World of Warcraft

[GoN]

Same for AD EU, a launch server, and an RP one to boot. Its a fairly mature population.

[PhelanArcetus]

Outside of trade channel, AD US is mature, generally. There's far too much "lol" appearing in chat for no reason. Apparently "lol" doesn't just mean "laugh out loud", it also means "my mistake", "you're an idiot", "I'm an idiot", "fire is pretty", and about anything else in the world.

Generally what I find is that pugs are ok. They're basically competent, but generally lack knowledge of the deeper aspects of the class; a ret paladin may do good damage, and do his blessings, but don't expect any cleanses, spot heals, hand spells, or emergency "oh god the healer died let me take over and try to prevent a wipe" either.

The two worst categories are the utterly inept people, often either without a guild or with a guild whose name is clearly a joke, and the people from the server-leading guilds. These are sometimes on their character who outgears the rest of the party, and sometimes their alt, geared anywhere from greens to entry-level raiding, and these are normally clearly competent, but unwilling to adapt to how any other group operates, and are often arrogant and rude to the rest of the party since we clearly don't raid at the highest tier on the server, we must be morons.

[Shryke]

New Mage, Hunter and DK changes over at MMO-Champion.

Very cool changes for the DK, although I will now have to reitemize my tank gear for more Stam.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Barring the most absolutely god-awful DPS players, I think that PUGs are generally as good as the combination of the tank and healer. Needless to say, when you are filling one of those roles, things go a lot better.

Logged on my prot warrior this afternoon because he'd been sitting in the Valiance Keep inn waiting to be used for the past 3 weeks. I figured, since I know I won't have to search for a tank I'll try to find an instance group for the Nexus to see if I can shake the rust off a bit. Being level 70 but with 17.2k unbuffed health I figured I'd be more than enough to handle the place.

The five man group was me, a fury warrior, a DK, a feral druid and a resto druid. About the 3rd pull, the feral druid announces, "I do more damage in bear. Cat sucks bum," and proceeds to go bear for the rest of the instance. In spite of my marking a skull target for every group, neither the other warrior nor the DK ever looked at it and just proceeded to blast full power at whatever single target they pleased. Meanwhile, you had the feral druid (level 75 but [i]still with less unbuffed health than me[/i]) trying to tank every pull. When he got crunched by the big earth guy, he conceded that I should tank bosses and at least he didn't try to pull threat off me for them.

All in all, it was a good experience, considering I was trying to remind myself how to tank and every pull I had to pull mobs off two guys. I never went below 50% health in the whole instance until Keristraza enraged. Awesome.

Let's contrast this experience with last night's heroic PUG on my mage. The daily was Gundrak. We roll up with some paladin tank who has 19k unbuffed at level 80. We're doing the poison guy and he drops to poison nova every time. So he's like, "Let's go do the mammoth guy," which we did, and when we kill Moorabi, the tank gets the achievement for "Loot an Emblem of Heroism." Well, I thought, that explains a lot.

[TerraPrime]

Well, I don't fault people for sub-par gears. Mostly because I am one of them. :P

That's different from using wrong gears, e.g. a hunter wearing mail pieces meant for elemental shamans, or something, which can be a sign that the person just doesn't know the class. It's also different from just plain bad play style. If a hunter doesn't know how to trap, or a resto druid is not putting out HoTs, etc., those you can teach, provided they will listen. The real bad ones are those that just don't get the concept of a dungeon, like those two DPS guys that DPS out of order, etc. Those people annoy me.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

Due to my buggy laptop computer, that is now in the shop, I have not been able to play WoW for about three weeks. Ugh.

