Yellow fever

[Arlingzen Bill]

[quote name='TerraPrime' post='1677169' date='Feb 6 2009, 15.57']Look.

It's not that someone likes Asian is a problem. It's not, in itself.

It's the reason behind it that can be a problem.

We all have physical types that we are attracted to. That's not the problem. Liking certain physical features, even when those features tend to happen only/predominantly in one ethnic group, is not in itself racist. It's about the attitude over all and the other things that go into it. This is not about making PC cocktail out of overblown sense of entitlement - it's about a real and documented aspect of dominant culture exoticizing a minority culture as part of the greater complex interplay between races and ethnic groups.


ETA: For Asian men, it's not the exoticizing, it's the emasculation. In gay culture, the same racial stereotypes that Asian women face in the predominant white culture of the U.S. get applied to gay Asian men.[/quote]

Terra,
Don't we need to look beyond in one sense? Yellow Fever is one aspect of a greater issue, idealization of groups. Although not illegal someone could equate these fetishists with pedophiles. To get back to the original point, in the sense of idealizing one group it is creepy.

[TerraPrime]

[quote name='Arlington Bill' post='1677183' date='Feb 6 2009, 15.03']Terra,
Don't we need to look beyond in one sense? Yellow Fever is one aspect of a greater issue, idealization of groups. Although not illegal someone could equate these fetishists with pedophiles. To get back to the original point, in the sense of idealizing one group it is creepy.[/quote]

Look beyond what? I'm a bit lost.

I'm also not clear at all what comparisons you're drawing between yellow fever and pedophilia.

[Iskaral Pust]

[quote name='Yngwiegathai' post='1677122' date='Feb 6 2009, 15.33']No man, what I said was I thought that white guys that have a thing for Asian women are creepy. I've got nothing at all against interracial relationships (obviously), so long as the relationship in question is about a person liking another person, not a person getting turned on by a racial stereotype.

And I thought that Jungle Fever went the other way around -- white folks with a black fetish. Thanks for that tidbit. I learn something every day![/quote]

But when you seek to perpetuate a negative stereotype of one particular variation of interracial relationships you are promoting racist bigotry and perhaps just projecting your own resentments onto that group. Your posts don't sound very objective or altruistic.

Is the white male with asian female phenomenon really that pronounced here? It certainly seems to get frequent mentions and jokes in pop culture but I've never seen statistics.

If it is prevalent, is it really assumed to be a cultural issue? In my experience, asian-americans are culturally very similar to all other americans and only fresh-off-the-boat immigrants (of any culture) who grew up abroad are culturally distinct from other americans, and there are far, far fewer of this latter group. For an outsider looking in (I grew up abroad), immigrants assimilate very quickly here and the first generation raised in the US are culturally closer to the US than their country of origin.

If cultural distinction is weak -- surely all these supposed anime-fetishists would eventually notice that asian-americans are nothing like anime characters and actually quite similar to non-asian-americans -- is there a better explanation for any pronounced trend of white-asian interracial relationships? I've not heard a good hypothesis. I don't think that asian women are any more attractive on average than other races, although race-driven variations in physique, coloring and phrenology are open to subjective taste.

For the record, I am Irish and my wife is Korean-American. I have never thought of myself as having yellow fever and I am offended by the stereotype. It's almost as offensive as the one about alcoholic Irishmen. I had no prior interest in or knowledge of any asian culture before meeting my wife, I've never read anime, and I had never previously dated any other asian women. And anyone who thinks asian-american women are subservient [i]really[/i] needs to meet my wife.

There you go. I rose to your troll-bait. Lots of lulz.

[Eponine]

[quote name='cyrano' post='1677178' date='Feb 6 2009, 16.00']Anyways, no one has a fetish for Indian men. It is known.[/quote]
I don't have a fetish for anyone (definitely not racially based!), but I have a crush on an Indian man. Not a serious one though, because I am relatively sure that he is married and has kids.

