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The Steel Remains


Tom the Merciful

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Well, intense stimulants can be fun....... (though I confess my personal experience in those areas is fairly limited; certainly my teeth are still in pretty good shape!)

Really, drugs of this sort are just a helpful intensifier for the characters' physical functions and emotional states. Tetrameth and krinzanz both telegraph a certain amount of extreme capacity in their users, and also a hollow desperation, a sort of end-of-tetherness which supercharges the fiction. And substance abuse (possibly for similar reasons) is an old noir staple from way back. Even the old school noir heroes like Spade and Marlowe were chemically dependent, albeit on a legal poison (though bear in mind that alcohol had been a proscribed substance in the US not that long before Chandler and Hammett were writing, so it probably still had a semi-forbidden cachet clinging to it that we now have to go to drugs like cocaine to feel.

Incidentally, for what it's worth, I always imagined krinzanz as being relatively benign compared to something like Crystal Meth (which, no two ways about it, is fucking bad news poison of the worst kind). Krin is meant to be a relatively natural substance - think opium rather than morphine (though of course it's a stimulant, not a narcotic) - thus not requiring particularly developed technology to extract, and being relatively compatible with the metabolisms of naturally occurring creatures like humans Long term abuse of krinzanz would certainly have its down sides - it'd put a strain on your heart and circulatory system, and probably tip you towards the psychotic end of the spectrum (though, in a world this brutal and apt to military slaughter, how could you be sure that was the cause?).

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I want to thank Richard Morgan for the detailed answer, very cool of you.

The "suspension of disbelief" contract goes both ways between author and reader. By simply picking up a fantasy novel I gave the work the benefit of the doubt, but the language issues I mentioned were just too jarring to create a believable setting for me. Even assuming the setting is a future earth, there just wasn't enough evidence in the text to put my concerns to rest.

If others have no problem with it, great. After all, I'm just a humorless, pedantic prick who doesn't know how to have fun... :D

All fantasy novels will inherently contain some of these these artifacts--for instance everyone and their brother (including GRRM) uses the term gunwale in pre-gunpowder settings, which of course makes no sense at all (gunwale=gun wall).

Compare that to a Tyrion who sports a bowler cap and monocle and loudly exclaims "f'shizzle my n'izzle" every other page. OK, a gross exaggeration, but you get the point. The trick I think, is to limit the jarring elements so that the reader isn't distracted by the artifice of the fiction. This allows the characters, plot, and themes to then take center stage, as they should. Of course, many readers don't notice or could give a fuck less...but hey, I'm a details man.

Westeros for instance, seems like a real place to me, where the World depicted in the Steel Remains just seems artificial.

Then again, perhaps that was your intent. Unfortunately, for me, that doesn't equate with a pleasurable reading experience.

But props where props are due--a great change of pace to have a male gay hero (or anti-hero). Hopefully, we'll see more of this in all media (AKA the Omar effect.) And the non-judgemental depiction of drug use is a nice change too.

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Saliently, a very fine recent translation of The Iliad, uses very modern language and allusions (Achilles sounds like a gung-ho U.S. Marine). I think the approach to language and diction can create different effects on readers. LotR re-written as a post-9/11 "War on Terror" modern epic would sound very different -- and bring different things to mind -- than how it is written.

Not that I'd want it changed, of course. But of course, to a lesser degree, GRRM too is anachronistic in his language. His characters speak in a more "modern" way than what was traditional for the sort of fantasy he writes, even if he retains some formality and certain archaics phrasings for flavor.

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Saliently, a very fine recent translation of The Iliad, uses very modern language and allusions (Achilles sounds like a gung-ho U.S. Marine). I think the approach to language and diction can create different effects on readers. LotR re-written as a post-9/11 "War on Terror" modern epic would sound very different -- and bring different things to mind -- than how it is written.

Not that I'd want it changed, of course. But of course, to a lesser degree, GRRM too is anachronistic in his language. His characters speak in a more "modern" way than what was traditional for the sort of fantasy he writes, even if he retains some formality and certain archaics phrasings for flavor.

Sort of related to the current debate, the main reason I couldn't stand Baz Lurhmnan's "romeo and Juliet" was that it was in a contemporary setting but maintained the shakespearean dialogue. That really pissed me off. If you're going to modernise the story, modernise the dialogue too. If not, keep it in it's original setting. I would have been happy with either scenario but it seemed the film went for the easiest options.

Back on topic.

