GoN Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote]Because honestly, I lost my virginity to a guy who doesn't mean anything to me now. He's not part of my life any more in any way and I don't feel any emotional attachment when I think back on him. There wasn't anything wrong with him, it was a good experience, and I don't have regrets. But if you're going to lose your virginity to a guy who isn't going to mean anything to you, why not get a million dollars for it too?[/quote] This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashiara Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='Eponine' post='1665520' date='Jan 28 2009, 18.25']But if you're going to lose your virginity to a guy who isn't going to mean anything to you, why not get a million dollars for it too?[/quote] I lost my virginity to a guy I wasn't in love with and I didn't care much for, just because I thought it was time I did it. A guy I ended up hating and fearing and having to involve the police in order to get rid of him for good. I have regrets about it but you can't change some things. I might as well have asked for money for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergioCQH Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1665480' date='Jan 28 2009, 11.04']I read her [url="http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-01-23/why-im-selling-my-virginity/"]essay about this[/url] on the Daily Beast and I have to say, while I wouldn't personally bid even if I had the means, more power to her if she can swing it. She's found a way to use the ancient tradition of commodification of virginity for her own advantage.[/quote] Ok, here are some quotes from her essay: "Deflowering is historically oppressive—early European marriages began with a dowry, in which a father would sell his virginal daughter to the man whose family could offer the most agricultural wealth. Dads were basically their daughters’ pimps." Apparently, she doesn't have a clue what a dowry is. It's what the father of the bride gives to the groom, not the other way around. So apparently her Women's Studies curriculum didn't include any history. This is starting to look like a bad, last-minute college essay. "And the value of my chastity is one level on which men cannot compete with me." The value of her chastity to her is zero. If she maintains her chastity, she has zero dollars. It is the desecration of her chastity that she believes is worth millions of dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potsherds Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I think she's rather clever to take a silly cultural fixation on virginity and make money out of it. Good for her. I kinda think she ought to donate a portion of the money to some sort of support groups for women in abusive relationships or something like that, though. But that's just what I'd do if I suddenly had so much money. No way I'd feel ok spending it all on myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='SergioCQH' post='1665551' date='Jan 28 2009, 11.42']Ok, here are some quotes from her essay: "Deflowering is historically oppressive—early European marriages began with a dowry, in which a father would sell his virginal daughter to the man whose family could offer the most agricultural wealth. Dads were basically their daughters’ pimps." Apparently, she doesn't have a clue what a dowry is. It's what the father of the bride gives to the groom, not the other way around. So apparently her Women's Studies curriculum didn't include any history. This is starting to look like a bad, last-minute college essay.[/quote] I guess she meant "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price"]bride price[/url]" then, which is a fulsome and ancient tradition as well. In fact, from Exodus: [quote name='Exodus 22:16-17']16 "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. 17 If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.[/quote] So aside from the fact that you're not actually as knowledgeable about virginity commerce as you thought, do you believe her argument is invalid because she used "dowry" instead of "bride price"? [quote name='SergioCQH' post='1665551' date='Jan 28 2009, 11.42']"And the value of my chastity is one level on which men cannot compete with me." The value of her chastity to her is zero. If she maintains her chastity, she has zero dollars. It is the desecration of her chastity that she believes is worth millions of dollars.[/quote] Obviously someone else out there believes her chastity is worth millions of dollars, so it's not just her belief. She seems to believe her virginity is valueless to her, in and of itself, but it can fetch a nice price. So she's selling something she finds to be useless to her, to someone willing to pay a vast price for it. Your use of "desecration of her chastity" betrays an outmoded and patriarchal understanding, which I could have guessed from your snicker about "women's studies". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergioCQH Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1665564' date='Jan 28 2009, 11.51']I guess she meant "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price"]bride price[/url]" then, which is a fulsome and ancient tradition as well. So you believe her argument is invalid because she used "dowry" instead of "bride price"? Obviously someone else out there believes her chastity is worth millions of dollars, so it's not just her belief. She seems to believe her virginity is valueless to her, in and of itself, but it can fetch a nice price. So she's selling something she finds to be useless to her, to someone willing to pay a vast price for it. Your use of "desecration of her chastity" betrays an outmoded and patriarchal understanding, which I could have guessed from your snicker about "women's studies".