[SwordoftheMorning]

[quote name='TerraPrime' post='1677169' date='Feb 6 2009, 14.57']Look.

It's not that someone likes Asian is a problem. It's not, in itself.

It's the reason behind it that can be a problem.

We all have physical types that we are attracted to. That's not the problem. Liking certain physical features, even when those features tend to happen only/predominantly in one ethnic group, is not in itself racist. It's about the attitude over all and the other things that go into it. This is not about making PC cocktail out of overblown sense of entitlement - i[b]t's about a real and documented aspect of dominant culture exoticizing a minority culture as part of the greater complex interplay between races and ethnic groups.[/b]


ETA: For Asian men, it's not the exoticizing, it's the emasculation. In gay culture, the same racial stereotypes that Asian women face in the predominant white culture of the U.S. get applied to gay Asian men.[/quote]

Terra,

I'll cop to misreading Yag's initial statement. but the bolded part of what you wrote strikes me as .... wrong. And only looking at "phenomenon" from one side of the looking glass.

Since it takes two to tango, gay or straight, what about the other half of the interracial couple ? and what about the implicit racism being displayed by those who refuse to date anyone outside their culture ? Is it not racist to be Black and date ONLY Black, or White, or Asian, etc. Most people automatically say no, "It's natural". Which I find hypocritical. Its culturally PC to do say and even say so, but its still just as racist as the White guy who only dates Asian cause they are "tiny and smooth" or the Black woman that only dates White men "because they have jobs" or the ....... you get the picture.

As long as we have these cultural assumptions in regards to interracial couple, bigotry sticks its head into the conversation whenever its discussed.

[▲Jim▲]

So what if I am white, and have a thing for only white girls, does that make me creepy as well?


(and no I am not being serious, I don't care if she is Mexican, Black, Itallian, white, or anything else)

[tzanth]

[quote name='SwordoftheMorning' post='1677191' date='Feb 6 2009, 13.07']Since it takes two to tango, gay or straight, what about the other half of the interracial couple ? and what about the implicit racism being displayed by those who refuse to date anyone outside their culture ? Is it not racist to be Black and date ONLY Black, or White, or Asian, etc. Most people automatically say no, "It's natural". Which I find hypocritical. Its culturally PC to do say and even say so, but its still just as racist as the White guy who only dates Asian cause they are "tiny and smooth" or the Black woman that only dates White men "because they have jobs" or the ....... you get the picture.

As long as we have these cultural assumptions in regards to interracial couple, bigotry sticks its head into the conversation whenever its discussed.[/quote]

I fully agree. In fact, the guy with the worst case of "yellow fever" I know is Asian himself.

[Guest thebadlady]

[quote name='SwordoftheMorning' post='1677115' date='Feb 6 2009, 14.30']Its an offensive question to ask because you have automatically labled any White male with a Asian gf as having Yellow fever. You have no idea WHY those two particular people have become a couple, you are just stereotyping.... with a paternlistic putdown attitude about White men going after "your" women .

As long as I am single, I'll date who I damn well please without regards to color or ethnicity. But since I'm a Black man, anytime I have a White GF, I am accused of having "Jungle Fever". It's irksome and ugly. And maybe because I deal with it on a regular basis, I am sensitive to the bigotry even when its not aimed at me.[/quote]


I'd hit it.

[quote name='cyrano' post='1677178' date='Feb 6 2009, 15.00']You know what annoys me the most? That Asian is now shorthand for far east Asia. Its time to take back the term, dammit. I am Asian, hear me roar!

Anyways, no one has a fetish for Indian men. It is known.[/quote]

No one? ;)



Actually, I will never date a red haired man (women are AOK!! in my books), am left cold by blondes, and will never date a skinny dude (ya know the kind - the one with methbody).

My desire comes in shades of dark. :D

[Eponine]

[quote name='Iskaral Pust' post='1677188' date='Feb 6 2009, 16.06']Is the white male with asian female phenomenon really that pronounced here? It certainly seems to get frequent mentions and jokes in pop culture but I've never seen statistics.

