The Dangers of Downloading?

[Jon Targaryen]

I'll buy HBO and watch it there. I don't really know how HBO OnDemand works. If that means I can watch it at any time I'll do that; if it doesn't mean that then I'll use surfthechannel or some other source to watch the episodes again. I'll probably buy the DVDs to do my part to support the series, especially if they release the DVDs before the 2nd season is greenlit to gauge whether or not to okay a second season. I don't know if any network does that but if they do I'm definitely buying the DVDs.

[pablonohablo]

[quote name='superkick' post='1597579' date='Nov 23 2008, 05.29']most tv shows can be watched via the netwrosk website now anyways. So you dont even ahve to go through the rouble of downlaoding. I really dont think downlaoding television shows hurts networks all that much.[/quote]

I don't know how much downloading shows hurts networks, but my guess is that however much it does, it hurts places like HBO -- which operate entirely on subscriptions, not on advertiser revenue -- more. My concern isn't that downloading won't stop season 1 -- it obviously has nothing to do with whether or not season 1 is greenlighted. My concern is that, if enough folks don't pay to watch the series (especially through subscribing, but also through buying the DVDs) -- which is the only reliable way for HBO to measure how many people are watching -- then HBO will mistakenly assume that AGoT wasn't a hit and isn't worth paying a second season for. That's the possibility I'm worried about. I don't know if it will happen, but I think there's enough reason to worry that it might. Hence this thread.

[Matarreyes]

As I do not live in USA/GB or wherever those things appear quickly, I´ll download it as soon as possible. Yes. What else am I supposed to do? Salivate while everyone is discussing it here? If the series are any good, of course I will buy DVD when locally available. That will be like 2 years late, of course, and will never influence the 2nd season decision.

HBO and other USA channels should really take us bilingual overseas fans into account. All over the world, I should think we could sum up a bunch of (profitable) people. I buy books and DVDs on Amazon, but TV series are a pain. Even on pay Internet, you can´t download anything if you are from Europe.

[Darkness]

You are forgetting something important. Since HBO is creating the series I am guessing they also have the rights to sell it to other countries which will also make them a bit of money as well.

[phoenix_rising]

Great idea :idea: stay(go) to college , make more money...get hbo...duh

[Aoede]

[quote name='phoenix_rising' post='1598427' date='Nov 23 2008, 20.24']Great idea :idea: stay(go) to college , make more money...get hbo...duh[/quote]

Evidently phoenix rising is unfamiliar with the concepts of "student debts", "economic crisis", and "wanting to watch a TV series within a year of its broadcasting".

[Stark Raving Mad Wolf]

[quote name='pablonohablo' post='1598062' date='Nov 24 2008, 01.16']I don't know how much downloading shows hurts networks, but my guess is that however much it does, it hurts places like HBO -- which operate entirely on subscriptions, not on advertiser revenue -- more. My concern isn't that downloading won't stop season 1 -- it obviously has nothing to do with whether or not season 1 is greenlighted. My concern is that, if enough folks don't pay to watch the series (especially through subscribing, but also through buying the DVDs) -- which is the only reliable way for HBO to measure how many people are watching -- then HBO will mistakenly assume that AGoT wasn't a hit and isn't worth paying a second season for. That's the possibility I'm worried about. I don't know if it will happen, but I think there's enough reason to worry that it might. Hence this thread.[/quote]

I wouldnt worry too much. Downloading will happen and it will have some effect subscriptions to HBO and DVD sales. But most of HBO's other shows will face the same problem - so if HBO compares GOTs ratings to other current shows - it should be ok. I dont think they'll make the mistake of comparing it to a show like Sopranos at its height. If anything it will depend on the demographics. Older skewing shows tend to have less of a problem with downloads.

[whiteislemaiden]

My boyfriend and I have already talked about this very thing actually -- we would buy HBO just to support the series and as a "thank you" to HBO for making it. Which would mean we'd be buying cable, since right now we don't have cable. It's also very likely that we'd end up downloading episodes as well, because if we miss it when it's on we don't have Tivo ... however, I guess the main point is that we are willing to pay to watch it. Also, because of some of the obsessive fan tendencies I have, I would definitely buy the DVDs.

[Rimmer]

If HBO had some kind of service where non-US residents could pay to download the episodes on-line I'd sign up in a heart-beat. As it stands, I'll be downloading them as soon as I can, and buying the DVDs when they're available.

[usul]

arg we can't get HBO in Europe and espacially in France ... the shows are bought by local networks ... but at least 6 months after the diffusion in the US ....

