Valonqar; A double bluff?

[The Queen's Teats]

Arya wants to kill Cersei, she could warg into Tyrion and choke her thereby fulfilling both the prophecy and her own promise. Or she could take Tyrions face should he die...

I like the idea of the Hound returning to fight Robert Strong in Cersei's trial by battle.

And who was born first, Jaime or Cersei? If Cersei was born first then Jaime could easily be the one to do the choking and not Tyrion.

[gonzoaster11]

Arya wants to kill Cersei, she could warg into Tyrion and choke her thereby fulfilling both the prophecy and her own promise. Or she could take Tyrions face should he die...

I like the idea of the Hound returning to fight Robert Strong in Cersei's trial by battle.

And who was born first, Jaime or Cersei? If Cersei was born first then Jaime could easily be the one to do the choking and not Tyrion.

The Hound will not return to fight Robert Strong. There is almost no way for the Hound to know his brother is still "alive." It could be that the trial is how he finds out, however, and that leads him to return.

Cersei is firstborn. Jaime was 'holding her foot' or something like that.

And, although I'd enjoy either Arya or Sandor doing it, I'd prefer Tyrion to be the one who kills Cersei. She's accused Tyrion of everything he hasn't done, so I'd really like it for him to actually be the person at fault for once. Also, how much would you bet that Cersei knows where whores go?

[slurpeeofdeath]

If I weren't allowed to pick Tyrion or Jaime and I had to pick the "little brother" of this story I would say it was Stannis. There have been several mentions of how he always lived in Robert's shadow and how that drove him to be the person he became. He also is linked by marriage to Cersei. Robert's little brother - I can't think of anyone who makes more sense as the Valonquar. Of course his fear of women and sense of justice would probably prevent him from strangling her. Burning her alive as a sacrifice to R'hllor, now that would be perfectly fine.

Personally I'd be more satisfied with either Tyrion or Jaime. Jaime would be funnier, but seems less likely in his current predicament. Plus, I can't see what would cause him to move from his passive "watching a train-wreck unfold" attitude to actively murdering her. Maybe if she harmed/killed Brienne.

[daenerys snow]

"will i wed the prince?"

"never. you will wed the king?"

"I will be queen, though?"

"aye. queen you shall be ... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear."

"will the king and i have children?"

"oh, aye. six and ten for him, and three for you.

gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds. and when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale throat and choke the life from you."

it is interesting to note that maggy the frog says the valonqar, not your valonqar. its rather vague and reminds me of the words of mirri maz dur to daenerys targaryen after the incident with khal drogo.

i wouldn't rule out jaime just cause he lost one of his hands. he did gain a golden one after all.

[Daemrion]

Yes, it does say the valonqar but that should be interpreted as the 'your little brother' (with the grammatical difference because of the mixing of two languages). Otherwise, the prophecy could refer to absolutely every younger brother. Stannis is an interesting new possibility since he is Robert's younger brother and hence Cersei's by marriage, but I don't think he'll be strangling for the reasons outlined above unless he becomes an Other? (the blue-eyed King who cast no shadow?)

[Sam with Hooters]

Danaerys Snow wrote:

<<i wouldn't rule out jaime just cause he lost one of his hands. he did gain a golden one after all

...and if he only wants to use one hand, there's always that handy-dandy murder weapon, the King's Hand chain-of-office . . . lots of "hands" on that.

[Queen Sansa]

If I weren't allowed to pick Tyrion or Jaime and I had to pick the "little brother" of this story I would say it was Stannis. There have been several mentions of how he always lived in Robert's shadow and how that drove him to be the person he became. He also is linked by marriage to Cersei. Robert's little brother - I can't think of anyone who makes more sense as the Valonquar. Of course his fear of women and sense of justice would probably prevent him from strangling her. Burning her alive as a sacrifice to R'hllor, now that would be perfectly fine.

Personally I'd be more satisfied with either Tyrion or Jaime. Jaime would be funnier, but seems less likely in his current predicament. Plus, I can't see what would cause him to move from his passive "watching a train-wreck unfold" attitude to actively murdering her. Maybe if she harmed/killed Brienne.

damnn, Stannis was my brilliant crackpot theory on this, and i was all excited because it hadnt been posted, then i get to the last page and see this :tantrum:

But i do agree with everything you said, and i think it would be really good to have Stannis be the valonquar, because i've always been a fan of his and i kinda want him to end up king in the end, especially if Dany and/or Jon die fighting the others.