If it is prevalent, is it really assumed to be a cultural issue? In my experience, asian-americans are culturally very similar to all other americans and only fresh-off-the-boat immigrants (of any culture) who grew up abroad are culturally distinct from other americans, and there are far, far fewer of this latter group. For an outsider looking in (I grew up abroad), immigrants assimilate very quickly here and the first generation raised in the US are culturally closer to the US than their country of origin.[/quote]

I don't know the statistics on it, but it's definitely not just a myth. :(

[SwordoftheMorning]

ETA

[quote]Iskaral Pust
Is the white male with asian female phenomenon really that pronounced here? It certainly seems to get frequent mentions and jokes in pop culture but I've never seen statistics.[/quote]

From the last thing I read, the most numerous interracial couples in the United States are White men with Asian women. I don't have time to look it up, but I believe thats right.


From Wike


Married Couples in the United States in 2006:
[15]

[code] White Wife Black Wife Asian Wife Other Wife
White Husband 50,224,000 117,000 530,000 489,000
Black Husband 286,000 3,965,000 34,000 45,000
Asian Husband 174,000 6,000 2,493,000 13,000
Other Husband 535,000 23,000 41,000 558,000[/code]


Cant get the grid to line up, but there were over a half million married White Male/Asian Wife couples in the US in 2006. by far the largest interracial number

[Arlingzen Bill]

[quote name='TerraPrime' post='1677187' date='Feb 6 2009, 16.05']Look beyond what? I'm a bit lost.

I'm also not clear at all what comparisons you're drawing between yellow fever and pedophilia.[/quote]

I was thinking beyond the limits of a narrow grouping and individual cases.

The comparison is because they are both focused on a highly specific group to the exclusion of all else.

[DanteGabriel]

[quote name='Iskaral Pust' post='1677188' date='Feb 6 2009, 16.06']Is the white male with asian female phenomenon really that pronounced here? It certainly seems to get frequent mentions and jokes in pop culture but I've never seen statistics.[/quote]
It is very prevalent depending on what kind of social groups you talk about. For example, among my own demographic cohort of 21-35 year old urban geeks, it is amazingly prevalent. I had an ex girlfriend who LARPed and I accompanied her to a couple of her LARPs (at her request to scare off the guys making passes at her) and you could practically hear the mad pings of geek lust sonar when she walked into a room full of white anime fans.

[Ashaman]

i heard about a fjord in rural norway where nearly every remaining men that inheritage the farm, have a wife from tailand. every on know that most of them have gone on a tai trip and brought home a new wife becours many of them cant find local women to marry them.

i know that the situation for the in ecense "imported" wife wont be ideal, and proberly will consist of no true love. many of then will experience a easier life in rural norway then they would do in rural tayland, and thei kids will proberly experience a bether life then what on would get in rural tailand.

[TerraPrime]

[quote name='SwordoftheMorning' post='1677191' date='Feb 6 2009, 15.07']I'll cop to misreading Yag's initial statement.[/quote]

Glad that's clarified then.



[quote]Since it takes two to tango, gay or straight, what about the other half of the interracial couple ?[/quote]

Two parts to the answer.

First, surely, we don't say that sexism against women is diminished by the fact that some women date sexist men? Some women even marry these sexist men. Some women buy into these anti-women stereotypes. Still, we recognize that the larger issue of sexism remains, regardless of the behavior of some of the affected members. So, that there are Asians of all types who are in relations with white people who fetishize Asians does not make the people who fetishize an entire ethnic group any less racist.

Second, if the Asian partner in a white-Asian relationship is culturally aware of the fetishizing by their partner on account of them being Asian, I, too, will have problems with that. Knowingly submit yourself to this sort of racial type-casting reflects poorly on the person, as far as I am concerned. Or, worse, some who would see dating whites as a sign of being better or being more powerful in the social hierarchy. Those people I can't stand, either.


