Onion Knight

The ASOIAF wiki thread

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And done on our side! Thanks for the pointer, Evrach. This is exciting. :)

For those wanting to figure out how to link up our articles to the French wiki, see Eddard Stark. Basically, at the bottom of an entry, add:

[[fr:<name of page on the French site, i.e. Eddard Stark, or Nord for the French page on the North>]]
Just to be briefer and clearer, then:
[[fr:Eddard Stark]] or [[fr:Nord]]

Edited by Ran

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BTW, anyone representatives of foreign fan groups? I know the Spanish, Russian, German, and Italian fans are not insubstantial groups. It'd be amazing if more native-language wikis developed, so that we could all share interwiki links and perhaps other resources. :)

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Interesting. Looks like Wikipedia is going through one of its convulsions and a lot of the fancruft pages are being cleared out. 'Wars in A Song of Ice and Fire' and 'Strongholds' are up for deletion and I do not doubt that 'Tourneys' and some of the others will follow. Looks like Happy Ent's dream of pushing Wikipedia's guidelines to the limit is about to be scuppered. I recommend copy-pasting valuable pages to the other Wikis before they are lost for good, as I can't see any argument that would save those pages from being deleted from Wikipedia.

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Thanks for the heads up, Wert. Way too hot today for me to even think about doing the move, but hopefully someone else can. IIRC it was mostly just copying, pasting, and apending the attribution tag...

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I also asked my dad (professional artist/graphic designer) to throw together a new logo for the Wikia. To avoid trampling on copyright I suggested just nicking the Welsh dragon (if it's good enough for Bantam...). It turned out pretty smart so if you're interested in using it on the board one as well, here it is.

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Looks nice but shouldn't it have three heads?

I copied the tourney info to Tourneys in Westeros. We have enough info about the Strongholds and the wars in other pages.

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Looks nice but shouldn't it have three heads?

I copied the tourney info to Tourneys in Westeros. We have enough info about the Strongholds and the wars in other pages.

The Welsh dragon doesn't have three heads, and neither does the one Bantam stuck on the cover of ADWD (which is still one of the cheapest art design decisions I've ever heard of). This was also a case of my dad agreeing to knock something up in ten minutes (he usually charges for this stuff ;) ) rather than designing something from scratch.

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Regarding discussion of Amoka's art, isn't there an issue that regardless of if he gives us his permission to use it and the license allows us to use it without screwing up the copyright, there is another issue in that most of his pictures have already appeared in-print in The Art of Ice and Fire? Wouldn't that mean that regardless of what Amoka says, we'd need to get GRRM and Fantasy Flight's permission to use the images? Or was it just a case that they 'borrowed' the images from Amoka but he retains the original use of them?

This could have a bearing on the Total War mod as well.

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In fact, Amok always says that while he allows the use of his standard portraits, the ones from the Targaryen Kings are not allowed since they were done specifally for "The Art of Ice and Fire Book". I'm sure there should not be any problem with the others: Amok wouldn't give permission to use images he has given exclusive rights to someone else.

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Hi Im from La Garde de Nuit, the French website.

I've started addding links between our wikis (all A and B letters characters for now) so if you want to translate some of our articles you can use these new links to access them faster ;)

Edited by lordberry

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Thank you, lordberry! :)

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Interesting. Looks like Wikipedia is going through one of its convulsions and a lot of the fancruft pages are being cleared out. 'Wars in A Song of Ice and Fire' and 'Strongholds' are up for deletion and I do not doubt that 'Tourneys' and some of the others will follow. Looks like Happy Ent's dream of pushing Wikipedia's guidelines to the limit is about to be scuppered. I recommend copy-pasting valuable pages to the other Wikis before they are lost for good, as I can't see any argument that would save those pages from being deleted from Wikipedia.

Let me add another perspective to this:

Part of the current criticism of the Wikipedia pages is valid. They do indeed lack sources. They would improve a lot if somebody added these sources. Everybody would win.

Problem: Nobody maintains these pages anymore. So nobody is going to add those sources.

