Shryke Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='The Man' post='1701967' date='Feb 27 2009, 02.22']I knew something was up by about the ninth or tenth chapter. I had no idea that it'd involve a supposed alien tentacle squid, but the setup for the existence of such a thing was there. What he's saying is that the setup for the existence of such a thing isn't there if you don't have the between-the-chapters material. I don't get that as implying that you should be able to figure out that Ozy is plotting to murder millions of New Yorkers from the start. I just get that as just implying that the major plot twist of the film won't seem completely implausible given the universe the film has established, which it would if it were still the squid without the setup. Keep in mind the whole subplot involving psychics and the island and whatnot has also been removed.[/quote] Aye. Basically,it wouldn't really work in the movie because it's like: Going along, stuffs happening, there's a fight,more stuff, OMG GIANT PHYSIC SQUID MONSTER THAT KILLS NEW YORK!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatuous Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1702738' date='Feb 27 2009, 17.16']Aye. Basically,it wouldn't really work in the movie because it's like: Going along, stuffs happening, there's a fight,more stuff, OMG GIANT PHYSIC SQUID MONSTER THAT KILLS NEW YORK!!![/quote] Nay, basically it [b]would[/b] work in a Watchman movie because nothing else shows how fucking batshit insane Adrian is or, conversely, the kind of genius he really is. Would it have worked in this one? "Subtlety" combined with the guy who did the "Zombies must run fast" Dawn of the Dead remake? I can answer that one but you wouldn't like it. And again, the weapon wasn't the squid but the mind of dead psychic Roland Deschain that set off the killing sprees, suicides, heart attacks and put the fear of Godless Monsters in the survivors. The monster's explosion only killed those in Times Square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Still doesn't really explain where psychics come from though. Apart from information between the chapters there really isn't any indication that anyone has psychic powers, so it would seem pretty random. also I'm pretty sure the psychic's name wasn't Roland Deschain, as that's the main character of the Dark Tower. Though it's been awhile since I read the supplemental information in Watchmen, but I don't think Moore would make such an unsubtle literary reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hell, I found the whole physic squid shit to be random and out of nowhere in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1702820' date='Feb 27 2009, 18.20']Hell, I found the whole physic squid shit to be random and out of nowhere in the book.[/quote] ... Except for the Central American freighter scene and the sketch of the creature in the artist's book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1702839' date='Feb 27 2009, 18.33']... Except for the Central American freighter scene and the sketch of the creature in the artist's book...[/quote] Just because they foreshadowed a giant fucking physic squid a bit doesn't mean it wasn't out of nowhere. I mean, seriously, it's a giant physic squid. That's just fucking out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1702844' date='Feb 27 2009, 18.38']Just because they foreshadowed a giant fucking physic squid a bit doesn't mean it wasn't out of nowhere. I mean, seriously, it's a giant physic squid. That's just fucking out there.[/quote] They didn't foreshadow it. It wasn't like there was some kind of calamari motif running through early chapters that was supposed to clue you in to the coming tentaclepocalypse. They showed it. Made references to the great big baby sitting in the ship's hold. Broadly I agree that changing the squid in the movie was a smart move, since it allowed them to cut out a whole subplot. But it wasn't out of nowhere. ETA: And yes, I don't think a giant alien squid, even with setup, would have really gone over well as the climax of a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 The character's name is Robert Deschaines. The seeds of the squid-monster are all in place, with Deschaines missing head, Veidt's genetically engineered creature Bubastis, and I think a couple other pieces like the mystery of what shook up Blake so much, the special effects artist who had disappeared, and so on. But certainly, outside of a comic book, it would probably seem kind of crazy. Which is, I think, part of the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 opps, Ran beat me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='Ran' post='1702855' date='Feb 27 2009, 18.44']The character's name is Robert Deschaines. The seeds of the squid-monster are all in place, with Deschaines missing head, Veidt's genetically engineered creature Bubastis, and I think a couple other pieces like the mystery of what shook up Blake so much, the special effects artist who had disappeared, and so on. But certainly, outside of a comic book, it would probably seem kind of crazy. Which is, I think, part of the idea.[/quote] That's my point. It was built up, but it's still just ... weird and didn't sit right with the rest of the story imo. It reminds me of the end of the new Indiana Jones movie. They keep building towards it, and you kinda know what the answers gonna be, but you REALLY wish it was something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Of course, an alien attack uniting the Earth is strangely appropriate. Reagan, starting in 1985, began to allude to his belief that if some alien force threatend the Earth, he believed the United States and the USSR would set aside their differences to combat the menace. I'm not sure if Moore was specifically riffing off this, but art imitates life sometimes, either way. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brude Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I liked the squid and in the context of the comic I bought it just fine. That being said, I think it could easily turn into a kind of "Abyss" blunder of an ending on film - just one of those visual things that could fail miserably and ruin the impact of the film. It's not impossible to make the image work, but I have a feeling the filmmakers couldn't figure out a way to do it in their own minds. The solution they have come up with (from what I hear of it) sounds very workable to me. The giant squid is supposed to be "just fucking out there" - so weird and strange that how could anyone ever begin to think it was created artificially. [quote name='Fatuous' post='1702813' date='Feb 27 2009, 18.14']The monster's explosion only killed those in Times Square.[/quote] Small nitpick, the explosion killed everybody in the vicinity of Madison Square Garden, not Times Square, which is abou 1/2 a mile away. That being said, the kill radius of the thing may well have included the Times Square area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 The giant squid wasn't necessarily an issue in the book for me. What I did find more effective were all the side-stories about Rorscharch's psychiatrist, the kid reading the comic, the news vendor, the couple having the falling-out on the street, and how it all culminated in their horrific deaths. Intersting to see if those elements remain in the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1702738' date='Feb 27 2009, 23.16']Aye. Basically,it wouldn't really work in the movie because it's like: Going along, stuffs happening, there's a fight,more stuff, OMG GIANT PHYSIC SQUID MONSTER THAT KILLS NEW YORK!!![/quote] Again, that's the point. You're supposed to get an idea that something is coming but ot what. And making it into Dr. Manhattan doesen't work: Because Manhattan is a known factor. The entire point is that the psychic squid is a NEW threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siyrean Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 i get them changing the giant squid, but i hate that it's Manhattan instead who is clearly American. if Veidt wanted to unite the world against the US, then it works, but it really pisses me off that it's assumed the audiance simply won't question that the world would would't place blame at the US. or that peace born of fear of retribution and some all mighty god figure is different than uniting in the face of a completely exterior threat. cowering in fear and uniting in arms are completely different :tantrum: and WTF is with that horrible accent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolton Bastard Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 [quote name='siyrean' post='1703319' date='Feb 28 2009, 10.53']i get them changing the giant squid, but i hate that it's Manhattan instead who is clearly American. if Veidt wanted to unite the world against the US, then it works, but it really pisses me off that it's assumed the audiance simply won't question that the world would would't place blame at the US. or that peace born of fear of retribution and some all mighty god figure is different than uniting in the face of a completely exterior threat. cowering in fear and uniting in arms are completely different :tantrum: and WTF is with that horrible accent![/quote] Actually I thought them targeting Manhattan makes a bit of sense. It was shown how easy it was to make the people turn on Manhattan. As well as if they do target US cities along with the general knowledge that Manhattan has left the world the Ruskies won't blame the US. (assuming that genius boy Veidt has thought of this and all other possible negative solutions which was essentially what we had to do for Watchmen's normal ending as well). However my problem is that how would it unite the world once Dr. M leaves. Does he leave? How does everyone know it was him? The giant evil alien was easy to see. They had a body. Unless Dr. M makes some speech to the world before he attacks everyone's just going to see bombs going off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G'Kar Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 [quote name='siyrean' post='1703319' date='Feb 28 2009, 10.53']and WTF is with that horrible accent![/quote] If you are talking about Ozymandias, I agree with you. Here is the explanation for it from [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen_%28film%29"]wikipedia[/url]: [quote]Goode interpreted Veidt's backstory to portray him with a German accent in private and an American one in public; Goode explained Veidt gave up his family's wealth and traveled the world, becoming a self-made man because he was ashamed of his parents' [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi"]Nazi[/url] past, which in turn highlighted the themes of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream"]American Dream[/url] and the character's duality.[/quote] It just makes me cringe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pita Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 It also adds an unwelcome layer to Ozzy's statement that the comedian was practically a Nazi. Two days ago there was a contest in Israel for free Watchmen tickets for today... I didn't get them. Just so I know that it wasn't because i got the answer wrong: The first entry in Rorschach's Journal is at October 12, 1985? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 That's correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pita Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 I DID get them in the end... but I'm pretty sure I'm not going. It means I get home at 2:00 AM on a school day... Fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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