[quote]and what about the implicit racism being displayed by those who refuse to date anyone outside their culture ? Is it not racist to be Black and date ONLY Black, or White, or Asian, etc. Most people automatically say no, "It's natural". Which I find hypocritical. Its culturally PC to do say and even say so, but its still just as racist as the White guy who only dates Asian cause they are "tiny and smooth" or the Black woman that only dates White men "because they have jobs" or the ....... you get the picture.[/quote]

And I have long been a critic of the insular and xenophobic tendency of some Asian cultures when it comes to dating and marriage. I do not think, for one second, that insisting on dating within your own respective ethnic group for no other reasons than perceived notions of race is admirable or desirable. That said, there are real and substantial cultural gaps to cross when it comes to inter-racial dating across different cultures. It's hard enough for one white American to date one black American when they grow up in the same town, let alone one white American dating one Asian American whose parents just immigrated to the U.S. 20 years ago. But that I think is more about cultural divide, than it is about fetishizing ethnic minorities.

[WhiteQueen]

Am I missing something? Why is it creepy or pathetic? My brother is married to an American born Filippina and my cousin is married to a Taiwanese? Why should have they stuck to their own race?

[Eponine]

I will say that as an Asian female who has dated many white guys (most of whom didn't have a fetish), I just don't know many Asian men who aren't first generation. I know many adopted Asian females, but no adopted Asian males (let's not go into why). So I wouldn't have been AGAINST dating another Americanized Asian, but there wasn't exactly a lot of opportunity.

[DanteGabriel]

[quote name='Triskele' post='1677229' date='Feb 6 2009, 16.24']LARPed?[/quote]
Live Action Role-Playing. The people who go into the woods and thump each other with swords made of foam rubber and PVC pipe. I believe there was a thread on this board about the Googlemaps street scene that showed "ninjas"? If it's the same image I've seen, those two guys are LARPers. There is a high incidence of Asian female fetishization going on in that crowd.

For what it's worth, I've never dated a sista. I just didn't know any Filipino girls in high school and not many in college. Most of my girlfriends have been white, because that's who's been in my peer group since puberty.

[Eponine]

[quote name='WhiteQueen' post='1677239' date='Feb 6 2009, 16.28']Am I missing something? Why is it creepy or pathetic? My brother is married to an American born Filippina and my cousin is married to a Taiwanese? Why should have they stuck to their own race?[/quote]

It's not the interracial aspect that's creepy.

It's that some (usually white American) guys make a fetish out of Asian women. To the point that they don't see them as another human being with her own personality and interests.

And then you find out that he didn't really care about dating YOU, he was just looking for an Asian, he's just proud to be dating an Asian, bragging about it to his friends, you were a racial accessory to highlight what a cool uh, Japan-o-phile (yeah i know that's not right) he is.

[Tears of Lys]

[quote name='Ser Reptitious' post='1677150' date='Feb 6 2009, 15.48']Just out of curiosity, how is this any different from someone 'having a thing' for blondes, for example?[/quote]

[b]Nobody's[/b] got a thing for blondes anymore :cry: Everyone's into brunettes now.


Eponine, I can see why you'd be bummed by guys not seeing the person and merely wanting the symbol. That's f***'d up.

[Deluge]

[quote name='Tears of Lys' post='1677265' date='Feb 6 2009, 16.45']Everyone's into brunettes now.[/quote]
Hell yes we are.

That's part of the reason why I don't find white men dating Asian women inherently creepy. I for one find dark haired women more attractive than blondes, and so I can understand finding certain physical features more attractive than others. The creepy part is in the fetishization of an ethnic group due to racist assumptions about what its members are like. That creeps the fuck out of me, but honestly, I've never seen it in my day to day life. One of my better female friends is Asian, and none of the guys who have dated her seemed to be into her in any sort of creepy, "yellow fever" sort of way.