[/quote] Too bad for her the "bride price" was never practiced in European traditions. You assume from my correction of her misuse of dowry that I don't know what a bride price is. How astute! That's some superior reading between the lines right there, my learned friend. You must have learned how to do that from a Wikipedia article too. Again, nobody values her chastity. Nobody is paying her to remain chaste. What people are paying her for is to get rid of her chastity to them. What's so hard to understand about that? My use of "desecration" betrays my love of purple language and nothing more. Indeed, I am all for women losing their virginity as soon as ethically possible, preferably for free. Why are you taking my criticism of her personally? Is it because my criticism of her justifications is somehow an attack on your support for her justifications? You seem to have developed some sort of anger towards me. I am not sure why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='potsherds' post='1665561' date='Jan 28 2009, 11.48']I think she's rather clever to take a silly cultural fixation on virginity and make money out of it. Good for her. I kinda think she ought to donate a portion of the money to some sort of support groups for women in abusive relationships or something like that, though. But that's just what I'd do if I suddenly had so much money. No way I'd feel ok spending it all on myself.[/quote] Not me man, I'd take that money to Vegas and sell the rest of my soul. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='SergioCQH' post='1665569' date='Jan 28 2009, 11.54']Too bad for her the "bride price" was never practiced in European traditions.[/quote] Why does it have to be practiced in European tradition to be a valid citation? It would be a shitty women's studies program if it only focused on European values. And, look, that Exodus citation about the bride price... is from one of the foundational texts of European morality. [quote name='SergioCQH' post='1665569' date='Jan 28 2009, 11.54']You assume from my correction of her misuse of dowry that I don't know what a bride price is. How astute! That's some superior reading between the lines right there, my learned friend.[/quote] I guess I would have assumed that if you actually knew what a bride price was you would have said, "She was talking about bride price instead." [quote name='SergioCQH' post='1665569' date='Jan 28 2009, 11.54']Again, nobody values her chastity. Nobody is paying her to remain chaste. What people are paying her for is to get rid of her chastity to them. What's so hard to understand about that? My use of "desecration" betrays my love of purple language and nothing more.[/quote] In general, society values chastity. For thousands of years, across many many cultures, the loss of virginity was accompanied by a loss in the desirability/bride price/etc of a woman. The fact that you can baldly claim that nobody values her chastity while ignoring the thousands of years of a high valuation for virginity broadly present in clutures throughout the world is, frankly, mind-boggling. ETA: I'm not taking it personally, I just thought your snide attitude about "women's studies" and the lame lesbian joke deserved a little correction... especially since you don't seem to be that clued in to the issues that this woman is writing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='SergioCQH' post='1665569' date='Jan 28 2009, 10.54']Again, nobody values her chastity. Nobody is paying her to remain chaste. What people are paying her for is to get rid of her chastity to them. What's so hard to understand about that? My use of "desecration" betrays my love of purple language and nothing more.[/quote] It is just as valid to say that the price is indeed for her chastity, that it is intended to reward her for keeping it all these years instead of destroying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Money would have been one of the [i]better [/i]reasons for which I had sex, at least when I was single. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergioCQH Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1665583' date='Jan 28 2009, 12.03']Why does it have to be practiced in European tradition to be a valid citation? It would be a shitty women's studies program if it only focused on European values. And, look, that Exodus citation about the bride price... is from one of the foundational texts of European morality. I guess I would have assumed that if you actually knew what a bride price was you would have said, "She was talking about bride price instead." In general, society values chastity. For thousands of years, across many many cultures, the loss of virginity was accompanied by a loss in the desirability/bride price/etc of a woman. The fact that you can baldly claim that nobody values her chastity while ignoring the thousands of years of a high valuation for virginity broadly present in clutures throughout the world is, frankly, mind-boggling.[/quote] You're just being willfully ignorant now. She said, "Deflowering is historically oppressive—early European marriages began with a dowry, in which a father would sell his virginal daughter to the man whose family could offer the most agricultural wealth. Dads were basically their daughters’ pimps." She was referring specifically to European traditions. I doubt she can even find India on a map. As for the chastity thing, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Paying money to deflower someone is not valuing their chastity to me. That's absurd to me. [quote]It is just as valid to say that the price is indeed for her chastity, that it is intended to reward her for keeping it all these years instead of destroying it.