Always nice to see Richard pop up and join in the discussions. Hope "the Dark Commands" is coming along nicely. A lot of authors (probably their marketing folks) recently have been sticking characters on their covers (Abercrombie, Mark C Newton). Do you have any interest in the covers to your books one way or another, as most of your books have avoided character portraits and seem to draw the line at silhouettes? Gotta catch that fantasy market that loves to see the characters though. Maybe you could spare the prudish (and worse) by depicting Ringil engaging in some fun with another guy or extradimensional being ;)

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I have to say, I vastly prefer the silhouettes. That way, I can safely read a book with its dust jacket on in public. ...

I almost always use book covers since I read a lot in the subway & in public and I also find the covers of lots of fantasy books really embarrassing. Strangely, I find that the UK covers are generally better and more "adult" looking than the US covers.

to language: I didn't find the use of faggot, gunmetal etc jarring at all. I'm kinda surprised at the idea, actually. I really don't want to read books in traditional languages or languages appropriate to the setting and time (since I'd have to learn them or they would get in the way. I felt that way about A Clockwork Orange) and the words mentioned that are used in TSR really set the perfect mood and context for the story being told. Works for me. Keep it up, Richard!

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I remember talking to my editor way back when, just after I got my first book deal; as gently as possible, he said "we wouldn't expect to tell you how to write your novel, and similarly we wouldn't expect you to tell us how to sell it". Wise words indeed, and I tend to live by them - I generally get to see the covers for approval, but the underlying assumption is that I will approve because a lot of people whose job it is to do this have spent time and effort trying to get it right. So far that's worked well - I've liked all my UK and US covers (to a greater or lesser extent, depending), but even if I didn't like one, I would tend to assume that I was the one out of step. Eg - I really liked the initial "art-house ambiguous" redesign of my UK MMP covers when it was briefed a couple of years ago; but evidently the market didn't and so we went with the original artwork and a stripped back logotype instead - which as it happened I also liked, but that's not the point - point was, I never doubted that the market analysis and buyer feedback gathered by the publisher was on target, and my airy arthouse inclinations weren't; a conviction that subsequently proved accurate, since I can still count on the fingers of one hand the number of readers I've met to date who liked the arthouse covers better.

That said, I really don't know what I'd do if publisher market analysis told me my fantasy novels would really benefit from cover art featuring Penthouse models in chain-mail bikinis swooning against fur-clad swordsmen with bare muscle torsos straight out of gay porn......

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That said, I really don't know what I'd do if publisher market analysis told me my fantasy novels would really benefit from cover art featuring Penthouse models in chain-mail bikinis swooning against fur-clad swordsmen with bare muscle torsos straight out of gay porn......

Maybe you ought to stop putting those in your books then? ;)

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That said, I really don't know what I'd do if publisher market analysis told me my fantasy novels would really benefit from cover art featuring Penthouse models in chain-mail bikinis swooning against fur-clad swordsmen with bare muscle torsos straight out of gay porn......

Add more sex, of course, and see what SubPress comes up with for illustrations. :P

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That said, I really don't know what I'd do if publisher market analysis told me my fantasy novels would really benefit from cover art featuring Penthouse models in chain-mail bikinis swooning against fur-clad swordsmen with bare muscle torsos straight out of gay porn......

Now that would be embarassing to read on the tube :) Then again I spent 3 weeks last month reading a book with a rabbit on the cover (Watership down). I've tried to redeem myself with a non-movie cover of "The road" on the tube now. I wouldn't dare read a comic, other than "Watchmen" on the tube.

The second edition covers for "altered Carbon" and "Broken Angels" were a little weird but the other covers in that range were fine. I guess it's always worth a try when reprinting as, outside hardcore collectors, it's the people who didn't buy it the first time you are out to get.

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Chat -

Writing the Other: certainly, it isn't easy, but in a sense, once you're successfully published, you tend to be out looking for new challenges anyway (one of the reasons I couldn't settle for an endless series of Kovacs novels). So writing a credible female character, or a gay one, does give you a sense of sharpening your craft, and that usually makes it more than worth any extra effort required.

That said, sometimes it can be rather less effort than you'd think - there are occasions when all it really feels like I'm doing is applying a modicum of human (and humane) sensitivity to the character in exactly the same way as I would to a more "normative" protagonist. And, without wishing to spout a load of bollocks about being in touch with my feminine side, a standard issue male hero sometimes feels further from my "self" than, say, a smart and resourceful woman. So sure, it was a stretch to get inside Ringil's head sometimes (esp bedtimes!), but it was also hard work doing, for example, the straight-arrow all Amercan church boy in Black Man. To me, genuinely religious people are far more alien and Other than anyone gay or female.