[kimba]

The problem I see with downloading with the intent to purchase the DVDs is that HBO typically doesn't release the DVDs until about a month before the new season premieres. This means season 2 would already be committed, produced and ready to go by the time they release season 1 on DVD and realize the sales.

[Lady Cheesevillage]

[quote name='whiteislemaiden' post='1598525' date='Nov 24 2008, 00.59']My boyfriend and I have already talked about this very thing actually -- we would buy HBO just to support the series and as a "thank you" to HBO for making it. Which would mean we'd be buying cable, since right now we don't have cable. It's also very likely that we'd end up downloading episodes as well, because if we miss it when it's on we don't have Tivo ... however, I guess the main point is that we are willing to pay to watch it. Also, because of some of the obsessive fan tendencies I have, I would definitely buy the DVDs.[/quote]

I think you probably need to have a cable box to get HBO everywhere (we do in Colorado and did in Michigan) and most cable boxes are now DVRs which means that you can "record" your shows and watch them as many times as you like. Our HBO fee also automatically includes HBO On Demand, which basically means that we can watch any HBO program at any time after it airs in its initial time slot. Most shows have episodes up for the whole season and then through the rerun season until the new season starts. That's how we just watched all of True Blood in a period of two days. So need for a Tivo or downloading!

On Demand is seriously one of my favorite things ever. Having HBO series available whenever I want them is great, and Comcast has quite a few movies and tv series free with their basic digital cable package. (I know It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Survivor, Numbers are available On Demand, and there are three pages of other shows. The movies are usually old, but there are always gems buried in amongst the crap this weekend I watched Four Weddings and a Funeral and saw that they had a ton of James Bond available in the free offerings.) I loathe paying the cable company, but the product they offer really is improving all the time. If only they would institute a la carte purchasing of channels I would be 100% content. (Right now I can't get Bravo unless I pay for an additional "tier" of programming, and I'm too cheap to pay that much for just one channel I'd watch.)

[Kingthlayer!]

I don't have money to afford cable, atm, but i'll probably go to my friends house, or wait for the dvd's to come out. For people that live out side N. America and GB, you could just order the dvd off ebay or amazon, instead of downloading.

The problem that with downloading that hasn't been mentioned yet is that it's essentially cheating HBO out of money that they spent, and time, and hard work, on the series. Some people call that [i]stealing.[/i] Lack of a moral compass is probably why CD's and DVD's, movies tickets, and suchlike are so expensive anyway, because the company needs to make profit.

Anyway, i agree with the original poster, and hope that more people pay what's owed to HBO, so the series can go more than 2 seasons.

[Aoede]

[quote name='kimba' post='1599044' date='Nov 24 2008, 13.30']The problem I see with downloading with the intent to purchase the DVDs is that HBO typically doesn't release the DVDs until about a month before the new season premieres. This means season 2 would already be committed, produced and ready to go by the time they release season 1 on DVD and realize the sales.[/quote]

That's a good point. But if you assume that downloading is constant over different TV shows, how much of an impact would that make? I'm expecting at least [i]some[/i] increase, because of 1) the economy, and 2) the relatively larger proportion of Internet-savvy viewers... right?


EDIT: ooh, new post!
[quote name='Kingthlayer!' post='1599268' date='Nov 24 2008, 17.27']I don't have money to afford cable, atm, but i'll probably go to my friends house, or wait for the dvd's to come out. For people that live out side N. America and GB, you could just order the dvd off ebay or amazon, instead of downloading.

The problem that with downloading that hasn't been mentioned yet is that it's essentially cheating HBO out of money that they spent, and time, and hard work, on the series. Some people call that [i]stealing.[/i] Lack of a moral compass is probably why CD's and DVD's, movies tickets, and suchlike are so expensive anyway, because the company needs to make profit.[/quote]
Note that most of the downloaders have already professed desire to buy the DVD. Think about it this way: if you go to your friend's house to watch it, then you're still cheating HBO out of the money you could have paid them. In both cases, one person ("your friend" or "the person who puts the episode online") has paid for it, while the freeloader hasn't. The only difference between downloading and going to your friend's house is that you're watching them on different kinds of screen. For your further consideration: public libraries, which according to your logic are basically cheating publishing houses out of who knows how many dollars? (Eight dollars for a paperback, fifteen for a hardback...)

Also, I love your handle.

[Kingthlayer!]

I suppose you're right about watching at my friends house, except that putting it up on the internet makes it available to anyone who has the internet. bigger scale.

