Cricket IV

[Paxter]

[quote name='Jeor' post='1579569' date='Nov 6 2008, 17.19']I am objecting to Krejza and White playing in the same team though; they don't need to. As it is, the bowling attack for this Test looks like this: two frontline pace bowlers (Lee and Johnson), one frontline spinner (Krejza). That's it. And the spinner's making his Test debut too. After those three people are bits and pieces bowlers. Shane Watson is not a first-change bowler, even if he did happen to get a wicket this time, and he should not be the fourth bowler overall in a Test attack.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. There has been some truly terrible team selection from Australia on this tour. There is absolutely no need to play White in this team, he just doesn't fit at all. The only thing they got right is that they finally played a specialist spinner. If not for Krejza, I reckon Sehwag would have made a massive score today. In fact, today was probably some of the best bowling we have seen from the Aussies for some time. They are still in the test match anyway.

[Jeor]

Terrible fielding from Australia but in the end it only really cost them 30 runs or so, since they wre dropping Tendulkar when he'd already made a bunch of runs. Feel sorry for Krejza though; both drops were off him. Given his economy rate, it's vital that he keeps on getting wickets and Tendulkar's wicket would have made for a nice bag of four on his first day in Test cricket.

It's clear the Indians wanted to get on top of him right away, but he's bowled very well, especially considering it's the first day of a Test match, albeit in India. Despite Indian attempts to dominate him (and they were generally successful in pulling off their shots) he didn't get defensive and still gave the ball some air and turn, and I'm glad that Ponting didn't act skittish and pull him off after the first three overs, otherwise that could have damaged his confidence. There's no doubt that despite White having the better first-class record, Krejza is clearly the best spinner in the team. That's not saying much, but at least there's hope that Australia now has a proper spinner in the lineup, at least for this game.

India will probably be disappointed they didn't score more. Tendulkar out near the end of the day, and Sehwag looked to be firing on all cylinders until he got out. Depends on how Dhoni and Ganguly go tomorrow; if Australia can bowl India out for under 400 and start batting shortly after lunch, they'll start properly thinking of a win, since they know the batting can do the job. However, Lee still looks out of sorts and Johnson is mixing lots of harmless balls in with the odd good one, so the jury is still out on whether Australia can get 20 wickets.

[Hereward]

Looks like Ian Botham has decided it's time to start the Ashes festivities.

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/7713794.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/7713794.stm[/url]

Can't wait!

[Paxter]

[quote name='Hereward' post='1580018' date='Nov 7 2008, 02.41']Looks like Ian Botham has decided it's time to start the Ashes festivities.

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/7713794.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/7713794.stm[/url]

Can't wait![/quote]

This really is ridiculous. After getting thumped 5-0 last time around, and then getting beaten quite comfortably by RSA [i]at home[/i] in their most recent test series, Botham thinks that England are going to win "easily"?? Give me a break. There is no doubt that Australia's team is a shadow of its former self with the losses of Langer, Gilchrist, McGrath and Warne from the last Ashes-winning team. The only problem for England is that they are just as bad now as they were during the last Ashes series. And the recent South Africa series highlighted that fact for me. If England were as strong now as they were in 2005, they probably would win easily against the current Australian team. But their current team will have to improve a substantially in the next few series for me to believe they will win "easily".

BTW, I am not for a minute doubting that it will be a competitive series (and I hope very much that this is the case), but I think Botham is going way over the top here.

[DemonKing]

Botham must be having a laugh...didn't England get thrashed by a team of mainly no names from the West Indies just this week - hell, I had to look up half the superstars team on cricinfo as I'd never heard of them.
I'm pretty sure with a $million on the line I'd be training/preparing like I'd never been doing before (apparently what the Superstars team did...funny that), but instead England got caught up in Tabloid stories back home "Oh No - my bimbo wife sat on a a Billionaire's lap". Boo Hoo...if he's really that rich you're lucky she wasn't blowing him.

Next year's Ashes will be competitive but it won't be a slaughter either way, IMO. I think the Aussies will struggle to take enough wickets to win but their batting will still be pretty strong - as long as the England team don't start reversing it like crazy again!

Also how come Hauritz missed out on this tour. He may not be the greatest spinner around but at least he's played in India before and managed a few wickets there (albeit on a diabolical pitch where Clark got 6/9...)

