Cricket IV

[Horza]

It ain't that long. After White Lee's good for an hour or two and a half-ton with a bit of luck, but Johnson and Siddle are strictly support. Need big things from Haddin and Watson to get out of this one.

[delete this account pls]

India are in the driver's seat, and deserve to be. It's not a foregone conclusion, but both Clarke and Haddin need to play against their natural style to save the match. One of them (evcen both of them) need to bat for the entire day.

[Jeor]

I think Stuart Clark may still be the real deal, but Brett Lee's sudden loss of form isn't very encouraging. Both of them (plus Johnson) are capable of bowling extremely well, but the consistent performances of McGrath and Warne, and the ability to pull something extra out when needed is not really there.

It's not impossible to save the match. As India's second innings showed, as well as the 80-odd partnership between Haddin and Clarke, it is still quite possible to make some scores on this pitch. It isn't wearing down much and the only real gremlins were the ball that kept low to get Hussey out, and maybe Sharma's inswinging ball to Ponting. Batsmen also have the benefit of being able to call for the light as well; no idea what the light is like, mind you. If Haddin and Clarke can survive the first session, and a couple of Indian fielders end up dropping catches, then things will start to get tense and you could see India start to go off the boil. But it's unlikely.

Anyway, India have the luxury of not having to worry about the runs. Australia aren't going to get another 350+ runs in one day, and even if by some miracle they look like doing it, India can go into the go-slow operation and slow over rates down (as every team does when it's in that position). But I expect the match will probably be over before tea.

[IheartTesla]

What is this I keep hearing about a spat between Lee and Ponting? I was reading the Daily Telegraph (I know, its a tabloid) which mention that Lee was pissed because he wasnt given a bowl.

[DemonKing]

Well, it seems the Aussies may have been a little hard done by given that Ganguly was incorrectly ruled in when on 35 in the first innings and that decision could have changed the whole complexion of the match, however that's cricket I guess (would have been nice if the umpire had bothered to check with the 3rd umpire though...).

I'm fully expecting Australia to go through an extended period of being average from now. While India has more long term potential in their bowlers, they're very shortly going to have an extremely inexperienced middle order, which will keep them back with the pack.

I do suspect that South Africa might be able to mount a strong challenge to the Aussies when they tour later this year...

I assume Ponting is just treating Lee like he did Gillespie during the 2005 Ashes...without confidence.

[Jeor]

[quote name='DemonKing' post='1562346' date='Oct 21 2008, 15.20']Well, it seems the Aussies may have been a little hard done by given that Ganguly was incorrectly ruled in when on 35 in the first innings and that decision could have changed the whole complexion of the match.[/quote]

Well, to be fair, Shane Watson was given not out when Sharma hit him absolutely plumb when he was in single figures, so I think it kind of evens out there. Hawkeye said the ball was hitting bang on middle stump about halfway up, and the commentators were bemused it wasn't given out; I think it was Rudi who missed that one.

Re: Lee and Ponting, I think it was Lee having a go at his captain for not bowling him. And true enough, I think he has a right to be pissed when Michael Hussey comes on to bowl earlier in the day than he did. ;) Ponting was probably worried about Lee's pace just feeding the Indians quick runs, but it's not as if the Hussey experiment tied them down.

Interesting shakeup with the PCB. Now Pakistan's cricket board has never been particularly well-run, but according to the new incoming chairman, the PCB budget only realised 5% of its projected incomes while maintaining 90% of its projected expenditures. He's probably overstating it just to cover himself when financial woes start descending upon him, but needless to say even if those figures are slightly off that's still a huge deficit. They had tours cancelled and the Champions Trophy called off so I guess their income took a massive hit, and it looks like they didn't exactly trim down their expenditures to suit. Compounding the problem was that the outgoing PCB boss apparently didn't buy insurance to cover the cancelled tours. Not a wise move.

