Would you like a Targ back on the Throne?

[Grumpygoat]

[quote name='Winter Crow' post='1609560' date='Dec 4 2008, 17.19']What about Edmure sheltering his smallfolk? What about Ned Stark keeping perfect peace in the North?
Both of them even listen to sound advice (although, given, Ned don't always heed it). Stannis also keeps almost complete control over his men, and he certainly listens to the Onion Knight.

I'm not saying that any of them should be regent, but they're just examples of characters possessing the same merciful traits that Dany have.[/quote]

Edmure doesn't listen to sound advice. Edmure's a bit of a twit. But, yes, he had some care for his people. And, yes, Ned, too. Stannis and Davos are also decent in their own ways. But of them, only Stannis actually vied for the throne. Robb was fairly decent, too. But with the exception of Edmure, Dany's the only one who has especially made it a point to do some good in the world rather than try avenging slights and claim rights and all that. She's done some of that, too, but it's mixed in with her attempts at freeing slaves and the like.

And of those in a position to potentially rule, I still see her as the best candidate.

[quote]I'm almost positively sure that Dany would make a good regent, but face it, there's just to much trouble after the rebelion for the people to accept a Targ ruler (among the Nobles that is, since the smallfolk seem to like the idea of a Targ ruler).
And don't forget the Taint. A very bad trait for regent to have.[/quote]

Again, the "taint" is overstated. Particularly since Dany seems fine. Particularly since she's unlikely to create any more inbred Targaryens.

And as for the nobility, they don't want Stannis ruling, either. The Martells and Starks don't want the Lannisters ruling. The Tyrells want to be attached directly to the throne. The Greyjoys don't want anyone ruling over them. There's just as much trouble to be found in any of the other houses as there is with the Targaryens.

[quote]And you're right that she couldn't really do anything about her life with Drogo, but it was her who installed the very idea into his head from the first place. She certainly knew what the Dothraki was capable of, so she's still guilty of that in my eyes.[/quote]

That was, in part, due to Viserys prodding and as a gift for Viserys. And then there's the fact that Robert tried to butcher the baby in her belly, which reasonably would have set Dany off and did set Drogo off.

[Kimera757]

[quote name='Lord Varys' post='1609121' date='Dec 4 2008, 13.14']The only known Targaryen alive is Daenerys Targaryen. And she is believed to be barren. So if Daenerys succeeds in claiming her father's Throne, the Targaryen dynasty still is doomed. Dany will have no children of her own. So no one needs to be afraid of mad Targaryens anymore.[/quote]

However, they need fear the deluge of not having a next king.

Assuming she's barren, of course.

[quote name='Grumpygoat' post='1609507' date='Dec 4 2008, 17.35']A Targaryen sitting the throne, though? No, I'd have no problem with that whatsoever. First off, the whole wails of madness thing? Oh, come off it. Yes, there were a few nutters, like Aerys, but it didn't seem to afflict them to a man. More to the point, Dany is highly unlikely to take another Targaryen as husband - so some of the troubles of inbreeding will go away.[/quote]

If she has any kids (assuming she's not barren), she might make them breed with each other, continuing the tradition and creating the problem all over again. (Cleopatra, the famous one, had those plans, which was why Caesar made sure she only had one kid with him. However, she had two kids with Mark Antony, but died before any of her plans could come to fruition.)

She might also marry Jon, who (if the rumors are true) is a pretty close relative (technically her nephew).

[quote]Thus far? She's proved herself an apt ruler, one who actually cares for the needs of the smallfolk without being so blind to politics that it becomes her undoing.[/quote]

And she can continue to do so ... across the sea from Westeros, a land she now knows something about ruling.

From my PoV, obviously not all Targaryens will be insane (whether through taint, inbreeding or curse), and obviously not all genetically normal people will be sane, but the risks of getting a nutty Targaryen are higher than the risks of getting a nutty ... anyone else, pretty much.

[Fireball07]

Is there any chance that the Iron Throne will be destroyed and there'll be a Republic? Or something?

I don't want a Targ on the throne. I don't hate Dany, and might support her if Tyrion joins her but we all know the king will be either Edric Storm or Gendry.

Arya as queen.


It's going to happen whether I like it or not.

