U.S. Politics I

[Foreverlad]

Thought a new thread for politics might be in order, helping to reduce some of the other threads (supposing it's ok with the mods).

Found this article in the [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/08/AR2008110801856.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=new"]Washington Post[/url]. It's pretty amazing how quickly things can be done, under the right circumstances.

[quote]Transition advisers to President-elect Barack Obama have compiled a list of about 200 Bush administration actions and executive orders that could be swiftly undone to reverse White House policies on climate change, stem cell research, reproductive rights and other issues, according to congressional Democrats, campaign aides and experts working with the transition team.

A team of four dozen advisers, working for months in virtual solitude, set out to identify regulatory and policy changes Obama could implement soon after his inauguration. The team is now consulting with liberal advocacy groups, Capitol Hill staffers and potential agency chiefs to prioritize those they regard as the most onerous or ideologically offensive, said a top transition official who was not permitted to speak on the record about the inner workings of the transition.[/quote]


(Note: signup for the Washington Post may be required. It's free, but if you're not interested in signing up, I can PM you the article, unless it's okay to post in full here, which I do believe it's not.)

[Tears of Lys]

Glad to see they're moving quickly. :thumbsup:

[Andhaira]

Don't underestimate cheney &co. I doubt they will go quietly, without some 'measures' of their own in place.

ANyone know of the status of whether they are to beimpeached or not? They ought to be IMO for all the bloodshead and devastation thay have caused in the world.

[LindaElane]

I would be against the continued use of "general threads", as they cut back vastly on the number of folk who can discuss US politics. As you can see, the board is not currently clogged with political threads.

I personally do not have time to check the board for around an hour each day for the sake of picking up on parts of a "general political thread" that I might be interested in.

Talking about politics on the borrd is a great joy for me, but I need specific topics, not general ones.

I was greatly looking forward to talking about politics again as I was unable to participate in the general election threads. They mounted up to over 100 posts a day at times and I did not have time to read all of the posts in order to talk about the aspects that I was interested in.

By all means, continue with this thread, but I hope it will not generate part 2, and beyond. The mods have ruled that we must have a general election thread, but the election is over.

I hope people will choose specific thread topics, whether political or not, and start threads about them. Threads which folk are not interested in do go quickly off the first page. Threads which folk are interested in deserve a separate life, imo.

Perhaps there will be an aspect of US Politics on this thread that someone is fascinated by and know a lot about. Perhaps real contributions could be made. But the interested party will not know that this topic has come up, because they don't choose to spend a part of every day readying a "general politics" thread.

True, US politics is hot right now, but only about a quarter of the general chatter threads deal with it. When you consider the separate forum for entertainment, I do not think this is anywhere near overcrowding.

Bottom line: I believe many worthy posters will not be able to participate in this thread because they have a life and cannot read *everything* said about US Politics in order to discuss the topic they are interested in.

Thanks for listening to my 2 cents.

[Annelise]

Here's a report on where the center of the country lies:

[quote]The issues covered in this report include the following:

The role of government - Americans support an active government that tackles problems, provides services, and aids those in need.

The economy - Americans support increasing the minimum wage and strong unions, and believe the wealthy and corporations don't pay their fair share of taxes.

Social issues - Americans support legal abortion and embryonic stem cell research; opinions on equal rights for women and gay Americans have grown dramatically more progressive in recent years.

Security - Americans support a progressive approach to national security, emphasizing strong alliances and diplomacy over the indiscriminate use of military force. On domestic security issues, progressive approaches to crime and gun control enjoy wide support.

The environment - By enormous margins, Americans favor strong environmental protections, a core progressive belief.
Energy - Americans support energy conservation and the development of alternative fuels.

Health care - Americans clearly favor universal coverage and are more than comfortable with government solutions to the health care problem.[/quote][url="http://mediamatters.org/progmaj/?f=h_top"]http://mediamatters.org/progmaj/?f=h_top[/url]

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Andhaira,

[quote name='Andhaira' post='1582950' date='Nov 9 2008, 07.21']Don't underestimate cheney &co. I doubt they will go quietly, without some 'measures' of their own in place.[/quote]

Watch for the black heliocopter.