There's mention the ECB might help them out by staging Pakistani Tests on English soil, with the PCB retaining 50% of the earnings made. It's going to have to be either that, or once again a country will have to lend itself out to the BCCI for money. Pakistan probably isn't going to stabilise anytime soon with the change of presidency and stock market annihilation going on there; apparently the country itself is very close to default and they need money from the IMF. Not good for Pakistani cricket.

[Rimmer]

Though it is just Bangladesh, it's a pretty amazing all-round performance for Vettori: 5/59 in the 1st innings, 55 not out in the 2nd, 4/74 in the 3rd, 76 runs in the 4th.

[Stubby]

[quote name='Jeor' post='1562413' date='Oct 21 2008, 17.31']Re: Lee and Ponting, I think it was Lee having a go at his captain for not bowling him. And true enough, I think he has a right to be pissed when Michael Hussey comes on to bowl earlier in the day than he did. ;) Ponting was probably worried about Lee's pace just feeding the Indians quick runs, but it's not as if the Hussey experiment tied them down.[/quote]

Ponting was quoted here this morning as saying that he had Hussey and White on to increase the over rate, but just forgot to tell Lee why he wasn't bowling. Sounds a bit lame to me but it is an explanation that doesn't allocate blame on anyone for being a bit silly about it.

[Jeor]

Nielsen then goes and says they wanted to take pace off the ball, instead of the over rate. The plot thickens. But I doubt it's anything really serious...when people are winning, no one notices these things, now that Australia in trouble, these things get blown up.

Apparently the Delhi curator is going to make his pitch a 'present' for Kumble, not that Kumble needs any extra help given his extraordinary record at the ground (55 wickets in 6 matches or something ridiculous like that). And it's not as if we have a spinner to exploit the pitch either, much as Cameron White has been tidy he hasn't been an attacking threat. I just looked at Krejza's first-class record and it's absolutely terrible. 43 wickets in 24 matches, with a Mohammad Sami-esque average of 50.09 and economy rate of 3.84. No wonder the Indians were tonking him around the park in the tour match.

Ponting's going to have to get used to using bowlers who are less than perfect and less consistent. If he gives the cold shoulder to anyone who has some off spells like he did in 2005 to Gillespie or to Lee now, he's soon going to have bowl himself at both ends. ;)

[DemonKing]

This one crept in under the radar a bit...apparently the life-ban on Saleem Malik being involved with cricket has been lifted:

[url="http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/pakistan/content/current/story/375092.html"]Saleem plans to open a cricket academy[/url]

I for one think this is a shame and sets a bad precedent, however we are talking about Pakistani cricket that seem to impose, and overturn, bans based on which way the wind is blowing...

[Paxter]

Well, with the third test not far away, I thought I would vent my frustration at a couple of things:
1) Why the hell is Kumble going to be selected as captain? Not only did Dhoni make some excellent tactical decisions during the Mohali match, but he also seems to bat much better when the additional responsibility is on him. Kumble, in contrast, could benefit from some time concentrating on getting wickets without worrying about captaincy. His record in recent test matches is terrible. Very disappointing from the Indian selectors - and I think this might cost them.
2) Why is Cam White playing in this series? His contribution at 8 has been negligible and his bowling has been completely unthreatening. I think Australia would be much better served by picking an extra batsman (bowling attack is crap whether or not White is playing). A good WA boy would do the trick - Shaun Marsh is ideal given his IPL dominance. At the very least they could have brought another proper all-rounder on the tour (like Noffke) instead of a crappy, worse-than-Ashley-Giles shithouse spinner who is somehow expected to contribute with the bat at No. 8.

My prediction (or, at least, hope) for this match: Aus win. Just to make the fourth match interesting...


Edit: 3-296 at stumps! Great recovery from Tendulkar, Laxman and, of course, Gambhir. I wonder how many times a batsman has batted all day long against the Aussies. Great effort that - although this pitch is a batsman's paradise to say the least.