[/quote] Do you really believe that's "just as valid." I think you're just playing devil's advocate there. These guys, if they're real, aren't paying millions of dollars to reward her for her chastity. They're buying themselves an opportunity to deflower a virgin. [quote]ETA: I'm not taking it personally, I just thought your snide attitude about "women's studies" and the lame lesbian joke deserved a little correction... especially since you don't seem to be that clued in to the issues that this woman is writing about.[/quote] You mean because I didn't swallow her bullshit hook, line, and sinker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Sergio: you're either overthinking this or being a little willfully ignorant yourself. For thousands of years, a woman's virginity was a commodity. It still is, all over the world. Excepting cases like bed slaves, men's virginity has not been a commodity. Typically the transaction for a woman's virginity took place between her family and the groom's family, and she saw little benefit of the arrangement. This woman is using the traditional premium placed on virginity to benefit herself. You can dicker all you want about whether or not Europeans paid bride prices or where the specific valuation of chastity occurs, but I do think her essay is smarter than you're giving her credit for, and I think you would benefit from an Intro to Gender Studies course or something similar, if you could get over the puerile snickering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiko Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I would pay a Gold Dragon. Come on guys. Don't you read anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mord Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Edit: Never mind. Too little sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergioCQH Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Of course I know a woman's virginity has been a commodity for ages. Duh. Where did I say it wasn't? For her to use this as a justification for her to sell her virginity is self-interested and intellectually lazy at best, and self-defeating at worst. Do you actually believe that simply saying that a woman's virginity has been a commodity for ages is somehow indicative of good argumentation? Any idiot can spout a factoid like. She provides no actual analysis of why the fact that the social patriarchy has treated a woman's virginity as a commodity gives her justification to do likewise. Her argument is like this: 1.) Virginity has been treated as a commodity by patriarchy and as a tool to keep women in their place (almost her exact words). 2.) ???? 3.) Therefore, I can treat my own virginity as a commodity if I want. Color me unimpressed by the historical factoid (which she mangled) followed by a conclusion. That doesn't pass muster in Philosophy 101. That's why I say her argument is BS. It doesn't provide any analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Fury Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='SergioCQH' post='1665622' date='Jan 28 2009, 11.37']Of course I know a woman's virginity has been a commodity for ages. Duh. Where did I say it wasn't? For her to use this as a justification for her to sell her virginity is self-interested and intellectually lazy at best, and self-defeating at worst. Do you actually believe that simply saying that a woman's virginity has been a commodity for ages is somehow indicative of good argumentation? Any idiot can spout a factoid like. She provides no actual analysis of why the fact that the social patriarchy has treated a woman's virginity as a commodity gives her justification to do likewise. Her argument is like this: 1.) Virginity has been treated as a commodity by patriarchy and as a tool to keep women in their place (almost her exact words). 2.) ???? 3.) Therefore, I can treat my own virginity as a commodity if I want. Color me unimpressed by the historical factoid (which she mangled) followed by a conclusion. That doesn't pass muster in Philosophy 101. That's why I say her argument is BS. It doesn't provide any analysis.[/quote] Her argument on its own may not, but as it is an argument that someone should pay her a bunch of money for her virginity- it worked. Why should it not be judged on its effectiveness at reaching her goal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='Kay Fury' post='1665629' date='Jan 28 2009, 10.43']Her argument on its own may not, but as it is an argument that someone should pay her a bunch of money for her virginity- it worked. Why should it not be judged on its effectiveness at reaching her goal?[/quote] It's her goal that will end up being the issue, no matter her justification. I mean, if she actually goes through with this, if [i]any[/i] money changes hands, would that not be prostitution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergioCQH Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='Kay Fury' post='1665629' date='Jan 28 2009, 12.43']Her argument on its own may not, but as it is an argument that someone should pay her a bunch of money for her virginity- it worked. Why should it not be judged on its effectiveness at reaching her goal?[/quote] Because it's not her article that got her the dollars. It's the hymen between her legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquireThomas Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Her "thesis" sounded like bullshit to me, too, but I've still got to give her props for being three million dollars to do pretty much nothing. I'd have sex with just about anybody for $3,000,000, and I'm pretty sure most of you would too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dornish Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 What's with the obsession with virginity anyway? Sex is not a race. Isn't obsessing over it somewhat akin to spouting "first post" at the beginning of a thread? ETA: pun not intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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