[sckma]

Jason Crazyier just took 8 wickets.... on DEBUT!! faar out. it has got to be a combination of the pitch, good balls, and batsmen underestimating him and trying to smash him out of the attack. But no-one could've predicted this, especially since he did get tonked.

My mind is still boggling from this. I wonder if harbhajhan will do as well?

[sh_wulff]

[quote]I wonder if harbhajhan will do as well?[/quote]

I hope so... got a soft spot for him

[Paxter]

[quote name='sckma' post='1580939' date='Nov 7 2008, 16.50']My mind is still boggling from this. I wonder if harbhajhan will do as well?[/quote]

Interesting question. So far he has been pretty average, and he is one of those bowlers who, if he doesn't get an early wicket, can start bowling too fast and too straight. For him to be successful he is going to have to learn a few lessons from the debutant - i.e. flight the ball, rip it hard and bowl outside off-stump.

[Hereward]

Of course Botham's having a laugh. Getting worked up about it seems a little odd, especially considering the Aussies long and proud tradition of pre-series trash talking! Though, admittedly, the Aussies usually have far better reason to make wild predictions.

Pointing to a 20/20 match as a reason why England are poor is also a little odd. Under Vaughan, England were a poor limited overs side even as they defeated everybody in Tests. Not much has changed.

[DemonKing]

[quote name='Hereward' post='1580977' date='Nov 7 2008, 21.03']Pointing to a 20/20 match as a reason why England are poor is also a little odd.[/quote]

Well it wasn't just any 20/20 match...if you can't step up and play your best game with a $million on the line when will you?

Also, the fact that they lost against a team of which half were virtual no-names, by 10 wickets with 44 balls to spare tips it from a "oh well toddle pip lads limited overs is a lottery anyway" into slaughter territory.

Sure it's no indication of test form but it does reveal the mindset of the team somewhat.

BTW Krezja's 8 for is indeed Krazy - particulalry considering he went for more runs in an innings than any other debutant. Wonder if he will get another game or go the way of Hauritz after this tour?

[Hereward]

[quote name='DemonKing' post='1580983' date='Nov 7 2008, 10.13']Well it wasn't just any 20/20 match...if you can't step up and play your best game with a $million on the line when will you?[/quote]

When the Aussies come to visit.

Yes, they were massacred, but it means nothing in terms of Test cricket, unless the whole ridiculous circus has damaged team spirit.

PS "oh well toddle pip lads"

WTF?

[Paxter]

[quote name='Hereward' post='1580977' date='Nov 7 2008, 19.03']especially considering the Aussies long and proud tradition of pre-series trash talking![/quote]

Don't worry, when Aussies say things like this I get equally pissed off. It's a two-way street, that's for sure.

BTW Hereward: I agree that the 20/20 games mean nothing in terms of Test cricket, but you must admit that England's most recent home test series was absolutely woeful,and that doesn't bode well for the next Ashes. Compare that to the Aussies who haven't lost a test series on home soil during the entire 8 years that I have been watching cricket.

Side-note: Aussies getting themselves into a good position in this match now. I would say they are at least on level pegging now, if not slightly ahead in the game. India are going to have to work their butts off to win this series.

[Jeor]

I'm not sure that India are going to have work their butts off to win the series - after all, they only need to draw this game. As long as they can bowl Australia out for 450 (and there's still a long way to go before we can get there), they get to bat again, and Australia have to bat last. Even with Krejza's 8 wickets, the Australian attack hasn't suddenly rocketed up to lethal potency again. We're still playing with a crappy bowling lineup - only three frontline bowlers, with Lee still looking quite underdone and Krejza being hideously expensive notwithstanding his wickets. Australia need to get a lead of 100 before they can think about winning the game, because it will take them time (and probably runs) to bowl India out.

Looking forward to the Ashes and keeping you company, Hereward! The time when we (and a bunch of others of course) were on the old ezboard and ended up having one complete thread of 300+ posts per Test match has to be some of the most enjoyable discussion I've had on this board. Your doomsday outlook on the England team (even when you were beating us) was always entertaining, and I'm glad we could always share a light-hearted laugh about the state of things (and contentious umpiring decisions). ;)

Paxter, Australia haven't lost a home series since the one to the West Indies in 1993 (probably about the time I started seriously following cricket as a wee lad). But I'm really not putting much stock into England's form right now, or Australia's form right now either. There's still over 6 months to go and each side has (I think) at least three Test series to play before then. Plenty of time to correct whatever happens in the current calendar year and to bring in new blood we may not even have heard of yet. I think both sides will be playing better than they have been, and ever since Ashes 2005 I've been wary of England at home playing in their seaming/swinging conditions.

