George RR martin faults...

[Isis]

Poor Isis- I can certainly understand your gripe. For instance, Rowlings HP(ducking just in case)

Is "reckon" a popularly used word in England. State side that's not a commonly used word by the educated. That drove me crazy throughout reading the books. So much that everytime I saw it I substituted it in my mind.

So I understand where you are coming from.

I reckon it is. No, really. The word 'reckon' is commonly used in England today. I think it may possibly be used to suggest either more rural (but not ignorant) or older characters in literature. It also had frequent slang usage when I was growing up though, so to my generation it is a normal part of the national vocabularly. It wouldn't have any instant negative connotations for English readers I don't think.

Oops. Didn't explain that well. But, I would use 'reckon' almost interchangably with 'think' in dialogue.

[Maia]

Hm... GRRM's main faults as a writer of ASOIAF are:

Too slow time progression - the events so far could have easily covered twice as long a timespan and in fact often it is completely implausible that things could be happening with such a lightening speed in a medievalish society on a continent the size of South America.

Overabundance of cliffhangers - which make inserting necessary time gaps difficult, BTW, and eventually become rather annoying.

Overabundance of fake deaths.

Overabundance of child/teen POVs.

[Marcher Lord]

of course Martin uses "American" words.....he is American. He wouldnt use words he isnt comfortable with. Just like an English (or any other type) author wouldnt try to write (and sell) books in Europe written in American terms.......i mean, it could be done, but at what amount of pain to the man writing the story?

if he is like alot of americans, he would laugh himself silly everytime he had to write "mum" or "bum" or whatever. We just arent used to it.

Imagine Jaime's thoughts: "Lancel stuck it up Cerci's bum"

as far as Martins faults? cant really say....he has kept my attention since i was a freshman in high school. I can easily get into his books, and well...even his slowest book (AFFC) is better than pretty much the majority of the crap out there.

But, if i HAD to pick? well, i hate Dany.....i think that he has made it to easy for her. Sure youll hear defenders sayin she was sold to a horselord and all that crap (rough childhood). Everything has fallen into her lap. And whats worse, she seems destined to overthrow the mighty lords we have come to love and hate at the drop of a hat.

Which hopefully means she will die a horrible death at sea on the way over:)

[Moosicus]

words like "nuncle" and "groat" and "dugs" that suddenly pop up in AFFC when they hadn't been used before in the series. Maybe there was no opportunities earlier to use groat (since i'm not too sure what it is...a coin of some type?) but people have certainly been around their uncles and there has been no lack of tit-talk in the series. Otherwise Martin is the absolute king.

[Ran]

A groat is a type of coin. The use of it in AFfC is a reflection of the fact that after ASoS GRRM decided to work out the system of currency in Westeros a bit more thoroughly, and I guess when he works out something like that he doesn't see much reason not to actually use it.

"Dugs" has been used in AGoT (the crones of the dosh khaleen are described as having "withered dugs".

As to folks being around their uncles, the only persons who've had any significant contact and conversation with uncles they are familiar with and where the relationship is either a bit standoffish or a bit whimsical (rather than purely respectful and/or dutiful), are Asha, Jaime, and probably Tyrion.

And Tyrion spent very little time indeed with Kevan in either AGoT or ASoS, so there wasn't a lot of occasion.

Cat with Brynden, Robb with Edmure, Theon with Damphair and Victarion -- those are the kinds of relationships where it's no surprise if the rustic, whimsical/mocking "nuncle" wouldn't be used.

But that Tyrion could well have used it -- may still use it, I suppose, if he ever has a chat with Kevan again -- is a fair point.

[Pellegrina]

of course Martin uses "American" words.....he is American. He wouldnt use words he isnt comfortable with. Just like an English (or any other type) author wouldnt try to write (and sell) books in Europe written in American terms.......i mean, it could be done, but at what amount of pain to the man writing the story?

if he is like alot of americans, he would laugh himself silly everytime he had to write "mum" or "bum" or whatever. We just arent used to it.

But doesn't Martin use "arse" (a more British term) in preference to "ass" (more US)? "Bum" would sound silly to me because it sounds childish, rather than because it sounds English!

