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Babylon 5

AverageGuy

By AverageGuy,
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Kim87 Sellsword

Kim87

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Agreed, but only because Londo is more anti-hero than villain.

Londo/G'Kar is the best example of character arcs/development ever seen in sci-fi.

I would just like to agree with that statment. Londo is such an interesting character. I am so going to watch Babylon 5 this summer.

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Werthead Council Member

Werthead

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Almost as jarring as the moment in which Ivanova reads one of Harlan Ellison's novels

I think this was Ellison's planned-but-unwritten autobiography, Working Without a Net. I also think it was an in-joke, not a serious suggestion of what might happen in the 23rd century. For a start, Ivanova wouldn't likely be using a paper book for anything ;)

Would have been funnier if it had been The Last Dangerous Visions though.

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Bronn Stone Council Member

Bronn Stone

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I think this was Ellison's planned-but-unwritten autobiography, Working Without a Net. I also think it was an in-joke, not a serious suggestion of what might happen in the 23rd century. For a start, Ivanova wouldn't likely be using a paper book for anything ;)

Would have been funnier if it had been The Last Dangerous Visions though.

Wouldn't have been funny in any context. I thought it was annoying at the time of original broadcast, and now triply so since I have come to despise Ellison. Patting oneself on the head. It jarred me then and it jars me now.

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Shryke Council Member

Shryke

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I cannot buy on to the 100% Bester love I am reading here.

1. Koenig's performance is not very strong. He not only doesn't compare with Katsulas or Jurasik (which is understandable), he really isn't in the league with Furlan, Mumy, O'Hare or Furst. While he isn't Claudia Christian-bad, he's not good. As an example, when he talks of Carolyn, the words are supposed to be filled with anguish, and they are. But nothing in his tone or demeanor made me believe those words. This was too bad, as they were mighty fine words. As good as Bester is in that show, in the hands of a stronger actor there would be little doubt he is among the two or three finest characters ever written for sci-fi television.

I just completely disagree. Koenig plays him as very in control and it works. He's always smug, always feeling like he's got the upper hand because he knows what you are thinking.

2. The name. Naming the character "Bester" is a fine homage. Naming him "Alfred Bester" is a sledge-hammer. Give him his own first name. It is a jarring moment.

Not really. I wouldn't call Bester a widely known author. He doesn't have the name recognition of an Arthur C Clarke or an Asimov.

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Bronn Stone Council Member

Bronn Stone

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I just completely disagree. Koenig plays him as very in control and it works. He's always smug, always feeling like he's got the upper hand because he knows what you are thinking.

But the example I gave was one where specifically Bester was supposed to be not in control and supposed to be showing emotion. And Koenig just couldn't pull it off. Which makes his woodenness even more apparent - he's not PLAYING Bester without emotion, he's just a log with limbs. If you pay attention to the scripts, Bester is supposed to be charming and funny. But Koenig couldn't pull off the charm and the funny only comes out despite him, not because.

Not really. I wouldn't call Bester a widely known author. He doesn't have the name recognition of an Arthur C Clarke or an Asimov.

That you are geeking for only a geek audience only makes you geekier. Then when you reinforce it by not only using his last name but his first, it is that much worse. Like hitting gnats with a sledgehammer.

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Shryke Council Member

Shryke

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But the example I gave was one where specifically Bester was supposed to be not in control and supposed to be showing emotion. And Koenig just couldn't pull it off. Which makes his woodenness even more apparent - he's not PLAYING Bester without emotion, he's just a log with limbs. If you pay attention to the scripts, Bester is supposed to be charming and funny. But Koenig couldn't pull off the charm and the funny only comes out despite him, not because.

He's not supposed to be not in control, he's supposed to be loosing his cool. Not all control, just some. You see it a few times when he gets pissed off or the like. His demeanour starts to change. But he never really looses it, nor is he supposed to.

That you are geeking for only a geek audience only makes you geekier. Then when you reinforce it by not only using his last name but his first, it is that much worse. Like hitting gnats with a sledgehammer.

Except, again, you are playing to a small audience. It can't hit like a sledgehammer if 90% of the audience doesn't even know it's a reference.

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Bronn Stone Council Member

Bronn Stone

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Except, again, you are playing to a small audience. It can't hit like a sledgehammer if 90% of the audience doesn't even know it's a reference.

A gong that echoes at a frequency that only 10% of humankind can hear is still a gong. Especially when a piccolo would have sufficed.

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Werthead Council Member

Werthead

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A gong that echoes at a frequency that only 10% of humankind can hear is still a gong. Especially when a piccolo would have sufficed.

Out of context, this would be a perfect Koshism :)

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Crazydog7 Council Member

Crazydog7

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I just completely disagree. Koenig plays him as very in control and it works. He's always smug, always feeling like he's got the upper hand because he knows what you are thinking.

I always liked him because he had some of the better one liners

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  • 4 months later...
Ran Council Member

Ran

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Via JMS:

I regret that I must convey the sad news that Michael O'Hare passed away today. He suffered a heart attack on Sunday and was in a coma until his passing this afternoon. This is a terrible loss for all B5 fans and everyone involved with the show wishes to convey their condolences to the O'Hare family. He was an amazing man.

Very sad. When googling a little, I discovered that in July 2011 JMS asked fans to help him find O'Hare, whom he had apparently lost contact with and who he had become concerned about. He did get in touch shortly afterward, stating that the good news was that he was among the living... but the bad news was that the things he had been concerned about that made him get in touch with him in the first place were borne out. He didn't explain further, but given O'Hare's passing and a report that one or more siblings of his are also deceased, I'm guessing heart or general health issues ran in the family, and that O'Hare was already in a poor way last year.

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