[Jeor]

[quote name='Paxter' post='1570181' date='Oct 29 2008, 01.44']Although this pitch is a batsman's paradise to say the least.[/quote]

Well, for the Indians it might be, but I suspect it will suddenly turn into a minefield when Australia have to bat. Let's not forget that India actually have proper spinners in their attack, plus pace bowlers who know how to use the old ball and make it move like Michael Jackson on speed. It seems that after the first 10 overs of the new ball, Australia is reduced to bowling pies. Every Indian batsman from 1-9 has made at least one half century in this series and we've only played two matches so far. Another big total looms, with both batsmen set and Ganguly and Dhoni still to come.

Kumble's being selected as captain because a demotion to a regular player would piss him off. He's a long-suffering servant of Indian cricket and it's clear the captaincy means a lot to him; taking it away would quite possibly have a big negative impact on his performance and on the team. I think it's quite possible that he'll announce a surprise retirement at the end of this series anyway - Australians vanquished at home, the perfect setting. The selectors are probably gambling on that too.

Comparing White to Giles is a little unfair...White's batting is far superior to anything Giles could do. Admittedly his current bowling makes Ashley Giles look like a left-handed Murali. But it's clear to me that the White/Watson combo really isn't working. Apart from Watson's last innings, neither of them have made any meaningful contribution with bat or ball and their inclusion dilutes the bowling attack. If they were planning to go with part-time spinners they already have two in Katich and Clarke; no need to add a third. I'd much prefer a proper batsman (perhaps Marsh) and proper bowler (hard to guess for this one) as opposed to the two bitty players.

Anyway, what's done is done. As long as the attack continues to show all the incisiveness of a blunt spoon, Australia really isn't going to ever look like winning here in India. They might be able to post up some big scores to keep themselves in the hunt but they're not going to be able to finish it off with their bowling unless there's some big improvements.

[Paxter]

[quote name='Jeor' post='1571211' date='Oct 29 2008, 21.12']Comparing White to Giles is a little unfair...White's batting is far superior to anything Giles could do.[/quote]

The reason for the comparison with Giles is that he was the only spinner I could think of who was expected to do a "holding" job in a test match. SA's spinners (like Boje, Henderson and now Harris) also did/do a similar job. The problem is that unlike the four aforementioned players, White can't even play this holding role effectively, let alone take wickets. He is just not up to scratch at test level and doesn't deserve his place in the side.

Of course, White is a far better batsman than Giles. However, I think you could argue that, at No. 8, it will be difficult for White to make too many more runs than Giles. The only way he can actually bat for any length of time in that position is if Haddin keeps him company.

As for the Kumble issue: since when has "pissing someone off" - even a great player like Kumble - ever been more important than winning a test series? If Dhoni is the right man for the job (and he undoubtedly is), then he should get it. Kumble should be mature enough to realise that the team's performance is far more important than any one player's.

[Jeor]

Well, I'd argue that pissing Kumble off could have caused enough collateral damage to cancel out any advantages that would have been had by changing the captaincy. Kumble had a bad match in the first Test as captain, Dhoni had a great one. That isn't a huge sample space to use to change it, and for a team that has so many veterans in it, I'm really not sure that the captaincy is that important anyway.

I think the captaincy issue is only being brought up because of the individual performances of the players. Kumble hasn't been in good form, while Dhoni was in scintillating form with the bat. Somehow the media has latched onto those performances and translated it into some captaincy battle, as if the individual performances were somehow related to captaincy skills. If they want to talk about swapping the captaincy, they should talk about the more relevant things like field settings, bowling changes, etc. Now admittedly Dhoni has done better at those than Kumble; but I'm not convinced he's done better by such a huge amount that it demands a change mid-series and the humiliation of India's most senior player and greatest ever bowler.

[Paxter]

[quote name='Jeor' post='1571780' date='Oct 30 2008, 07.46']Kumble had a bad match in the first Test as captain, Dhoni had a great one. That isn't a huge sample space to use to change it, and for a team that has so many veterans in it, I'm really not sure that the captaincy is that important anyway.[/quote]

You're forgetting that we have a much larger sample size than just two test matches. Kumble's captaincy was absolutely terrible during the Sri Lanka series which India lost, but when Dhoni took over in the one-dayers India were a completely different proposition. His leadership takes the team's performance to a new level.