;)

[quote]ANyone know of the status of whether they are to beimpeached or not? They ought to be IMO for all the bloodshead and devastation thay have caused in the world.[/quote]

It would take much longer than the two months left in their term to impeach and hold a trial to remove them from office. Impeachment doesn't make much sense at this point.

[Annelise]

More on the Russians:

[quote]Nov 9th, 2008 | MOSCOW -- Moscow will go ahead with its plan to station missiles near Poland only if the United States deploys missile defenses in Europe, a senior Russian diplomat said Sunday.

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Grushko, in remarks carried by the Interfax news agency, said if Washington halts its plans to deploy 10 missile interceptors in Poland and accompanying radar in the Czech Republic, Russia won't need to place short-range Iskander missiles in its western Kaliningrad region.

"These measures will only be implemented if the U.S. missile defense system is deployed," Grushko said, according to Interfax...

... Russian officials have dismissed the U.S. assurances that the prospective missile defense sites are intended to counter a potential missile threat from Iran, saying they would erode Russia's nuclear deterrent.

The Bush administration on Thursday sent Russia a new set of proposals intended to assuage Russian concerns, but Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov called them insufficient.

The U.S. proposals "fall short of the fundamental agreements that were reached earlier," Lavrov said after meeting with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Saturday in the Egyptian resort of Sharm el-Sheik, where they both attended Mideast peace talks.

Lavrov signaled that any final agreement would come only with the new U.S. administration. He said statements by Obama "instill hope that we can examine these questions in a more constructive way," the RIA-Novosti news agency reported.[/quote] [url="http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/world/2008/11/09/D94BGTV00_eu_russia_us_missile_defense/index.html"]http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/world/2008/1...ense/index.html[/url]


Thoughts on the best way to handle this? Or what folks think Obama will do?

[Arakasi]

There is going to be a lot of small political stuff, from Obama choosing cabinet, to Bush's last days, foreign policy stuff, etc that really aren't large enough for their own thread. It makes sense to consolidate them here.

[lokisnow]

I like separate threads myself for the cabinet, economy, taxes, dog, etc. I followed the GE threads but they siphoned an enormous amount of time, though I did occassionally skim posts.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I'd like to add my voice to those who thin' a single thread for U.S. Politics will not work. It is too broad a topic to confine to one thread.

[Mister Manticore]

I'd like to ask for a general tabling of all these chain threads for now.

The election's over. Wait till something important important comes up, then get a thread on it.

Either that, or forum a sub-forum for it.

[IheartTesla]

How about some international reactions to Obama's victory:

[quote]"Someone regarded by the (American) Republican right as a crypto-communist has become the leader of the world's greatest power ... and al Qaeda are rubbing their hands with glee that the new president wants peace, not war," Artur Gorski of the opposition Law and Justice (PiS) party told parliament last week.

"The black messiah of the new left has crushed the Republican candidate John McCain, and America will soon pay a high price for this quirk of democracy," he added.

"Obama is an approaching catastrophe. [b]This marks the end of white man's civilisation[/b]," he said in an address.[/quote]

Hehehehe....and not a moment too soon for you Gorski.

I wont go into that Austrian journalists remarks (they are pretty bad though), because he isnt a political person, and Berlusconi is well.....an idiot.

[Foreverlad]

I'm up for whatever. Just seems there's potential for quite a bit of crossover in the various threads. I can appreciate an interest in a strong single-topic thread, but was curious as to how much/little attention it may garner, especially when similar conversations spread across 5-10 threads.

This thread can die or be the new forum savior, it's all the same to me :P

[Inigima]

I don't think a single thread is a good idea in the long term, but for now I think we're still comfortably in a post-election period where a single thread is a good idea.