I guess the library thing makes sense too, but isn't there a special library license, or something? And i'm sure they take that stuff into consideration, and maybe even get rayalties. Big movies boast all the time about dvd sales and rentals. The loans from the library and rentals from the movie store would have a positive effect, while downloading (or watching at a friend's house) wouldn't.

Haha, thanks for the compliment...

[Aoede]

[quote name='Kingthlayer!' post='1599348' date='Nov 24 2008, 18.51']I suppose you're right about watching at my friends house, except that putting it up on the internet makes it available to anyone who has the internet. bigger scale.[/quote]
Readily conceded. However, I stand by the library analogy, which brings me to...

[quote]I guess the library thing makes sense too, but isn't there a special library license, or something? And i'm sure they take that stuff into consideration, and maybe even get rayalties. Big movies boast all the time about dvd sales and rentals. The loans from the library and rentals from the movie store would have a positive effect, while downloading (or watching at a friend's house) wouldn't.[/quote]
The royalties thing is certainly true for video rentals, but I have my doubts about its applicability to libraries. What I do know for sure is that for school libraries, it's pretty much a one-time purchase; sometimes librarians will even put advance readers' copies into the collection. It's also hard to see how public lending libraries could pay any royalties, since nowadays patrons are not charged for checking out books (and in the days when they WERE, nobody bothered about royalties >.>). They are mostly supported by local governments, and tend to be plagued with funding problems since said local governments have bigger fish to fry; fines, the only other source of money which could be called "steady", are a drop in the bucket. I checked Wikipedia to see if they had a nice prepackaged answer, but they didn't mention licenses or royalties.

[HT Reddy]

[quote name='Aoede' post='1599369' date='Nov 25 2008, 00.10']Readily conceded. However, I stand by the library analogy, which brings me to...
The royalties thing is certainly true for video rentals, but I have my doubts about its applicability to libraries. What I do know for sure is that for school libraries, it's pretty much a one-time purchase; sometimes librarians will even put advance readers' copies into the collection. It's also hard to see how public lending libraries could pay any royalties, since nowadays patrons are not charged for checking out books (and in the days when they WERE, nobody bothered about royalties >.>). They are mostly supported by local governments, and tend to be plagued with funding problems since said local governments have bigger fish to fry; fines, the only other source of money which could be called "steady", are a drop in the bucket. I checked Wikipedia to see if they had a nice prepackaged answer, but they didn't mention licenses or royalties.[/quote]

At least here in the UK, libraries do pay out to the authors each time a book is borrowed. It's a pittance, but it supplements some authors' incomes nicely, apparently.

I am a bit disturbed by the widespread accpetance of downloading. Even if you manage to argue that morally it is ok because you will buy the DVD, isn't it still illegal? Since when did it become ok to break the law? And why can't we just wait for the DVD or for local television channels to show it - surely it's no different from waiting for Dance to come out in paperback before buying it, which I assume most people will do.

[Aoede]

[quote name='HT Reddy' post='1599397' date='Nov 24 2008, 19.38']At least here in the UK, libraries do pay out to the authors each time a book is borrowed. It's a pittance, but it supplements some authors' incomes nicely, apparently.[/quote]
Interesting. I never knew that!

[quote]I am a bit disturbed by the widespread accpetance of downloading. Even if you manage to argue that morally it is ok because you will buy the DVD, isn't it still illegal? Since when did it become ok to break the law? And why can't we just wait for the DVD or for local television channels to show it - surely it's no different from waiting for Dance to come out in paperback before buying it, which I assume most people will do.[/quote]
Although I am not privy to the moral reasoning of everyone who (illegally) downloads things, I assume that it's something along the lines of breaking the speed limit for most. Please don't jump on me if I'm wrong; I'm guessing.

[HT Reddy]

[quote name='Aoede' post='1599408' date='Nov 25 2008, 00.47']Although I am not privy to the moral reasoning of everyone who (illegally) downloads things, I assume that it's something along the lines of breaking the speed limit for most. Please don't jump on me if I'm wrong; I'm guessing.[/quote]

No that's fine, I am not being judgmental, I am just a bit surprised about how widespread downloading seems to be (but then I am fairly computer illiterate so I don't know much about these things)

[Kingthlayer!]

[quote]No that's fine, I am not being judgmental[/quote]

Well I am!! :tantrum:

I'm not a library expert, but I wonder if they DO pay royalties on books. That would get kind of confusing, i think. I suppose you're right about the speed limit thing, but that doesn't make it any less illeagal. Downloading's just to darn easy. I've done it more than a few times, i sadly admit. We humans are lazy, downloadings easy, and it fits.

Anyway. I'll be buying the dvd.