[Lyanna Stark]

Mandy, dungeon etiquette is normally:

a) the tank marks the targets, normally a skull for first kill, a cross for second and maybe the box or something for third. Standard is that caster mobs die first as they tend to do a lot of damage and can cause havoc to the party. To DPS the wrong target or to start with Area of Effect spells are often considered bad, stupid or both. If you have a guild tank (*cough* Stegho *cough* :P ) then you can be bolder with your AoE. After all, you know he is good; let him get a challenge every now and then :D

b) Sometimes the tank will mark something for Crowd control, or CC. It can be a sheep target, a trap target, a seduce target or a banish target. If the mob is going to get banished/seduces, be sure to know which sign is "yours" and make sure you are ready and in a good location to cast your CC spell when the tank pulls. Contrary to mages' sheep, locks can banish in the middle of AoE, but it can be perilous to wait too long, as the tank often ignores the CCed mob and if the CC isn't applied in time, the mob normally makes a bee-line for the healer, who then turns into mob breakfast. (Or in my case: I'll run over to you and hit my fade key, which means *you* will be mob breakfast first :P )

c) DPS rotations. Know which spell to cast in what order, what dots to keep on the mobs etc. to maximise your damage output. Elitists Jerks forums are normally the place to read up a bit if you are really into theorycrafting; if not, ask an experienced member of your class who played warlock for a while. Check what spec/rotations he/she runs with, and basically copycat it. Sometimes it is down to your own judgement tho, like when to switch to AoE from single target DPS.

d) Don't roll on gear that is "stupid" for you, i.e. the wrong stats, or armour/weapons you can't use. If you want to check what drops in a dungeon before you go in there, go to wowhead or thottbot, search on the dungeon name and it will tell you what stuff you are likely to see. Kaliban's loot list is a good "gearing while levelling" tool which recommends nice quest rewards etc. based on your class.

e) Especially for warlocks, don't life tap down to 10% HP when your healer is drinking :P water is extremely expensive in WotlK (like over 1G for 5) and it takes two water to get my mana pool back to full. Lifetap at a good time or bring your own water. :P I am nagging Joskii to lifetap when I have a Surge of Light proc, which means I get an instant flash heal. I'll go like "5 sec go go go Lifetap!!" :P

f) Sign of a good warlock is flexibility. The party needs more stamina? Take out the imp for bloodpact. Offer healthstones to the party at the beginning of the run. Soulstone the healer for those times when shit hits the fan. Stay awake and watch over the healer. As you are a ranged DPS class, you will be able to spot earlier if a mob is getting lose and running for the healer. Use the tools you have to keep it off the healer until the tank can pick it up. Deathcoil is great for this. You can also use a Felguard for intercept stun, or even fear, if you have the space for it. Curse of Exhaustion in the Affl tree can work wonders here. Fear + CoEx + DotS plus drain life means warlocks can kite mobs almost indefinitely. I love grouping with good warlocks. They can help save the group in a multitude of situations. :)

[Arataniello]

[quote name='Lyanna Stark' post='1615835' date='Dec 11 2008, 05.20']Mandy, dungeon etiquette is normally:

b) Sometimes the tank will mark something for Crowd control, or CC. It can be a sheep target, a trap target, a seduce target or a banish target.[/quote]

Also, roots and hibernate from druids. These are also useful, but can be limited in application - hibernate only works on beasts and dragonkin, and rooting caster/ranged types doesn't prevent them from doing their thing.

[RaceBannon42]

What, No love for Hex? :P


My computer is driving me nuts. It just freezes up at times. Usually during a very graphics intensive fight, but last night it did it while I was moving from one Hodor daily to another. It requires a full reboot to get going again. I'm looking forward to being done with my Hodor's, They are becoming a bit tedious, especially when I need to stay up and do them after raids.

Got a new belt last night. Holy crap they are jamming the hit onto Naxx gear. I was wondering how I'd ever get enough to spell cap at 368 a couple weeks ago, now I can't shed it. I was at 450 before reenchanting my gloves with expertise.

[Lyanna Stark]

Well, there is always hex, hibernate, MC, sap, repentance, shackle undead, turn evil as well, plus I probably missed something. :P

EDIT: forgot roots, and that's prolly not the only one.

Race, that sounds awful! I am so dreading having to start on the stupid Hodir quests. Bleah.

