn't pay two dollars for the thing, but morbid curiosity kept me going.

[aergern]

Tis why I won't go near eBooks until I have absolutely no choice in the matter. I see it ending up like the RIAA/MPAA crap. I can see it now .. a guy has to pay $27,000 because he read a book that he could have checked out from a library but since it was digital content .. he now goes to jail for "intent to distribute" ... *drum roll* .. literacy. OMFG.

And I can say this .. my 320x240 Blackberry screen is just barely big enough to slog through email with my old eyes .. let alone a novel.

[Wyatt]

[quote name='aergern' post='1448321' date='Jul 21 2008, 00.23']Tis why I won't go near eBooks until I have absolutely no choice in the matter. I see it ending up like the RIAA/MPAA crap. I can see it now .. a guy has to pay $27,000 because he read a book that he could have checked out from a library. But since it was digital content .. he now goes to jail for "intent to distribute" literacy. OMFG.

And I can say this .. my 320x240 Blackberry screen is just barely big enough to slog through email with my old eyes .. let alone a novel.[/quote]

Oh, it probably will someday, along with anything you can fetch online. But hey, people can still jack music without being caught, when the stars are right. So I wouldn't worry too much if you know what you're doing :leaving:

[aergern]

[quote name='Wyatt' post='1448330' date='Jul 20 2008, 21.25']Oh, it probably will someday, along with anything you can fetch online. But hey, people can still jack music without being caught, when the stars are right. So I wouldn't worry too much if you know what you're doing :leaving:[/quote]

My problem is that bands like Metallica which started us down this "go after the fans" road use to tell fans to record their shows whether it was audio and/or video. They have an old video called Cliff'em All which was ALL fan based video shots. The collected them and put them out on a VHS tape. The made money off "piracy" and then turned on their fans like vipers. I don't want to see that kind of behavior out of the likes of GRRM because you or I gave a copy of a book to someone else to read. I don't want to be told that I can't loan out my paperback copy of AGoT to a GRRM newbie. That's crap. I've been trading books and comics with friends for over 35 years. It's fun. But if it's DRM'ed digital content .. that ends. :/

[Wyatt]

Yeah, I can relate to that. I had a friend in London who used to scan these fantasy illustrations books he bought there and email them to me. In turn I'd scan local newspaper comics for him, because he was really interested in those, in American newspaper comics. Digital sharing yeah, but it counts! Spiritually. I'd have given them to him if he was around! :dunce:

[Gigei]

I must confess to dling ebooks from dubious sources but they are either out of print or I already have a copy of them anyway and I just dl'ed the electronic version for convenience.

I have also dl'ed some books out of pure curiousity since I have no intention of buying them.

Some books are out of print anyway so I would be buying them secondhand. Since the writer gets nothing from the physical sales of the out of print book, I think it's morally alright to get the ebook.

[Multaniette]

[quote]What do you feel about people getting e-books via less-than-legal ways?[/quote]

It's on the same plane of morality as getting books to read from a public liberary or borrowing something from a friend/acquaintance.

[Geddon]

[quote name='Dylanfanatic' post='1448256' date='Jul 21 2008, 04.35']Did you tend to buy the book afterwards?[/quote]

Actually, for me it is usually the other way around. I own a paper copy and I want the flexibility and convenience of being able to read the same book on my Sony Reader device. If I've bought a physical copy I feel no remorse at all in picking up the digital equivalent for free.

Here's another question: if electronic reader devices become ubiquitous, and borrowing a book from a library becomes as easy as going to the library website and downloading it, do you imagine you will buy as many books as you do now?

I'll be honest and say no; I would only buy personal copies of the books I truly love and reread often, relying upon the library for everything else. At the moment I don't use the library much because it's a hassle travelling there to pick up and drop off books, and the range of titles is quite limited (most likely due to lack of storage space for the physical books). Neither of those would be issues for a library offering digital loans so it would become a much more attractive proposition.

[The Pita]

I did it for The Hedge Knight, though it was only because I couldn't get my hands on Dreamsongs.
Since I got my filthy money-swiping-from-George hands out of it, I've remained pure of all but Pillars of Creation, which was largely a mistake. Not the retroactive sort of mistakes, but a misclick followed by three days of utter laziness and then two days of "It's on my computer, I'll read it."
It's been erased since, so this crime will never go on, until I find out that A Dance with Dragons doesn't sell in Israel.
Then I'm just going on a killing spree until someone gives me a copy.
Anything so the horrid crime of e-book thievery is destroyed.

[Larry.]

[quote name='Geddon' post='1448710' date='Jul 21 2008, 06.10']Actually, for me it is usually the other way around. I own a paper copy and I want the flexibility and convenience of being able to read the same book on my Sony Reader device. If I've bought a physical copy I feel no remorse at all in picking up the digital equivalent for free.

Here's another question: if electronic reader devices become ubiquitous, and borrowing a book from a library becomes as easy as going to the library website and downloading it, do you imagine you will buy as many books as you do now?

I'll be honest and say no; I would only buy personal copies of the books I truly love and reread often, relying upon the library for everything else. At the moment I don't use the library much because it's a hassle travelling there to pick up and drop off books, and the range of titles is quite limited (most likely due to lack of storage space for the physical books). Neither of those would be issues for a library offering digital loans so it would become a much more attractive proposition.[/quote]

Considering how decrepit my local library system is here in TN, I highly doubt that'll be an issue as long as I live in the state :P That being said, I buy a lot of limited-edition works, so I don't think my buying would be affected much.

[Joe Abercrombie]

Seeing the words "free" and "books" in the same sentence brings me out in hives.

[Larry.]

Although many authors swear that having free promos of their works in e-book form have helped sales? ;)

[aergern]

[quote name='Joe Abercrombie' post='1449164' date='Jul 21 2008, 09.40']Seeing the words "free" and "books" in the same sentence brings me out in hives.[/quote]

Well, here is some salve for your hives. I not only bought all three of your books but paid extra to get the hardcovers from amazon.co.uk since your American publisher are such asshats and don't offer them. In fact I bought both the TPB AND hardcovers .. so there. :P

But that doesn't mean I will give up the right to trade books with my friends. I make a decent living but I also won't purchase every book recommended to me. You can't tell me you've never loaned books to friends to get them into an author. I know for a fact that the three people I've loaded The Blade Itself to have gone out and bought their own copy along with copies of parts two and three. They'd never heard of you prior to my loaning them book one. :D

But if you'd like to do a Metallica .. I suppose I'd do the same thing I did with them .. stop listening. ;D

[hadaad]

I go the way of others who have ebook copies of books they already own. I like to read on the bus, and I already have a heavy-as-hell laptop in my bag. I don't want to be carrying books in that thing too, so I put them on my palm. Way more convenient.