Ishil? Yeah, one of my favourites too; I lavished a great deal of creative love and care on her. It's interesting - guys like GRRM and Joe Abercrombie sometimes come in for a lot of stick for being "sexist" because they refuse to moderate the essentially medieval genderscape of their work in deference to more modern reader sensibility. But to me (and to them, I imagine) an essentially medieval genderscape just offers you a plethora of opportunities to demonstrate just how unbelievably tough and smart and resourceful any woman would have to be to succeed in such a shithole period of human history - and out of that can come some truly extraordinary and compelling female characters. Hopefully, Ishil Eskiath is one such....

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(one of the reasons I couldn't settle for an endless series of Kovacs novels).

I could!

(yes, I read the whole thread just to toss in that two word reply.)

Is ya kidding? If there's one thing the world needs more of right now, it's Marxist heroes who know how to kick ass.

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New Gollancz catalogue says that The Dark Commands is 448 pages long. That would be 100 pages more than the first book. Synopsis:

The king of noir SF is taking on Fantasy, and winning!

Ringil, Egar and Archeth are back. In a world still cursed by slavery, a corrupt aristocracy and a vicious church, justice is in short supply.

In this sequel to The Steel Remains Richard Morgan brings his trademark visceral writing style, turbo-driven plotting and thought-provoking characterisation to the fantasy genre, producing a follow-up to his first foray into fantasy, and taking Ringil and Co. on the beginnings of a hopeless quest.

Maybe we are going to see a not-so-traditional fantasy quest?

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

Looks like the September date is set, the US release by Del Rey will also be in September, but oddly, it seems as though they are keeping the original title "The Cold Commands".

http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Commands-Richard-K-Morgan/dp/0345493060/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262434797&sr=1-2

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That could as easily be a mistake on the part of Amazon.

It probably is. Look at the product description:

Ringil, Egar and Archeth are back. In a world still cursed by slavery, a corrupt aristocracy and a vicious church justice is still in short supply. Ringil, Egar and Archeth will fight for it but they need to fight for survival first. Archeth's position in court is still tenuous and the secrets of the departed Kiriath are casting a worrying light on the present. Egar is still caught between his tribe and his memories of life in the Empire and facing the challange of a jealous shaman. And Egar, struggling with his own identity still faces prejudice and the horror of a prophecy that could put him at the centre of evil. And all the while the demon Takavech plays his game with mortals. And have the Dwenda really gone

Unless Egar has multiple personality disorder, I think Ringil is supposed to go there.

EDIT: I see I was beaten to the punch. :stillsick: By a couple of months. :blushing:

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That could as easily be a mistake on the part of Amazon.

That could be, but I suspect it's not, as it's the same with release dates, Amazon simply lists what the publishers provide them with. As you can see it's on Del Rey's own site as well.

Related to that is the fact that people often hammer on Amazon because that is where they go to buy future releases and then they're mad when the listing turns out false. When actually, Amazon only listed what the publisher gave them ( see Scott Lynch, Pat Rothfuss etc for some examples).

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  • 4 weeks later...

Looks like Dark Commands has been pushed back to January 2011. :thumbsdown: At least we have a new plot synopsis:

Ringil Eskiath, scarred wielder of the kiriath-forged broadsword Ravensfriend, is a man on the run from his past and the family who have disowned him, from the slave trade magnates of Trelayne who want him dead, and apparently from the dark gods themselves, who are taking an interest but making no more sense than they ever have.

Outlawed and exiled from his ancestral home in the north, Ringil has only one place left to turn: Yhelteth, city heart of the southern Empire, where perhaps he can seek asylum with the kiriath half-breed Archeth Indamaninarmal, former war comrade and now high-up advisor to the Emperor Jhiral Khimran II. But Archeth Indamaninarmal has problems of her own to contend with, as does her house guest, bodyguard and one time steppe nomad Egar the Dragonbane.

And far from gaining the respite he is seeks, Ringil will instead find himself implicated in fresh schemes and doubtful allegiances no safer than those he has left behind. Old enemies are stirring, the old order is rotted through and crumbling, and though no-one yet knows it, the city of Yhelteth is about to explode...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dark-Commands-Gollancz-S-F/dp/057507793X/ref=sr_1_110?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264506850&sr=1-110

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I think i'll wait for a more official confirmation than the magic wand of amazon. I think Richard announced on his blog when it was first put back so would expect him to mention it again.

If anyone sees him at the SFX weekender in Feb they could try and ask him, or he may turn up on the thread to confirm things.

Feels like a real fantasy series if it has been delayed further, anyhow. All the cool kids are doing it ;)

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