Besides, I think recent form kind of goes out the window in an Ashes series and things can turn around even mid-series. I recall that we were meant to win the 1997 series, and Taylor captained Australia to a disastrous start. I think we lost all three one-dayers before the Tests began, in the First Test we got thrashed by 9 wickets, Second Test was a draw (England were in the stronger position), but then everything went upside down and we won the next three handily after everyone was doing an about-face on pre-series predictions and now forecasting a complete thrashing by Atherton's side. I think Atherton wrote that it was the series he had the most regrets about.

Regarding Botham...quite frankly, I'd be rather surprised if Sir Ian predicted anything other than a thumping English victory. ;)

[Hereward]

Happy days! I remember predicting, to much mirth, a very close series. I still couldn't help my long experience of disappointment leading me to make constantly pessimistic predictions during the actual matches themselves, though. Shame I won't be able to watch at work this time around, since Sky now has the rights.

As for our chances, it is very difficult to predict. Australia have lost better players than England, but they always have an edge in terms of confidence and fighting spirit. England lack depth, as well. On the plus side, we have Monty instead of the King of Spain, and we're no longer carrying Vaughan. On the downside, we've lost Trescothick, Strauss is in a long-term slump, we still don't have a wicketkeeper and Simon Jones is not a risk we can take. If the ball swings, Freddie and Harmison stay in form, and Pietersen and Bell score heavily, we could do well. But I'm not putting any money on it.

[IheartTesla]

Joy! The Indian cricket team attempts to throw away a 1-0 series lead yet again. Listen to your sports psychologist, n00bs.

I find the too-forward looking of some in English cricket a bit off-putting. They still have a tough tour of India ahead. I understand the historical significance of the Ashes and the place it holds amongst English/Oz fans, but still. It would be nice to show some respect for other matches as well. I heard a bit from Pietersen about the Ashes but relatively less about what he thinks the Indian tour is going to be like.

[Hereward]

I think it's a bit harsh to ascribe a lack of respect. That's the, possibly unfixable, problem with Test cricket. There's no real point to any individual series other than the one that comes to be ascribed to it. In the absence of a Test championship, it's only if India ever become the undisputed kings of Test cricket that the series will gain glamour and significance. No-one really cared about the South Africa or New Zealand series, either. Not sure what can be done about that.

PS Suddenly occurs to me that it's worth mentioning, in respect of the tour of India, that it's a very recent change that England play Test matches overseas. When I was a kid, England only played at home. Now I know that MCC conducted overseas tours, but to me, at least, that didn't amount to the same thing. Add the fact that, even then, only the overseas Ashes tour attracted so much as televised highlights, and it's much more understandable.

[Jeor]

I agree with Hereward in that Test cricket just has the inherent problem of always being a 'relative' thing, since there's no absolute measure of success. There's the Test championship table but I don't think people pay that much attention to it, since it's basically a number crunching exercise where teams can go up or down the tables without having even played each other.

Each Test series pretty much relies on history to carry it through, and that doesn't even carry much weight with certain series anymore - eg, Australia vs West Indies is a shadow of what it once was. But I don't really know how you'd make Tests more meaningful, since they're over 5 days so a tournament is rather impractical. In my own personal point of view, I think these are probably the best series to watch for:

The Ashes (England vs Australia)
Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Australia vs India)
Anything India vs Pakistan
South Africa vs England

Some other series have had really good contests over the years but are fading - such as the Frank Worrell trophy (Australia vs West Indies) and the England vs Windies series.

[sh_wulff]

yeah watching the WIndies oin their hey day got me watching cicket

the current 4th test appears to be turning India's way

[IheartTesla]

Well, Flintoff did say some nice things about the series.

I expect Dhoni to have an 8-1 or 7-2 field tomorrow. Should be interesting to see if the Ozzies go for a 300+ score on the final day. The first session will be crucial as always.

[delete this account pls]

Well, the match is there for Australia to win but it won't be easy. Ponting's bowling choices after tea when India were seemingly on the ropes, was baffling though - Hussey, WTF? I hope India go on the attack rather than try to slow things down because it's been a pretty boring match (and series) so far.