[DomDayne]

[quote name='Kimera757' post='1609616' date='Dec 4 2008, 23.27']If she has any kids (assuming she's not barren), she might make them breed with each other, continuing the tradition and creating the problem all over again.[/quote]

I don't think she would do that. It was Viserys who told her about that tradition, and he was never really nice to her imo. Also she didn't seem to care much when Drogo killed him. To me Viserys always saw Dnay as his property, even after her marriage to Drogo, and i think that she knew that he would want to follow the Targ tradition, but with all the abuse he gave he, physical and mental, i can't see her going for it.

[Winter Crow]

It is? I had suspected Gendry, but Edric? Well, I guess it's s qualified guess, seing that he's Roberts son and all.

A Republic in Westeros would be cool, although with LF skulking around it would end in political havoc.

The thing that I'd actually want to happen most is that Westeros splits up again into 7 Kingdoms. I know, it's a VERY unstable and VERY warlike "solution", but it would still be cool.
The second greatest thing that could hapen would be a Baratheon on the throne, although Gendry and Edric weren't my imediate candidates (I was thinking more like Stannis, but with his Rhlloor and all it would end in a bloodbath).

But you make a fine point Grumpygoat. Dany would be a very fine regent, but I just see to many problems down that lane.

[The Anti-Targ]

The title says it all.

My name says it all.

No way, no how, no thankyou maam.

There are really 2 "happy" endings (i.e. endings where Westeros does not suffer a doom of Valyria type appocalypse, or becomes the kingdom of the Others):

- One King/Queen to rule them all
- Westeros returns to being 7 kindgoms in truth not just in name.

If Dany does gain the throne, and if she becomes fertile then unless she marries Jon (and if Jon is Rhaegar's kid) there will be no incestuous beginning to the Targaryen II Dynasty. Unless that is Rhaegar's kids were spirited away and survived the sack of KL and return to rule Westeros with Dany. How poignant the second dynasty starts as the first one did, one dude with two wives (though this time a cousin and a sister). No thanks.

My hope is after the unifying experience of having to defeat the menace of the Others (and who knows what else). The Great Houses of Westeros will decide that having a single family ruling over all of Westeros is a bad idea and they become a confederation of kindgoms with a grand council which elects a high king for life from any of the major houses, and no kingdom can occupy the Iron throne twice in succession. Kinda like how Venice ran itself successfully for about 1000 years.

[TheyAllDie]

[quote name='Winter Crow' post='1608739' date='Dec 4 2008, 08.14']I fully agree with you guys. I've always seen all Dany's "Usurper" talk as freaking annoying. I mean, that was how the Targ's got the power in the first place with their Dragons and all. Some years whent by, the Dragons died and someone else got stronger than them and took the Throne. Just the way things work.
And I can't stand that she keeps calling Ned for a "dog"- What would she do in his place maybe? After having both your father and brother [b]burned alive[/b], wouldn't you go to war?

But I guess the entire insanity thing, plus the fact that Dany is infertile, is the main reason to why a Targ should never sit on the Throne again. Ever.[/quote]

She will not be infertile when the sun rises in the West, which is probably representative of her eventually arriving in Westros via the Sunset Sea w/Victarion & the Iron Fleet. I do, hovever agree with the contention that the Targs are not really any better than anyone else in Westros. The only evidence of this is that GRRM has some characters say so. Even the actions of Dany, although better than some of her ancestors, is not doing a particularly good job of ruling from what we have seen in AFFC.

[nya across the narrow sea]

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1609685' date='Dec 4 2008, 16.33']My hope is after the unifying experience of having to defeat the menace of the Others (and who knows what else). The Great Houses of Westeros will decide that having a single family ruling over all of Westeros is a bad idea and they become a confederation of kindgoms with a grand council which elects a high king for life from any of the major houses, and no kingdom can occupy the Iron throne twice in succession. Kinda like how Venice ran itself successfully for about 1000 years.[/quote]

Whoo! The United States of Westeros. I like it :)

[Kimera757]

[quote name='DomDayne' post='1609639' date='Dec 4 2008, 19.43']I don't think she would do that. It was Viserys who told her about that tradition, and he was never really nice to her imo. Also she didn't seem to care much when Drogo killed him. To me Viserys always saw Dnay as his property, even after her marriage to Drogo, and i think that she knew that he would want to follow the Targ tradition, but with all the abuse he gave he, physical and mental, i can't see her going for it.[/quote]
I dunno. She seemed to believe the "mother of dragons" thing really strongly, along with other aspects of her Targaryen dynasty.

I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't feel this was a taboo, even if she didn't want to sleep with Viserys.

[Ghost's claw]

Yes i would like to see that by the end..but their internal breeding has to stop(which i think shall happen as Dany is barren..last targ female etc etc..)

[Arakano]

[quote name='Grumpygoat' post='1609570' date='Dec 5 2008, 00.30']Edmure doesn't listen to sound advice. Edmure's a bit of a twit.[/quote]

Care to validate this statement in any way?

A republic in Westeros is very unlikely - there is no precedent for it, no one did even PROPOSE it yet, there are no means to make it work, and all the established powers would oppose it.

A coalition of kingdoms with an elected High-King as Anti-Targ proposes might be possible, and might indeed have been the way of natural development if Rhaegar had won at the Trident and then deposed his father via a Grand Council (you know, as Louis XVI. of France and Charles I. of England were to find out, assembling a Grand Council/Parliament is all nice and fine, but getting them to DISPERSE again can be a real bitch... ;) ).
Still, I see not how this turns the Seven Kingdoms into "The United States of Westeros". More like the "Holy Westeros Empire of Andal Nation", if you get what I mean... ;)

[DomDayne]

I personnaly feel that a coalition of the various kingdoms is kind of a cop out. I don't want to be taken all the through the War of the Five Kings, if in the end they say "You know what, i'm getting tired. You wanna come have a pizza and a piss-up to talk about peace. Maybe we could get all of our sworn eemies together and put them all in the same room, that might fix Westeros." And to be homnest i can't see any of the people currently in power, going for somthing like this.

[Demonic Weasel]

I would strongly object to a Targaryen myself, although it has nothing to do with the merits of the individuals or the family either way. Simply put, horrible as Robert and Joff have been for Westeros, it's still a healthy thing for sweeping dynastic changes to occur from time to time. A Targaryen reclaiming the throne would crush all that progress.

[Northwest]

7 Kingdoms. Others destroyed. Dragons dead. Dany dead. Cersei dead. Jaime in Casterly Rock. Harry the Heir in the Vale. Arianne in Dorne. Willas in the Reach. Asha on the islands. Edric Storm in the stormlands. Gendry in Harrenhall. Rickon Stark King in the North. Kings Landing destoyed.

It is known.

[Shewoman]

I wouldn't be too quick to say that Dany is infertile. Maegi Maz Duur told her so, but Maegi was obviously no friend to Dany. Maegi Maz named a number of unlikely events that would have to occur before Drogo will be as he was, and one of those events was Dany bearing a living child. But the focus in this passage is on Drogo's death and the unlikeliness of his return, not on Dany's fertility.

Dany is called "Mother of dragons," which might fulfill the prophecy. If that's not true, we can always look at the prophecy Macbeth received, the one that convinced him that he was well nigh invulnerable . . . but he wasn't. Tricksy things, prophecies.

[DomDayne]

Pretty outrageous, but any chance the Dragons will take the throne........ if they truly are the children of Dany, they would continue the Targ line. Wouldn't they? At least they wouldn't have any problems with the inbreeding side of things :)

[Rinso]

Nah, it would look too comical, laughable even.
I mean, think about it, that's one of the most cruel and hardest blows that Dany ever recieved; it produces a nice tragical factor in her character - not only that she never will know the joy of having a child, but no matter what, her House dies with her. A wonderful sense of doom. And then what happens - she gets preggers after some provoked by boredom sex with Daario or someone like him.
The point of Mirri Maz Duur wasn't to make a prophecy. It was to illustrate how impossible is to get Drogo's mind back, despite that his body lived. There is nothing to fulfill or unfulfill here.

[Arakano]

[quote name='DomDayne' post='1611407' date='Dec 7 2008, 02.37']Pretty outrageous, but any chance the Dragons will take the throne........ if they truly are the children of Dany, they would continue the Targ line. Wouldn't they? At least they wouldn't have any problems with the inbreeding side of things :)[/quote]

Ehm... YEESS... let's crown an ANIMAL... great move... :rolleyes: Sorry, but SERIOUSLY!

[DomDayne]

I did say it was pretty outrageous...

[Kimera757]

[quote name='DomDayne' post='1611764' date='Dec 7 2008, 14.30']I did say it was pretty outrageous...[/quote]
The inbreeding problem would continue (assuming there's at least one female in the group), it would just take an extra generation or two.

I wonder if that's what caused the dragon weakness, actually, rather than anything the maesters may have done.

I don't recall how many dragons the Targaryens brought over to Westeros, but it couldn't have been that many.

On another note, other than the three conquerors, does anyone know how many Valyrians came to Westeros?