Watchmen II (Spoilers ahoy)

[The Pita]

The old one passed the 400 post mark, so here's a shiny new thread, with a horrible title.
WARNING SPOILERS

SPOILER: Movie End

For those who didn't read it in the last thread, the new ending is that there is no squid, but many bombs using Manhattan's power in key cities all over the world. I think that in this version, there's gonna be some colloboration between Ozzy and the Doc as well.
Also, my opinion in this change is that it is better. Not only can it remove the plotline with the pirate comic author man guy, but it also makes more sense than SQUID, which is a good thing. Also, the invasion is not by aliens any more, but from Manhattan, who is more than a likely threat.
Maybe there's gonna be a heroic sacrifice of the Doc?
I dunno.

Discuss.

[Rumarumo]

Not a big fan of this supposed alternate ending, for the same reason that has been stated a thousand times in the old thread, and which I will re-state here: the whole idea of the squid was that it was so random, so unexpected, and so "WTF?!" was that it would cow mankind into banding together to face this "outside threat". Manhattan isn't an outside threat, despite his superhuman-ness. He was once American, the US had laid claim to him half-mascot half-ultimate weapon, so I can't help but feel that no matter what he did, even if he were to lay waste to American and Soviet cities alike, there would still be those in the Soviet Union who'd either believe he still had some ultimate US agenda in mind, or simply blame the US for letting him off the leash.


Plus, I wanted to see the reactions of those who are experiencing Watchmen for the first time when a giant psychic exploding "space"-squid pops out of nowhere :lol:


That said, doesn't mean I don't still :drool: and :bow: at the thought of this movie, alternate ending or no. Roll on March 6th.

[potsherds]

I'm currently reading the graphic novel. Should I be reading all the stuff between the chapters? I'm worried I'm missing stuff if I don't, but it'll significantly extend the time it takes to read the novel.

[DanteGabriel]

[quote name='potsherds' post='1701183' date='Feb 26 2009, 15.20']I'm currently reading the graphic novel. Should I be reading all the stuff between the chapters? I'm worried I'm missing stuff if I don't, but it'll significantly extend the time it takes to read the novel.[/quote]
I think you should read it. There will be stuff that will make less sense as you go along if you don't.

[BrightSider]

I just finished, and I only got my copy taken away by mean teachers twice :thumbsup:

[quote name='potsherds' post='1701183' date='Feb 26 2009, 15.20']I'm currently reading the graphic novel. Should I be reading all the stuff between the chapters? I'm worried I'm missing stuff if I don't, but it'll significantly extend the time it takes to read the novel.[/quote]

The stuff in between really helps out with who's who, people's relationships, and all that jazz. And it gives little clues throughout the book about certain people...

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='potsherds' post='1701183' date='Feb 26 2009, 14.20']I'm currently reading the graphic novel. Should I be reading all the stuff between the chapters? I'm worried I'm missing stuff if I don't, but it'll significantly extend the time it takes to read the novel.[/quote]

Not only will you miss stuff, but the 'in-between' reading is sometimes some of the most interesting passages in the book. It really adds alot to the background, flavor, atmosphere and story. Sure it adds a bit more time, but this is a web forum devoted to a book series filled with nearly 1,000 page novels. I don't think a few pages here and there of actual text should be that much of a problem. Its all meant to be read and you should absolutely read it all.

Though I will second whoever mentioned it in the last thread that the Pirate storyline was a needless distraction. Just wasn't as interesting or compelling as the rest of the stuff in there and it was annoying whenever it cut in.

[potsherds]

[quote name='EHK for a True GOP' post='1701250' date='Feb 26 2009, 21.16']Not only will you miss stuff, but the 'in-between' reading is sometimes some of the most interesting passages in the book. It really adds alot to the background, flavor, atmosphere and story. Sure it adds a bit more time, but this is a web forum devoted to a book series filled with nearly 1,000 page novels. I don't think a few pages here and there of actual text should be that much of a problem. Its all meant to be read and you should absolutely read it all.[/quote]
Yessir, will do.

[G'Kar]

[quote name='EHK for a True GOP' post='1701250' date='Feb 26 2009, 16.16']Though I will second whoever mentioned it in the last thread that the Pirate storyline was a needless distraction. Just wasn't as interesting or compelling as the rest of the stuff in there and it was annoying whenever it cut in.[/quote]

I also thought it was pointless when first reading Watchmen, but after re-reading the graphic novel, I realized I had completely missed the fact that everything said at the newstand is directly connected to the Dark Freighter speech bubble in the same frame, and its actually quite clever. Plus, the line at the end with Ozymandius wondering if he has become the sailor is great.

[Bolton Bastard]

I liked the Black Freighter, thought it added some nice detail to the world and enjoyed the parallels.

And yes, read the stuff between the chapters. They're all if not necessary worthwhile (except the piece on birds... that just bored me)

[Werthead]

[url="http://www.sfx.co.uk/page/sfx?entry=film_review_watchmen"]SFX's review[/url]. Surprisingly critical, but in the end they gave it 3.5 out of 5.

[quote name='The Pita Enigma' post='1701049' date='Feb 26 2009, 18.30']WARNING SPOILERS

I dunno.
Discuss.[/quote]

I think SPOILER TAGS are required for this one. Just saying 'SPOILERS' and then leaping straight in isn't very helpful, especially as I thought you just meant spoilers for people who haven't read the book.