[PhelanArcetus]

Well I failed at sticking to my guns and working the paladin. Something about signing on and immediately getting a tell that 4 people are waiting for me, explicitly and specifically, to run heroics. So we hit Azjol-Nerub, Drak'tharon, and Nexus. Picked up the Essence of Gossamer, the Keystone Great-Ring, Terrace Defense Boots, and a dps belt, as well as two jewelcrafting patterns. Still need from Halls of Stone, Utgarde Keep, and normal Oculus to round out the instance pattern drops... and one more Storm Peaks drop.

Large part of the reason is that our second healer (guildmaster) was online, which means pretty much the only time the other guy can play his warrior, so that's most of why I ran the heroics with them.

Tonight the GM won't be on so I should be able to just do my JC daily, a little Sons of Hodir, and mining before I hit up the paladin.

The tank and healer are 99% of the time, the make or break in a pug group. I'm never really worried about pugging dps, but a tank or a healer, I worry. If the dps are bad, chances are it'll just slow the run down, unless there's a dps race encounter, in which case it could be a make or break situation. If the tank or healer is bad, it's going to be very very painful.

I don't generally fault people for having low level gear... unless they're doing something that they should be aware they're not geared for. All leveling greens and you want to go to a raid? No, sorry, you should know better (even if Naxx is really easy). Geared wrong, or with a crazy stupid talent spec, I fault them for. Otherwise it's behavior and performance. If you're way behind the tank in damage and you're not healing (or dating someone who is good, etc), I'm going to get rid of you. If you're consistently ignoring target markings (not that I bother in guild runs generally, both because most people know what to kill first and because some people ignore them in favor of their preference for what to kill first), I'm going to get rid of you. If you're pulling for me, same, but with me also walking to your home and injuring you. If you don't cast your buffs, fail to refresh them, and so on, get out. Same for people who roll on items they can't even use, or suddenly reveal that they're building a tank set and roll against the tank there, without having given any warning.

People probably don't even know much about Hex, it being fairly new.

Race, a couple of things to suggest, as similar things have happened to me in the past, are to clean out dust from around the graphics card especially, and check for corrupted drivers as well. Back in the BC days I was hard-crashing regularly, and eventually found that it was software; a video driver was messed up. More recently I've had where the video locks up, but everything else continues to function, and that seems to be from overheating. I've also found that such crashes can often occur on the login screen.

[Stego]

I fault people for being undergeared if the upgrades are BoE craftable.

Grats on the mad loots, Phelan. That trinket and ring are both wonderful pieces.

[RaceBannon42]

[quote name='PhelanArcetus' post='1616024' date='Dec 11 2008, 08.30']People probably don't even know much about Hex, it being fairly new.

Race, a couple of things to suggest, as similar things have happened to me in the past, are to clean out dust from around the graphics card especially, and check for corrupted drivers as well. Back in the BC days I was hard-crashing regularly, and eventually found that it was software; a video driver was messed up. More recently I've had where the video locks up, but everything else continues to function, and that seems to be from overheating. I've also found that such crashes can often occur on the login screen.[/quote]


I thought it might be the graphics card , but I replaced mine last week, so its not that. I also just upgraded the video drivers, so I don't see how it could be that either. I've got like 6 damn fans in the box and the temp gauge always show low, so I dont think I'm overheating. I suspect its likely hardware, but maybe its software. I do regualr scans for malware etc, but maybe I should just reinstall windows at some point.

[Greywolf2375]

[quote name='Stego' post='1616064' date='Dec 11 2008, 10.13']I fault people for being undergeared if the upgrades are BoE craftable.

Grats on the mad loots, Phelan. That trinket and ring are both wonderful pieces.[/quote]
But but it's so HARD to get Saronite...I mean, I gotta take time off my 4th alt of the day to go MINE...why can't you just give it to me?? pretty close except for the mostly correct grammar I used in a discussion with a guildie last night

ya can't turn around and not trip over a node or a (if eng) cloud to get mats; no reason a tank with no luck in getting drops isn't in tempered or daunting something except for laziness...