[quote name='Jeor' post='1571780' date='Oct 30 2008, 07.46']I think the captaincy issue is only being brought up because of the individual performances of the players.[/quote]

Not true. The captaincy issue is being brought up because India wins when Dhoni captains and loses when Kumble captains. It's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with individual performances (in fact, Dhoni's form has been pretty ordinary up until that second test match).

[quote name='Jeor' post='1571780' date='Oct 30 2008, 07.46']Now admittedly Dhoni has done better at those than Kumble; but I'm not convinced he's done better by such a huge amount that it demands a change mid-series and the humiliation of India's most senior player and greatest ever bowler.[/quote]

India drew the first test match (barely) but comfortably won the second. Is that not "a huge enough amount"? Surely winning is far more important to Kumble than a bit of lost face? Anyway, we will see how Kumble's captaincy goes in this match. Until then I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Jeor]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. ;)

[quote]Anyway, we will see how Kumble's captaincy goes in this match. Until then I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.[/quote]

This whole time you've been arguing he shouldn't have been captain and Dhoni should be put in, it's why we're having this conversation in the first place. I don't think you're really willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because you don't believe he should be there in the first place and you're looking for evidence - which is, of course, fine by the way. And you wouldn't be the only one - in fact, I'm fairly certain I'm in the minority when I say that Kumble being captain for the rest of this series is the right thing. Maybe I'm just being overly sentimental. ;)

[quote]India wins when Dhoni captains and loses when Kumble captains. It's as simple as that. India drew the first test match (barely) but comfortably won the second. Is that not "a huge enough amount"?[/quote]

By 'huge enough amount' I meant in their captaincy, rather than in the results. I don't think it's as simple as that. While I don't doubt that their respective captaincy impacts on the games, to say that the captaincy is responsible for those vast outcomes is over-generalising the issue. It's like saying "Whenever Dwayne Bravo plays, the West Indies lose 95% of the time, therefore Bravo shouldn't play". It's a true statistic, and it's also true that the West Indies won some matches when Bravo was out of the team; but I'm not convinced the two things (in this case, Bravo playing and the Windies losing) are so intimately related that you can make a call based on that statistic.

There's no doubt that Dhoni is a great captain, and a much sharper one than Kumble. I'm not really arguing that point because I think Dhoni's better as well. And there's no doubt that great captaincy can have an impact on a match. But I just don't think it was worth the trouble of upsetting the current team hierarchy and Kumble himself, especially when the potential collateral damage is so unpredictable. Kumble's already been pissed off by the press telling him to retire, I'm fairly sure that stripping him of the captaincy wouldn't go down well with him, professional gentleman or not. Now, if Kumble were as bad a captain as Hashan Tillekeratne ever was, then we'd be talking about huge differences worth changing. ;)

[Paxter]

[quote]There's no doubt that Dhoni is a great captain, and a much sharper one than Kumble. I'm not really arguing that point because I think Dhoni's better as well.[/quote]

Well, no need to agree to disagree then. I think that our views are very similar - it's just that you seem to think that Kumble is unprofessional/immature whereas I think he would come to realise just how important it is to win this series and to ensure that Dhoni gets his first test series win under his belt.

[quote]I don't think you're really willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because you don't believe he should be there in the first place and you're looking for evidence - which is, of course, fine by the way.[/quote]

I never said Kumble shouldn't be there in the first place. I'd rather seem him play than an injured Harbhajan.
But yeah, you're probably right on the point that I'm not really that willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on the captaincy issue. But I'll be forced to reconsider the evidence on the issue at the end of this test match because, whether I like it or not, he is the captain.

[Stubby]

India 3/433 - Is it football season yet?

[sh_wulff]

6/546

enjoying the series...:D

((yeah I'm un-aussie)

[Hereward]

I'd laugh, but we're playing India next. :wideeyed: