NBA

[aeu]

[quote name='add-on' post='1701017' date='Feb 26 2009, 13.01']I don't know if you've heard that I would fight you for this but it is true that I will.[/quote]

I was just ignoring that, hoping you would forget. :leaving:

[quote]I guess I'm confused. I thought Vince's was 17 mil + and Raef I know was 13.8. I guess Vince's doesn't get that big til next year, this year it must be in the 16 million range.[/quote]

According to ESPN, Carter is at 14.7 and Raef is at 12.7. I thought Vince was worth more as well.

Also, according to NBA Salary Cap FAQ, it is %125 of the salary you are trading + 100,000 K. So even if the salaries were something like 13.8 & 17.3, it still works.

[Arakasi]

Oh yeah Wally was the 13.8 one. I heard so many numbers that I think I just lost track of them.

[add-on]

[url="http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/02/former-bulls-star-norm-van-lier-dead-at-67.html"]http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/02...dead-at-67.html[/url]


fuck. what the fuck.

[Commodore]

Lebron vs. Artest, round two tonight, should be an awesome matchup. Violet Palmer is reffing again, I expect her to keep Yao out of the game and fall for Varejo's flopping, just like in Cleveland.

[add-on]

Quick, somebody tell Delonte West the whole cornrow thing is over. I mean, Thabo Sefolosha's still doing it, but he's from Switzerland so he doesn't know any better.

Now that I mention it, West's cornrows may be part of a larger problem for Cleveland. Think about it. West and his cornrows. Boobie and his star. Varejao and his napfro. Does Cleveland, as a team, have the worst hair in the NBA?

I think we should all take some time with this one. It's a serious issue.

[Commodore]

first game of Lebron's career without an assist, owned by Artest, Yao, and Battier

[Sir Thursday]

Managed to catch the Rockets - Cavs game - the Rockets really did a number on Cleveland tonight. Apart from a little run at the end of the second quarter, Artest and Battier played LeBron out of the game (those early fouls really took their toll), and Yao got the better of Ilgauskas. Noone else really stepped up for Cleveland and that meant a pretty convincing win for Houston.

Tonight really illustrated to me how well Houston matchup against the Cavs. With the big centre and excellent defenders, they are ideally equiped to minimise James' impact, and on the offensive end Yao can have his way with the weak Cleveland interior defence.


Sir Thursday

[Arakasi]

[quote name='add-on' post='1701212' date='Feb 26 2009, 14.40'][url="http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/02/former-bulls-star-norm-van-lier-dead-at-67.html"]http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/02...dead-at-67.html[/url]


fuck. what the fuck.[/quote]

Seemed to be a sad day for former Bulls. Johnny "Red" Kerr died as well. [url="http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/mt-search.cgi?search=johnny+kerr&IncludeBlogs=2&limit=20"]http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/mt-sear...=2&limit=20[/url]

[ZANNI_1276]

[quote name='Sir Thursday' post='1701735' date='Feb 26 2009, 22.50']Managed to catch the Rockets - Cavs game - the Rockets really did a number on Cleveland tonight. Apart from a little run at the end of the second quarter, Artest and Battier played LeBron out of the game (those early fouls really took their toll), and Yao got the better of Ilgauskas. Noone else really stepped up for Cleveland and that meant a pretty convincing win for Houston.

Tonight really illustrated to me how well Houston matchup against the Cavs. With the big centre and excellent defenders, they are ideally equiped to minimise James' impact, and on the offensive end Yao can have his way with the weak Cleveland interior defence.


Sir Thursday[/quote]

Houston is the one team that causes huge, huge match up problems for them. Yao clogging up the lane and not falling for the step out to defend Z on the perimeter (esentially limiting the CAVS to no offense in the paint or even a presence) and the combo of Artest/Battier which have both indvidually match uped well against LBJ in the past and on the same roster, OYE, they certainly stalled him. He still scored 21 points but no penetration, too many jumpshots and he rolled his ankle in the 4th. No one was moving with out the ball - again. Mo Williams seemed to take a 30 shots to put up his points. Plus losing Ben Wallace with a broken fibula for 4-6 weeks hurts a less than imposing front line. Walalce out is going be a big loss, he is still the best post defender, despite the certain opinions held by his detractors. Not a good start to the road trip for the CAVS.
They need to add a big (and the market is pretty slim) and they need to quickly. Word on the street they are crossing thier fingers for a Joe Smith bye out, though between PHO (where he resides in the Offseason) and other teams if he does get bought out it going to be a bidding war to sign him I am not very confident. Whispers around the north coast are they trying to lure either Horry and Brown out of retirement as potential options. They have about 5 million + to throw at which ever one:
A. wants to sign with them for a possible championship run (not saying it will happen but this will be the big selling point by Ferry - he and Mike Brown have both a great personal and proffesional relationship with Big Shot Bob)
B. Actually in shape

Stay tuned, I am sure the BOS and ORL fans are ecstaic.

[add-on]

[quote name='Triskele' post='1701291' date='Feb 26 2009, 15.59']I'm not too familiar with that guy but death is always sad. And amazingly, 67 seems to young these days.[/quote]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1702139' date='Feb 27 2009, 08.27']Seemed to be a sad day for former Bulls. Johnny "Red" Kerr died as well. [url="http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/mt-search.cgi?search=johnny+kerr&IncludeBlogs=2&limit=20"]http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/mt-sear...=2&limit=20[/url][/quote]
Brutal, brutal fucking day. With Red, we at least had some clue that his time was near. There had been signs since the beginning of the season that he was losing his battle with prostate cancer. Norm Van Lier's death, on the other hand, was a complete shock.


Trisk,

I don't really feel up to the task, but I'll do my best to give everybody an idea of who these two guys were and what they meant to Chicago.




Van Lier was part of the scrappy defensive-minded Bulls backcourt of the 1970's. The other member was Jerry Sloan. For a number of years now, he's also been one of the half-time analysts for Chicago's Comcast Sports channel, and that's from where my memories of him come.

He was the old blustery guy with comically bad ties matching the equally bad handkerchiefs wrinkled into his suit's breastpocket. I'm sure every city has one, but I'm just as sure that none of them are Norm's equal. His passion for the game and for his Bulls was something tangible. After James Posey delivered a cheap shot to Kirk Hinrich in the 2006 Playoffs, Stomin' Norman challenged Posey to a fight, saying, "Posey, I'll meet you outside the locker room and kick your ass." And he would have, too.

As ready as he was to stick up for his Bulls, he was even quicker to ream their asses if he thought they had it coming. Anything less than 48 minutes of intensity from a Bulls squad and Norm was down their throats, demanding more, demanding everything. That's what he gave after all, so it's no surprise he expected as much from the players.

I'm sure that now the Bulls organization will do the right thing and retire Norm's No. 2 into the rafters. The sad thing is that it will have taken his death for them to do something they should have done long ago. He will be missed. I miss him now. RIP



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I grew up with the voice of Johnny Red Kerr. My family traveled around quite a bit while I was growing up, but because of WGN's superstation, Kerr's always humorous, occasionally insightful commentary was a constant in my childhood.

But his days as a Chicago man go much farther back. He went to high school here, and won a state championship in his senior season at Tilden high. In college, he led the Fighting Illini to a Final Four appearance. He left us for a 12-year span that was his NBA career -- a career that ended with over 12,000 points, 10,000 rebounds and an iron man streak of 844 games. He's a Hall of Fame finalist this year.

Not long after his playing career ended, he returned home to Chicago to coach the Bulls franchise in its inaugural season. He earned Coach of the Year honors for getting that expansion team to the playoffs.

But again, my memories of the man were all of his days at the broadcast table. He was a company man -- a homer to end all homers. Every call that went against the Bulls was a bad call; every opposing player was a sworn enemy. Despite that, he approached calling the game with an irony, a self-awareness that it was impossible to not fall in love with.

Over the past couple of years, it had become more and more obvious that Red's health was failing. First they brought in former Bull Stacey King to "help" Johnny call the game. Then this year, Kerr's role became limited to pregame and halftime spots. The last couple months he wasn't even able to do those consistently.

A few weeks ago, the Bulls held a ceremony at halftime of a Pistons game to honor Johnny for all he has meant to the organization. Former teammate Dolph Schayes came. Former boss Jerry Colangelo was there. Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen gave speeches. President Obama appeared on the jumbotron to express his appreciation of Johnny Red Kerr.

Then, because Red was too weak to speak on his own behalf, his son Matt came out with a piece of paper and read Johnny's words to the UC crowd. When Matt was finished, Johnny just couldn't let it end that way. He tried unsuccessfully for a moment to get Matt's attention, so Matt could give him the microphone and the piece of paper. When he finally did get them from his son, he quipped, "Never did listen," sending chuckles through the crowd and breaking the tension. He gave a speech that was just about as long as the one he'd prepared on paper. He struggled through it, visibly having difficulty finding the right words to say, finding the strength to speak them. It might be cheesy to say, but by the time he was finished there wasn't a dry eye in the stadium or in my house.

It may not be known to everybody who watches the game, but LeBron's pregame ritual with the resin is actually a riff on a ritual Michael Jordan and Red would play through before each game. Mike would always get two handfuls of the stuff, walk over to where Red was sitting and clap them in his direction. Coughing fits and hilarity would ensue. My first reaction to LeBron's "theft" of this ritual was indignation, but now I know that every time I see LBJ toss the resin up in the air, I'll think of Johnny Kerr, so I'm glad he does it.

For much longer than I've been a Bulls fan, Kerr has been here. Through the entire MJ era. Through the championships and the two year hiatus. Through the decade of rebuilding that followed MJ's second retirement. You know, the highs and the lows and all that. He will be missed. I miss him now. RIP

[ZANNI_1276]

[quote name='add-on' post='1702647' date='Feb 27 2009, 16.16']Van Lier was part of the scrappy defensive-minded Bulls backcourt of the 1970's. The other member was Jerry Sloan.[/quote]

That was one of the all time "A man's man Team" - Norm was one tough SOB and a great player.

RIP Red Kerr. Class act and truly all time NBA great. The association was a better place because of him.

Sad day for Bulls Fans....

[Dirk Llama]

Oh, Stephon.

He's exactly what I expected him to be. Or, he will be exactly what I expected him to be. He threw a nice pass, and a couple shitty ones (though, one was to Mikki Moore, who can't catch a pass. He won't make that mistake again) and hit a shot in the first half. Got torched on D by Brandon Rush, but he was [i]trying[/i] which is a bonus. With Tony Allen masking his D, he'd look better. He can still handle the ball against pressure, which sets him apart from their other options. He can help offensively, maybe make the second unit more consistent offensively. Hopefully.

[Arakasi]

Looks like the top of the league is coming back to the pack a bit here lately. Of course injuries is a big part of it, but its not like the teams behind don't have their own injury issues either. LA, Boston, Cleveland and Orlando have all struggled. Houston and Utah are really picking things up. It's starting to look more like last year, when people thought any of 8-10 teams could win, and not just the 3 most people have thought for most of this year. Not that I think the title will go to any team outside the top 3, but at least I think some team like Utah or maybe even Houston has somewhat of a shot.

[Young Wolf]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1705005' date='Mar 2 2009, 14.23']Looks like the top of the league is coming back to the pack a bit here lately. Of course injuries is a big part of it, but its not like the teams behind don't have their own injury issues either. LA, Boston, Cleveland and Orlando have all struggled. Houston and Utah are really picking things up. It's starting to look more like last year, when people thought any of 8-10 teams could win, and not just the 3 most people have thought for most of this year. Not that I think the title will go to any team outside the top 3, but at least I think some team like Utah or maybe even Houston has somewhat of a shot.[/quote]

To be fair, Shaq is playing like a god the past two games. He was a major problem for the Lakers. Not to mention Matt fucking Barnes having the game of his life. Wtf? Just sloppy defense and lots of lazy fouls by the Lakers.

Denver just spanked the Lakers. Nothing else to really say about that. I think the second worst shooting percentage ever for the Lakers that game. Just bad.

Only thing that worries me a bit is the bench has been relatively non-existant the past couple games. Some people need to step up (Im looking at you Ariza and Walton).

[add-on]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1705005' date='Mar 2 2009, 13.23']Looks like the top of the league is coming back to the pack a bit here lately. Of course injuries is a big part of it, but its not like the teams behind don't have their own injury issues either. LA, Boston, Cleveland and Orlando have all struggled. Houston and Utah are really picking things up. It's starting to look more like last year, when people thought any of 8-10 teams could win, and not just the 3 most people have thought for most of this year. Not that I think the title will go to any team outside the top 3, but at least I think some team like Utah or maybe even Houston has somewhat of a shot.[/quote]
The problem I have with Houston is just how dumb their perimeter players can be. In their win over Cleveland, they almost let the Cavs back in by hoisting perimeter shot after perimeter shot during the first part of the fourth instead of going to the Yao-Scola well (and yeah, I include Scola there as he was pretty much having his way with the Cavs front line on that night).

Then, a couple of nights ago, Houston gave away a 17-point lead in the fourth quarter to the Bulls because they refused to dump it in to Yao. I mean, Brad Miller was playing some good defense on him, but...it's Brad Miller! You have to be able to get the ball down there. But Yao went scoreless in the fourth because Artest and Wafer were outside hoisting ill-advised shots.

If they want to have any postseason success, Adelman has to drill it into his wings' heads that the offense goes through Yao for [i]all four quarters[/i], and not just as long as they feel like it.

I love Artest's D, and god knows I love me a guy with some 'tude, but that fucker gets downright moronic sometimes.


I really don't see the Cavs loss of Ben Wallace as as big a deal as everyone seems to be making of it. He's not that good anyways, and this way, you get a lot of valuable time in for Hickson, who could be infinitely more valuable come playoff time.

Cleveland's bigs were weak anyways. Losing Ben doesn't change the fact that a team with Houston's pieces would stomp them down low regardless.

[AutumnEvenings]

I love my Jazz. :love:

We play Houston and then Denver at home this week, before packing our bags for a road trip back East. I really think this could launch us way, way up there. We [i]can[/i] beat both of those West teams, we've done it before, and we're at home.

{By the way, can I just point and stick my tongue out at Detriot? I wasn't happy at all with the AI/Billups trade. If Detroit fucked us, at least they fucked themselves too. I think they're realizing that too late.}

Our road trip begins with teams we really, really should beat. It ends with a back-to-back Maimi and Orlando. I'm hoping we can get over whatever it is that prevents us from winning on the road with this trip. We've got a huge fat streak going, plus sentimental motivation (Larry Miller's death), and tons of confidence. The interviews with our non-stars (who rose to the occassion) have been awesome (or as awesome as sports interviews ever are, taking it one game at a time of course). These guys were [i]expected[/i] (Sloan does not ask) to do more than they thought they could, and now some of the pressure's off (though Boozer's still struggling, obviously), and they're like "it's so easy now" and go out and nail 20 points. Even Korver's shooting better. So I think we can do it, I really do. Win those easy games, and then use that momentum to beat one of Maimi/Orlando. (We really suck at back-to-backs, and those are both good teams. But maybe we can do both.)

We have a really tough finishing schedule, but I think we can land one of the top four spots. I also think we can win our division, but we have to do it on our own and not (sadly) expect Portland and Denver to lose games to make it easy on us.

My main concern are the god-damned Spurs. We stuggle so badly against that team. We play them once more, in SA. If we win that game, I wouldn't hesitate to bet that it's Utah/LA, and it's a long, dirty series. And we win. :P

Edit: Utah/LA in the West, obviously. Not sure who it'll be in the East. I'm leaning towards the Cavs, though. For the Finals, I say the West wins, because no way is LA gonna lose twice if it's them, and if it's us, well, we're just that awesome. :)

[ZANNI_1276]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1705005' date='Mar 2 2009, 14.23']Looks like the top of the league is coming back to the pack a bit here lately. Of course injuries is a big part of it, but its not like the teams behind don't have their own injury issues either. LA, Boston, Cleveland and Orlando have all struggled. Houston and Utah are really picking things up. It's starting to look more like last year, when people thought any of 8-10 teams could win, and not just the 3 most people have thought for most of this year. Not that I think the title will go to any team outside the top 3, but at least I think some team like Utah or maybe even Houston has somewhat of a shot.[/quote]

Not sure if I agree as well. Celts did have a let down against the Clips & lost a tough at home to Detroit. Orlando though, losing Nelson killed these guys, no matter how much Alston will fool you into thinking he is consistent they may have fallen back a step from the BOS/CLE group but still will dominate most other Eastern teams. CLE though, even the loss against a tough Rockets@HOU (get to them in second) I wouldn't consider falling back to the the pack. Past week they soundly beat the Pistons and won some pretty tough games on the road, SA is still tough even if it just the Tony Parker show and ATL is so, so tough at home. Looks like CLE is going to sign Joe Smith, he should be in uniform for the Wed game, so they were able to shore up the front line. BOS and CLE still are the teams to beat, going to come down to the last week to see who gets home court, pretty convinced of that one but they going head to head this Friday, going to be a great one to watch.

West though is a little more marred. HOU is suprisingly playing better without T-Mac, they are a physical tough team and are going to be a bitch to play in a best of 7 come April. UTAH seems to be getting it's shit together too - I know injuries have plagued them all year but guys are coming back and as much as I think Mike Brown has done a tremendous job Jerry Sloan should collect his first COY award. DEN is playing well, NO seems to have worked through some first half issues and you can never discount Popovich and Co and the Suns look like they are ready to play though they need to make me a believer. So I think the west is a little less clear cut particularly with a Bynum-less Laker team. Any of these teams can come out of the west, Lakers, SA, Den, UTAH, HOU, NO and to some degree POR if they can get consistent. Whereas I think you are looking at either BOS or CLE out of the EAST, the west can be one of 7 teams in the West that can be playing in the Finals....

[Arakasi]

Well sure, but earlier this year the thought was that nobody outside the top 3 (or 4 when Nelson was healthy) had a shot. The Lakers winning the west was thought of most to be a lock. With Utah and Houston playing like they are now I don't think anyone can say. Maybe it is more that Houston finally got rid of their millstone and Utah finally got healthy more than the lead pack dropping back, but the gap has narrowed.

Edit: Yeah I was talking more about the West. The East still is the big 3, no matter how they might be more vulnerable. No one outside Atlanta is credible, and no one thinks Atlanta could pull off 2 upsets. One maybe, but not 2.

[ZANNI_1276]

[quote name='Triskele' post='1705694' date='Mar 3 2009, 03.19']Utah is a darkhorse to watch out for. Been treading water with injuries but might be getting right at just the right time. Milsap was a great draft pick.[/quote]
I hear you and on board...Jazz healthy is bad for the West....No Bynum, makes things a little easier for the Jazz, just need to get over the HOU hump and be mature enough to match up with SA and they are contenders.
[quote name='Triskele' post='1705694' date='Mar 3 2009, 03.19']Count me officially paranoid. Oden is now going to be out at least another ten days. Now Portland's future is still great even if Oden never plays another game, but it sure would suck to have gotten nothing out of a #1 pick like that. Let me point out that this knee problem is on the opposite knee upon which he had microfracture surgery. That makes me slightly less afraid but does lend to the idea that this guy has major injury proneness.[/quote]
Tell me you wouldn't take Durant with a "do over"? Oden will never be healthy, or let me correct myself, he will never be the dominate force he could have been but will be relayed to being a defensive shot blocker rebounder/no OFFENSIVE player. I hope he gets healthy.

[quote name='Triskele' post='1705694' date='Mar 3 2009, 03.19']I have been very encouraged by what he's done when he's been able to play. He has trouble with fouls to be sure but he has racked up something like 15 double-doubles already. And experience-wise, he's a college sophomore. I am still quite confident that if healthy, he's going to be a major factor inside though he'll never score like Durant does. But I'm less confident that he will be healthy.[/quote]
Again hind sight but I was an anti ODEN guy (and I am a big OSU guy to boot)...Kevin Durant, Aldridge, Roye...Man that team would have been trouble - for EVERYONE.

[Exa Inova]

[quote]Count me officially paranoid. Oden is now going to be out at least another ten days. Now Portland's future is still great even if Oden never plays another game, but it sure would suck to have gotten nothing out of a #1 pick like that. Let me point out that this knee problem is on the opposite knee upon which he had microfracture surgery. That makes me slightly less afraid but does lend to the idea that this guy has major injury proneness.[/quote]
Doesnt he walk like Sanford even when healthy? Maybe he's working his good leg to much to ease of his mcro fractured leg.

I havent really dug deep in that discussion you guys had about white players but it seems someone picked it up. Here's what Rosen had to say about it:
Question
[i]Whenever race comes into a conversation it becomes a volatile subject, and will continue to be so until we achieve true racial equality. My question is actually more of a statement that I'm hoping will provoke a response from you: White European basketball players are better than white American basketball players. — Ben Craven, London, UK [/i]

I[b] think you're probably right, for the following reasons:


European players generally get better coaching at an earlier age, so their fundamentals are apt to be more solid.


Because of this, they're usually better versed in the intricacies and the necessity of team-oriented basketball.

Many of them come from war-ravaged parts of the world and are therefore not subject to the super-star syndrome that plagues so many American hoopers.

Which means that European players are usually more coachable, more mature, and more willing to accept personal responsibility for their mistakes.
On the flip side, white European players are generally less physical than their American counterparts, as well as being demonstrably inferior on defense.

Here are the best players in each category.

Euros: Andrea Bargnani, Andris Biedrins, Jose Calderon, Rudy Fernandez, Pau Gasol, Zydrunas Ilglauskas, Andrei Kirilenko, Linas Kleiza, Nenad Krstic, Dirk Nowitzki, Mehmet Okur, Sasha Pavlovic, Peja Stojakovic, Hedo Turkoglu, Beno Udrih, and Sasha Vujacic.

Americans: Steve Blake, Matt Bonner, Nick Collison, Mike Dunleavy, Jeff Foster, Matt Harpring, Kirk Hinrich, Chris Kaman, Kyle Korver, David Lee, Mike Miller, Brad Miller, Troy Murphy, Brian Scalabrine, Wally Szczerbiak, and Luke Walton.

In a playoff series, I'll take the Europeans to beat the Americans four games to two.[/b]

Although I agree with his conclusion that European whites would beat american whites, the part about 'war-ravaged parts' is utter bullshit.

I dont know about you guys but I LMAO at Shaq comment that Chris Bosh is the RuPaul of big men.

Got to see the Suns and the Lakers a couple of times (also playing each other, suns win) and I noticed a few things:
Suns cant play defense (shocker!) but they seem to think they can. They shouldnt hope or bet on stopping teams with their defense. Maybe Golden State but thats about it.
In losses and in though games Kobe takes over to the point that he only passes when all other options are no longer available, His team turn into the Cavs with everybody standing around watching him and delivering him the ball as quick as possible. The spurs can take them.