[Fatuous]

The Black Freighter stuff: "What if Alan Moore rewrote comics history and replaced the silver age Super Hero revival with more non Comic Code EC/DC stories." It says absolutely nothing about the people and especially their type of heroes, the ones they have and the ones they feel they needed {Any, perchance?}. Oh yeah, completely unnecessary in a story about Super Heroes who became ennui in tights. Because who needs context, when you get right down to it?

I think I went from dripping with sarcasm to oozing the stuff.

And the Black Freighter's in the long cut of the movie. Probably because Snyder thought it was ... "Visual". The art plus the Four Color Process {the dots} really reminded me of my old EC books. It was so good, I had to keep reminding myself that the whole series was a fabrication: Not only comic book fiction but a fiction of a comic book.

[Durckad]

[quote name='Fatuous' post='1701406' date='Feb 26 2009, 17.06']The Black Freighter stuff: "What if Alan Moore rewrote comics history and replaced the silver age Super Hero revival with more non Comic Code EC/DC stories." It says absolutely nothing about the people and especially their type of heroes, the ones they have and the ones they feel they needed {Any, perchance?}. Oh yeah, completely unnecessary in a story about Super Heroes who became ennui in tights. Because who needs context, when you get right down to it?

I think I went from dripping with sarcasm to oozing the stuff.

And the Black Freighter's in the long cut of the movie. Probably because Snyder thought it was ... "Visual". The art plus the Four Color Process {the dots} really reminded me of my old EC books. It was so good, I had to keep reminding myself that the whole series was a fabrication: Not only comic book fiction but a fiction of a comic book.[/quote]
While I would agree that the Black Freighter sub-story is (somewhat) pertinent to the plot, personally, I thought it cut in and disrupted the flow of the story waaaay too much. Cut the Black Freighter stuff by half (hell even more) and it'd be fine, but by the end, I was pretty much skimming over it. The other little interludes and tangents were far more interesting than the Black Freighter.

[DanteGabriel]

While I've never had any objection to the Black Freighter stuff, I do tend to skip over it on re-reads. I also feel like, with a text as multi-layered as Watchmen, the Black Freighter thing is a little tacked on... and maybe guilding the lily a bit.

[The Man]

The cut and thrust of the Black Freighter mirrored the events of the main plot perfectly. It's hardly irrelevant at all. That said I can see why it was cut out for the theatre release, but I hope they put it back in for the DVD.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='The Man' post='1701686' date='Feb 26 2009, 20.55']The cut and thrust of the Black Freighter mirrored the events of the main plot perfectly. It's hardly irrelevant at all. That said I can see why it was cut out for the theatre release, but I hope they put it back in for the DVD.[/quote]

I'm not saying its irrelevant and the parallels are clear enough, its just not an interesting read. It did disrupt the flow of the rest of the story. It was something that I constantly felt the desire to skip over even though I slogged through it since I was pretty sure i'd miss something if I didn't. And at the end of the day, I don't really think it adds enough to the reading experience to really be necessary or even desirable. The work was more than good enough without it. I don't think the Black Freighter story line was a grievous offense, but I don't really think the story or the comic misses much by removing it.

[The Man]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree; I thought the fact that Watchmen demonstrated that the comic book literature of the time, despite it being almost an inversion of what happens in our world, still managed to reflect real-world occurrences and even predate them was pretty significant.

Interesting interview with David Hayter and Alex Tse:

[url="http://watchmencomicmovie.com/023009-watchmen-david-hayter-alex-tse.php"]http://watchmencomicmovie.com/023009-watch...er-alex-tse.php[/url]

It makes me feel a lot better about the removal of the squid. This may have already been posted as I didn't check the last few pages of the previous thread.

[switters]

[quote name='potsherds' post='1701183' date='Feb 26 2009, 14.20']Should I be reading all the stuff between the chapters?[/quote]

Yes! You should at least read the "under the hood" sections, if for nothing else than the fact that Moore's prose is good stuff.

As for the movie, everything I've seen looks good. Still not sure if they can pull this off. If they don't screw it up, it has the potential to be better than [i]TDK[/i].

[Galactus]

Gah, he totally missed the point didn't he?

It's SUPPOSED to come out of nowhere with little or no setup. You're not SUPPOSED to be able to figure out what's going on (unless you've read the story before)

[The Man]

I knew something was up by about the ninth or tenth chapter. I had no idea that it'd involve a supposed alien tentacle squid, but the setup for the existence of such a thing was there. What he's saying is that the setup for the existence of such a thing isn't there if you don't have the between-the-chapters material. I don't get that as implying that you should be able to figure out that Ozy is plotting to murder millions of New Yorkers from the start. I just get that as just implying that the major plot twist of the film won't seem completely implausible given the universe the film has established, which it would if it were still the squid without the setup. Keep in mind the whole subplot involving psychics and the island and whatnot has also been removed.

[Brude]

So, the Hollywood Reporter reviewer hated the movie but the Variety reviewer gave it a mostly positive review with some reservations. I'm not sure why Rotten Tomatoes lists Variety's as a negative review, about 80% of what's in there is pretty positive. They've been known to do that sometimes, though. You can find links to the reviews on RT or Metacritic.