[PhelanArcetus]

Thanks. The ring's in use already (replaced my crafted ring), but the trinket not yet. I can't sac the defense from my Seal of the Pantheon yet, and I'm sticking to my Monarch Crab for a bit, with 113 Stam, 27 Defense rating, and a use for 7.6% dodge (10s/60s cooldown) it's pretty damn handy.

I don't fault people for being undergeared... if it seems like that's because they just hit 80. If it seems like they've been 80 for three weeks and still have lousy gear, including stuff easily replaced off the AH, they're being bad. But I certainly don't expect every player to be able to afford the AHable gear upgrades as they level... not that I've been watching the AH prices on AD much recently. Quests are a lot of money, but if you're buying up materials for your own tradeskills, say, you may not have the funds. Or maybe you will; I haven't approached cash troubles in game since way back when I started farming runecloth for Ironforge rep at 60. I could easily afford to buy up the titanium needed for 11 more skillups and a gun (32 bars) if I wanted to, but I'd rather mine as much of it as I can. And I know people who are perpetually strapped for cash despite more time to play than me.

Most of the time there's two reasons I see people with low level gear they could easily upgrade. One is that they're too dumb to know what's available, and the other is that they're too fixated on particular upgrades to look at intermediate ones. Our Arms warrior was almost annoyed by getting new boots last night, mostly because he knows that in a week at most he'll have much better boots, and so he has the hassle of enchanting these new boots, only to vendor them soon. In his case I can accept it; he's not hunting for a drop, just waiting on some more rep

Here's what I do know for AH prices: Frostweave is stupidly expensive. Thank you for the free money, server. Seriously, 25-30 gold per stack of cloth. Netherweave was never past around 8. Ore doesn't sell too well anymore, except for Titanium (prospecting's chance of a rare gem seems pretty poor so far; one per 2 stacks at best that I've tried on saronite). Crafted blue tank gear, Tempered Saronite and Daunting, is so cheap as to be laughable. I haven't really looked at the rest though.

[Lyanna Stark]

[quote]ya can't turn around and not trip over a node or a (if eng) cloud to get mats; no reason a tank with no luck in getting drops isn't in tempered or daunting something except for laziness...[/quote]

You guys on low pop servers or something? :P

Our server is farmed to buggery. If I want to mine or herb I get up at 7 am on Saturdays. Or try it late it night. Any other time you try to do it (while not having time off work) is pointless on AD EU.

[PhelanArcetus]

AD US seems pretty unfarmed, at least Icecrown around 7pm. I'm hoping it stays that way. My intention is really just to hit up at [i]most[/i] an hour on my warrior before I go run off to paladin my way through Borean Tundra some more.

That hour needs to encompass the Jewelcrafting daily and ideally some titanium acquisition.

[Greywolf2375]

[quote name='Lyanna Stark' post='1616159' date='Dec 11 2008, 11.47']You guys on low pop servers or something? :P

Our server is farmed to buggery. If I want to mine or herb I get up at 7 am on Saturdays. Or try it late it night. Any other time you try to do it (while not having time off work) is pointless on AD EU.[/quote]
I wish, no - Baelgun is full; just from flying from place to place I pick up 3-4 stacks of cobalt & saronite and 10-15 Titanium ore while doing dailies...might be that peeps are still trying to race from spot to spot to farm the quests instead of the mats..my wife and i have spent hours in Wintergrasp without seeing a soul

[Stego]

AD EU has the lowest population I've ever seen, tbh. You just have lunatics like Ehgar on there.

[Mack Kilimaro]

[quote name='Lyanna Stark' post='1616159' date='Dec 11 2008, 11.47']Our server is farmed to buggery.[/quote]

This is a phrase I feel like I need to use more in my every day life.

I don't know what people are doing that you can actually find titanium. I have never found a single spawn of it in Icecrown and I most often see it in Sholazar Basin, which is like ore node heaven for me. Since titanium is hard to come by, leveling JC is kind of a pain in the ass. I'm at 425 and the cheapest mats pattern to skill up on is Dream Signet - one titanium bar, one forest emerald, one dream shard. I have no idea what it's going to be once the Dream Signet goes yellow.