[The Stranger]

to add more fuel to a pointless debate, in thailand I briefly lived with 13 americans and 14 brits, with a norwegian thrown in for spice. I finally got used to "reckon" as a substitution for amerenglish "think," but in the cups one night I told my buddy phil why I found it so humorous; in amerenglish, it's a staple part of the backwoods southern dialect.

he was not amused. I was. the norwegian, who had learned british english and therefore used "reckon" found it even more hilarious.

Hansjarle: "You mean I speak like an american hillbilly? Man, that's great!"

as for Martin: given the number of child PoVs he uses, I don't think he's terribly good at writing children. it's not a matter of perspective--I think he does that remarkably well. it's a matter of word usage, and most of his children, both speaking and thinking, have very precocious vocabularies. the glaring example against this, Sansa's use of "tummy," just annoys the living hell outta me.

yes, yes, I know medieval children grew up quickly, but I still find it jarring as a reader.

[Devil Hanzo]

Everyone eats alot of onions....

[Ser Vlad]

as for Martin: given the number of child PoVs he uses, I don't think he's terribly good at writing children. it's not a matter of perspective--I think he does that remarkably well. it's a matter of word usage, and most of his children, both speaking and thinking, have very precocious vocabularies. the glaring example against this, Sansa's use of "tummy," just annoys the living hell outta me.

Eh? I don't think the use of "tummy" is precocious, since Sansa was what 12? in AGoT? I've never used words like "tummy" - it depends on the way you're raised much more than anything else, and if you're never exposed to baby-ish words (which I assume Westerosi children aren't) then this would explain a perceived adult-ish vocabulary.

Besides, I spoke and wrote like an adult at 14, so it's not so hard believe.

[The Stranger]

Eh? I don't think the use of "tummy" is precocious, since Sansa was what 12? in AGoT? I've never used words like "tummy" - it depends on the way you're raised much more than anything else, and if you're never exposed to baby-ish words (which I assume Westerosi children aren't) then this would explain a perceived adult-ish vocabulary.

Besides, I spoke and wrote like an adult at 14, so it's not so hard believe.

Vlad, try reading my point again, before you quote me.

yes, I know tummy isn't a terribly precocious word. in fact, that's why I mention it as the *exception.* reading further, you'll see that's why it annoys me--because most of the time he gives his character the vocab of lil' adults, then he turns around and gives one of his elder children an obsession with a 5 year old's word.

also, way to get in another plug about how bright you think you are

[Ser Vlad]

Vlad, try reading my point again, before you quote me.

yes, I know tummy isn't a terribly precocious word. in fact, that's why I mention it as the *exception.* reading further, you'll see that's why it annoys me--because most of the time he gives his character the vocab of lil' adults, then he turns around and gives one of his elder children an obsession with a 5 year old's word.

Bah, I need to skim less. I read "example for" instead of "example against" which really changes the meaning of the entire paragraph. I say it more as an emphasis on the innocence of Sansa, i.e. her childishness when compared with Bran and Arya among other things. But maybe you're right.

also, way to get in another plug about how bright you think you are

Well, there's that, but I wanted to point out more than it's possible for kids to develop their vocabularies quickly, since I did. Taking into account a Westerosi culture that may not have the baby-ish words that we do, and we can explain away part of the precocious vocabularies of the children.

[The Stranger]

another annoying thing: I don't think GRRM works with the mechanics of human language very well. he's admitted before that he wishes he spoke other languages, but can't. combined with his saying, "Oh, tolkien was a linguist. I'm not." I think westeros is a bit artificial linguistically speaking.

at the very least, I think the regions should have strong dialects, and we don't get that, except for the wildlings, maybe. the dornish are finally described as having an accent in AFFC, but I want more o' the same. given their unique history, the dornish should at least have strong regional vocabulary, as should the Northmen, and possibly the Islanders.

I think GRRM is conscious enough of these disparities to creating unique naming conventions, esp. re: the north, the isles and dorne, but I wish he pushed it further and had some real linguistic distinction within westeros.