Why? Because the activities of this very board. We have now become more than just a not-attributing, lazy, copycat. Now, we make it even worse

As I’ve said before, the main contribution so far of Wikipedia-external wiki-activities has been a dilution of resources. It has manifestly not increased quality. To put it starkly, lots and lots of pages have been copied from the good Wikipedia-editors’s work, with very little payback. It’s as bad as I feared several years ago. And now it’s even worse: the original, content-rich material is going the way of the Dodo because the community is excited about something else, something new and fresh (just like a few years ago!) So now, with the imminent death of really good Wikipedia content, this monster has finally eaten the parent that birthed it. I am not impressed. (If the monster had produced lots of amazing new content, the case would be completely different!)

Will the Wars page ever be festooned with sources, in any of its myriad copies? No. Would it be if we had continued editing Wikipedia? Yes.

Am I wrong? Show me. I’m happy to be convinced.

But I’m just ranting and not contributing. Sorry for that – I imposed a ban on myself for editing non-work related material on Wikipedia some years ago, and won’t change that.

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I'm starting to translate e few article, so could anyone brief me on the wiki's oraganisation.

For example what categories do you have, how do you like article to be presented etc..

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I think maybe organization is still sort of ... up in the air right now, heh. I do know that there was some discussion concerning character pages. I believe the Jaime Lannister page was being used as the primary experiment and demonstration of our "house style" for character pages.

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In preparation for upgrading the forum to version 3.0, we asked Sparks to upgrade PHP and MySQL to the recommended levels. She's done that, but unfortunately it appears it's broken the wiki. I am going to be looking into the problem -- it may have to do with the Mediawiki version we're running not being up to snuff to handle the latest PHP and MySQL.

It looks like the problem lies with the IPB Wiki bridge. I am going to post to see if it can be corrected. It doesn't matter too much, though, because currently IPB 3 and IPB wiki are not compatible (yet -- the developer says he ought to have a compatible IPB Wiki ready sometime next week). This will mean that the wiki will, unfortunately, have to be down over that time frame.

Edited by Ran

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Will the Wars page ever be festooned with sources, in any of its myriad copies? No. Would it be if we had continued editing Wikipedia? Yes.

Am I wrong? Show me. I’m happy to be convinced.

There is no way that those pages were going to survive on Wikipedia itself. They were non-notable and there are no sources to back them up. The book pages, the page on the author, the page on the series, even a page on the characters (we can probably find references to critics mentioning the differentiation of the characters from other fantasy series, the whole 'so venemous they could eat the Borgias' quote and so forth), but on the wars, tournaments and strongholds? I'm not seeing it. We knew they were fancruft when we created them, but went ahead because lots of other series and franchises had similar pages. Now they're all being shut down, and in most cases I'm not seeing an argument for keeping them going.

Edited by Werthead

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HE,

I don't think your criticism is fair at all.

1) Wikipedia and the Wiki of Ice and Fire were two different projects not mutually exclusive. One is an encyclopedic approach based in notability, vericability and neutrality. The other is a place to store every single bit of trivia knowledge related to the books.

2) You speak of "dilution of resources", but we are not resources. We are fans trying to have fun. I might not be interested in writting about the real world influences of George's work, but perhaps I enjoy writting Hot Pie's biography.

3) The pages on the Wikipedia are not being deleted for lack of references. They are being deleted because they are not notable. Plain and simple. Precisely because of that valid references can't be found: the books are a primart source (not acceptable) and fan pages are not reputable source (also not acceptable). Many of the articles in the wikipedia would never belong there, regardless of the existence of our wiki or the amount of collaborators there.

We have now become more than just a not-attributing, lazy, copycat. Now, we make it even worse

4) Please, check the wiki. Less than a quarter of the articles are now copied from the wikipedia. Many of the ones that were copied have been improved. A lot of new intresting articles have been created. And I am not aware of any copied article without attribution (an attribution which is much more prominent than what common usage establishes).

Edited by The hairy bear

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No talent, no self-denial, no brains, no character, is required to set up in the grumbling business; but those who are moved by a genuine desire to do good have little time for murmuring or complaint.

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Just to update, besides looking into getting help with the wiki problem from the IPBWiki developer, it seems it may also just be a general issue with PHP 5.3.0. It is a brand new release with a lot of funny changes, so to speak, from prior versions which seems to be playing merry havoc with MediaWiki and some of the extensions. We've contacted Sparks to see whether it'd be possible to shift down to 5.2.1 or later, but it's probable the wiki will remain down until sometime this weekend.

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