[dayne curious]

While I believe it will probably be Jaime, I can also see that the Valonquar being Sandor Clegane might make some kind of sense (... but would prefer it to be (1) Jaime or (2) Tyrion (less likely in my view))

[voodooqueen126]

I still think it's gonna be the high sparrow. He's a brother of the faith, and he's little. Hence the "little brother" part. And he's already got Cersei in his clutches.

He is descried as

He is a tall,thin, hard eyed, grey haired man with a heavily lined face. Unlike previous High Septons he does not wear rich robes or elaborate crowns of crystal and spun gold but wears a simple plain white wool tunic that goes down to his ankles.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/High_Sparrow

[Black Amethyst]

i personally think that the valonquar is going to be the Hound. I can see Cersei somehow getting Gregorstein to be her champion against the faith and the Hound comes out of hiding to fight his big brother. Hence the "little brother" kills not only Gregor, but he also condemns Cersei to death, figurativley strangling her if you will

I think the Hound fits perfectly for the role of valonquar. He's a little brother, there is the whole Gregor thing and who wouldn't want to see him choke Cersei out? I don't think Jaime quite has the motivation to kill her. Hate her yes, but I am hesitant to believe he would kill her outright.

[TheMadMundt]

Cersei will be strangled by one of the "brothers" from the Septon's knights - the Sons of the Warrior. She'll have to wait a while, though. Her other 2 kids will have to be shrouded first.

[johnatthebar]

In return if the valonqar turns out to be anyone else you must sing the 'I'm very sorry' song while hopping sideways on one leg with your eyes closed.

*closes eyes* Boom boom boom.

[Raksha the Demon]

The only thing I'm sure of in terms of the Valonquar prophecy is that it won't be Tyrion. My money's on Jaime, but if you take Valonquar to mean anyone's younger brother, it could anyone from Sandor (especially if Cersei is threatening Sansa) to Victarion to the Blackfish.

[1234567]

I'm trying to rationalize it based on where Cersei is going to be by the end of the books and who would be close enough to do it and which little brother would hate her enough, (first list is quite short, the second list is huge.)

I read somewhere that we will see Casterly Rock at some point and I think it will be a Cersei POV. The only younger brother at the Rock is Edmure Tully.

He may be a dark horse in the race to kill the vile one, but my money is on him!

[eyeheartsansa]

Everyone is over thinking it. can you really picture Stannis or Sandor or Edmure stabbing cercei, like, haha, you never guessed the little brother was me all along!!

Nah. It's got to be Jaime. However predictable, Jaime has the best potential for dramatic resonance.

[Raksha the Demon]

I can't see Edmure Tully strangling a woman with his own hands; he's a fairly reasoned, thinking, fellow. But if Cersei were to orchestrate the deaths of his wife and child (who, as far as we know, were sent to Casterly Rock to live out their lives as Lannister vassals, the child still unborn), I could see Edmure getting angry enough to kill Cersei. It's a stretch, though.

[Yakman]

it's jaime. remember, all three of their children are dead, their abortive empire is in ruins, and he goes and chokes the life out of her for causing all the misery and hardship that she does.

he has one real hand and one golden hand.

[Phreadde the Mummer]

As of ADwD, isn't Mace Tyrell the Hand of Tommen, who could be considered "valonquar"?

Just a crackpot theory to throw a match on the wildfire....

[slurpeeofdeath]

I'm trying to rationalize it based on where Cersei is going to be by the end of the books and who would be close enough to do it and which little brother would hate her enough, (first list is quite short, the second list is huge.)

I read somewhere that we will see Casterly Rock at some point and I think it will be a Cersei POV. The only younger brother at the Rock is Edmure Tully.

He may be a dark horse in the race to kill the vile one, but my money is on him!

This is a great theory and makes perfect sense to me. I can't believe I forgot about Edmure being a little brother. With the Tully's proven predilection towards revenge I can completely see him sneaking in to strangle her in her own bed. Also maybe getting close to her won't be too difficult since she may decide to make Edmure her next conquest after returning to Casterly Rock.

damnn, Stannis was my brilliant crackpot theory on this, and i was all excited because it hadnt been posted, then i get to the last page and see this :tantrum:

But i do agree with everything you said, and i think it would be really good to have Stannis be the valonquar, because i've always been a fan of his and i kinda want him to end up king in the end, especially if Dany and/or Jon die fighting the others.

Haha, I feel that way most of the time on this forum. Every time I think I've come up with a brilliant theory that no one but myself has seen, I see someone thought of it 6 years ago.

[King Harren]

I'm pretty sure it says that she will be strangled by the valonqar..? What if it was just maggy having a laugh and actually it's the antithesis of little brother - someone who is no-one's brother nor their younger sibling. What if it's Cat - would fit with the strangling bit and all.