[Altherion]

[quote name='Annelise' post='1583088' date='Nov 9 2008, 18.54']Thoughts on the best way to handle this? Or what folks think Obama will do?[/quote]
My guess is that he'll say that it doesn't really work and/or we can't afford it right now (both are pretty close to the truth). The Polish president said claimed that he had committed to it, but Obama's office denied it and the Poles backtracked:

[i]The Polish president's office backtracked Sunday on a previous claim that U.S. president-elect Barack Obama had promised Poland to continue the Bush administration's multibillion-dollar missile defense program.

Presidential aide Michal Kaminski said Obama "made no declaration on missile defense." But Kaminski did not explain why Polish President Lech Kaczynski had claimed Saturday that Obama told him "the missile defense project would continue."
...
A foreign policy adviser for Obama, Denis McDonough, has denied Kaczynski's claim.

"President Kaczynski raised missile defense, but President-elect Obama made no commitment on it," McDonough said.[/i]
[url="http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/11/09/europe/EU-Poland-US-Missile-Defense.php"]http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/11/09/...ile-Defense.php[/url]

[Shryke]

Well, looks like Obama's already on track to help fix the economy.

Step One: [url="http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=pen6lLKhzHA"]Gun Shops[/url]

Since Obama was elected, gun sales have reached record levels.

Just think, all those stupid and/or ignorant people who think Obama is going to take away their guns are now ARMED stupid and/or ignorant people.

...

Ok, more then likely they are just BETTER ARMED stupid and/or ignorant people.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Annelise,

I wonder what the Russians will do if they think the new administration will back off if faced with agressive moves like moving missles to the Polish border? The theater anti missile system isn't designed to stop the kind of missile assault the Russians can launch. Pulling it out because the Russians don't like just shows we can be bullied.

[Altherion]

[quote name='Ser Scot A Ellison' post='1583334' date='Nov 10 2008, 01.24']The theater anti missile system isn't designed to stop the kind of missile assault the Russians can launch.[/quote]
Perhaps this is so, but the Russian media is most certainly not portraying it that way. It is not a difficult argument to make: whom else would an anti-ballistic system in Eastern Europe be aimed at? Iran? What does Iran have to do with Eastern Europe?

[Annelise]

[quote name='Ser Scot A Ellison' post='1583334' date='Nov 9 2008, 19.24']Annelise,

I wonder what the Russians will do if they think the new administration will back off if faced with agressive moves like moving missles to the Polish border? The theater anti missile system isn't designed to stop the kind of missile assault the Russians can launch. Pulling it out because the Russians don't like just shows we can be bullied.[/quote]

Don't disagree. Unless we can get something in return, beyond them abstaining from putting missles in western Kaliningrad. I don't know what that would be, but it seems the ideal to shoot for.. as opposed to a mutual pile-up. That said, I don't know the strategic worth our system -- is it a necessity or a luxury as far as practical defense? Or is it more a political pawn in the Russian game? And if Poland/Czech Republic are our only placement options.

ETA: From a NYT article:

[quote]Mr. Obama has options to distance himself from his hawkish remarks on Russia during the campaign, foreign policy experts said. For one thing, while he can continue to support the idea of Georgia becoming part of NATO, the reality is that for now the Europeans will not go along.

Beyond that, Mr. Obama could try to strike more benign agreements that Russians might find soothing, like pushing again for Russia’s entry into the World Trade Organization and working with Moscow toward a way out of the missile defense morass. One possibility would be to offer to delay deployment of a missile shield in Poland until an Iranian nuclear threat — which Washington says is its reason for existing — has actually materialized, instead of doing so immediately.[/quote][url="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/08/world/europe/08russia.html?em"]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/08/world/eu...8russia.html?em[/url]

[Malatesta]

[quote name='Ser Scot A Ellison' post='1583334' date='Nov 10 2008, 08.24']Pulling it out because the Russians don't like just shows we can be bullied.[/quote]

Really? And if North Korea started installing "anti-missile defense" sites in Mexico and Canada what do you think would happen?

Russia aren't the ones doing the bullying.