[Arbor Gold]

I hate the word "nuncle". Can't stand it. That's about it.

Plus everytime two characters meet up they pour wine. Or mead. Or a horn of ale, whatever. Totally makes me want to drink. And eat bread and cheese. Yum. Where can I get my hands on some milk of the poppy?

I guess I am too weak and the power of suggestion is too strong.

[yourcockandballs]

His one thing that bothers me is that when he introduces a new character that he's only going to use for a short time (a chapter or two), it's very formulaic. He always brings up some flaw or "subplot" and hints at it a bit (very vague spoilers: Rosey, Chett's village girl, Victorian's fists) before revealing it, and then kind of drags it along as a token flaw. It's alright every once in awhile, but yeah...it's formulaic. When he uses a character for longer he develops them a lot further and won't do it, but with the short ones he does this.

And his "I'll give you too much info but not enough" I can't really explain this but it gave me mental blue balls in AFoC.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Isis - It is a real jolt to me as well to be coasting blissfully along in a mostly medieval setting (even if it's fantasy) and suddenly have phrases that sound geographically specific to the US. "Pants" doesn't bother me quite so much - just because modern Brits use trousers doesn't mean it's automatically the more "authentic" word, as in some cases American English has preserved archaisms that British English has lost. (Just don't ask me to name examples right now, as all I can think of is Appalachian folk music surviving in a form closer to the originals.) "Mom" on the other hand really bothered me - not so much because it sounds American, but because it sounds so late twentieth century American and goes with kids in sneakers. "Mum" would bother me almost as much by sounding too twee and English.

I also get jolted a bit by the occasional Americanisms. One of the songs in ASOIAF (I think it's one by Tom of Sevenstreams) features the word "lass" rhyming with "grass", a rhyme which depends entirely on the accent it gets pronounced in. In this part of the English-speaking world the two words don't rhyme, which not only made the song sound awkward to me, but which also suddenly gave me the image of all the characters speaking with American accents.

[yourcockandballs]

to add more fuel to a pointless debate, in thailand I briefly lived with 13 americans and 14 brits, with a norwegian thrown in for spice. I finally got used to "reckon" as a substitution for amerenglish "think," but in the cups one night I told my buddy phil why I found it so humorous; in amerenglish, it's a staple part of the backwoods southern dialect.

Btw, reckon is actually a German-derived word I believe, I don't know why it's so concencrated in the south but I'm pretty sure it was used in Old English and German.

edit: oops, other people already pointed out it's still used in England :X

[maestro]

Only thing I would say he should've changed are the ages. Most of the kids seem to be a few years too young for their actions. Anyway, it's his story and I think it's the best I've read so far.

[Banipal]

My only quibble would be that the story is getting looser as it progresses. There are too many minor characters and subplots, which is killing the suspense for me. I have this fear that the Star Wars Syndrome is taking over ASoIaF. One needs to be a master of the "expanded universe" in order to figure out what's going on. I want to just be able to read and enjoy the story. I don't want to have to research websites to remind myself who is who and what is going on.

When reading AGOT, I felt like I was on a freight train headed for an awesome climax. With AFFC, I feel like I am on a leisurely stroll, but I don't know where I'm going.

[yourcockandballs]

My only quibble would be that the story is getting looser as it progresses. There are too many minor characters and subplots, which is killing the suspense for me. I have this fear that the Star Wars Syndrome is taking over ASoIaF. One needs to be a master of the "expanded universe" in order to figure out what's going on. I want to just be able to read and enjoy the story. I don't want to have to research websites to remind myself who is who and what is going on.

When reading AGOT, I felt like I was on a freight train headed for an awesome climax. With AFFC, I feel like I am on a leisurely stroll, but I don't know where I'm going.

I had this too, although I feel the next book is going to somehow funnel it together and I really hope it will. You're putting into words my "too much info yet not enough" feeling I was getting but couldn't explain.

[Bob]

Most of the things that bother me have been discussed already; all from the language ticks (nucle...

What's with the 'nuncle' hate? It's in Shakespeare and doubtless other early modern English.