Onion Knight

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I was looking for some information about mammoths and haven’t found much on the wiki’s entry.

So I searched the books and found a few I thought would be nice to have there.

  1. Rattleshirt’s armor has great bones of mammoths in it.
  2. AGOT – Jeor Mormont said that Cotter Pyke wrote about mammoths in the east.
  3. AFFC – Sam tells Jon that he read stories of the Others riding corpses of mammoths and other animals.
  4. ADWD – Jon notices that some wildling gave a toy mammoth made of actual mammoth hair as part of the treasure lost to the NW.

Quotes:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Jon IX

Cotter Pyke writes of vast herds of elk, streaming south and east toward the sea, and mammoths as well.

A Clash of Kings - Jon VIII

As man and mount grew nearer Jon could hear them clattering; both were armored in bones. Cow bones, sheep bones, the bones of goats and aurochs and elk, the great bones of the hairy mammoths . . . and human bones as well.

A Feast for Crows - Samwell I

The Others come when it is cold, most of the tales agree. Or else it gets cold when they come. Sometimes they appear during snowstorms and melt away when the skies clear. They hide from the light of the sun and emerge by night . . . or else night falls when they emerge. Some stories speak of them riding the corpses of dead animals. Bears, direwolves, mammoths, horses, it makes no matter, so long as the beast is dead.

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XII

And there were queerer things: a toy mammoth made of actual mammoth hair, an ivory phallus, a helm made from a unicorn's head, complete with horn. How much food such things would buy in the Free Cities, Jon Snow could not begin to say.

 

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4 hours ago, Ckram said:

I was looking for some information about mammoths and haven’t found much on the wiki’s entry.

So I searched the books and found a few I thought would be nice to have there.

  1. Rattleshirt’s armor has great bones of mammoths in it.
  2. AGOT – Jeor Mormont said that Cotter Pyke wrote about mammoths in the east.
  3. AFFC – Sam tells Jon that he read stories of the Others riding corpses of mammoths and other animals.
  4. ADWD – Jon notices that some wildling gave a toy mammoth made of actual mammoth hair as part of the treasure lost to the NW.

Quotes:

 

Added the info, and more ;)

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There is in the articel about the battle of the Blackwater something that bothers me, in the box that describes  the strengths is a breakdown of stannis his fleet:

Fleet: ~200 ships:[N 2]

  • ~51 royal war galleys[N 3]
  • ~9 war galleys from the lords of the Narrow Sea[N 4]
  • Myrish sellsails[2][N 5]
  • sailed ships, carracks and lumbering great cogs[3]
  • 25 Lysene pirate galleys[N 6]

This breakdown seems to asume that the sailed ships are not warships and not part of the royal fleet or the ships that are provided by the Lords of the Narrow Sea. However GRRM does seem to consider these types of ships to be warships as evidenced by this articel from the "So spake Martin" archive:

The Lannister Fleet

Submitted By: Kay-Arne Hansen

Mr. Martin, we found it peculiar that Tyrion considered the importance of the Greyjoy fleet in aCoK (when Balon's message reached him in KL), since he never thinks about the West's own naval strength and it's usefulness against the Starks.

So we began to doubt said strength.

Did Tywin ever rebuild the Lannister fleet, after Euron burned it eight years ago?

And if he rebuilt it, did he ever appoint a permanent commander of this fleet?

Yes, Lord Tywin certainly replaced the ships that were lost.

However, as far as naval power goes, the only fleets comparable to that of the Greyjoys are the royal fleet (most of it destroyed on the Blackwater) and the Redwyne fleet, based on the Arbor. Besides the king, the Greyjoys and Redwynes are the traditional sea powers of Westeros.

The lords whose lands abut the coast of the Sunset Sea all keep a war galley or three about for coastal defense, and of course those shores are home to scads of fishing boats as well. The Lannisters have a larger and much grander fleet, but we're still only talking about twenty to thirty ships, perhaps. To fight a major battle, they would call the ships of their various bannermen, just as Stannis summoned the lords of the narrow sea for the battle on the Blackwater.

For what it's worth, however, their ships would be larger and more formidable than the longships of the ironmen -- cogs, carracks, and war galleys of various sides, up to the great dromonds with scorpions and catapults on deck.

The Tyrells are in more or less the same position as the Lannisters, though they depend even more on their bannermen, especially the lords of the Shield Islands off the mouth of the Mander. The Hightowers have only a few warships, but control Oldtown, home to numerous trading vessels.


Submitted by Kay-Arne Hansen

September 24, 1999

 

Since this is in 1999 and clash of kings was publiced in 1998 i do think this info aplies to stannis his fleet aswell, and that means the sailed ships are warships, which would greatly increase the number of ships provided by the Lords of the Narrow Sea.

I personnaly think the breakdown should reflect this information and if you guys agree i would like to ask someone with acces to change they info or ad at least a reference to this info so people know of this possibility.

Edited by direpupy

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15 minutes ago, direpupy said:

There is in the articel about the battle of the Blackwater something that bothers me, in the box that describes  the strengths is a breakdown of stannis his fleet:

Fleet: ~200 ships:[N 2]

  • ~51 royal war galleys[N 3]
  • ~9 war galleys from the lords of the Narrow Sea[N 4]
  • Myrish sellsails[2][N 5]
  • sailed ships, carracks and lumbering great cogs[3]
  • 25 Lysene pirate galleys[N 6]

This breakdown seems to asume that the sailed ships are not warships and not part of the royal fleet or the ships that are provided by the Lords of the Narrow Sea. However GRRM does seem to consider these types of ships to be warships as evidenced by this articel from the "So spake Martin" archive:

The Lannister Fleet

Submitted By: Kay-Arne Hansen

Mr. Martin, we found it peculiar that Tyrion considered the importance of the Greyjoy fleet in aCoK (when Balon's message reached him in KL), since he never thinks about the West's own naval strength and it's usefulness against the Starks.

So we began to doubt said strength.

Did Tywin ever rebuild the Lannister fleet, after Euron burned it eight years ago?

And if he rebuilt it, did he ever appoint a permanent commander of this fleet?

Yes, Lord Tywin certainly replaced the ships that were lost.

However, as far as naval power goes, the only fleets comparable to that of the Greyjoys are the royal fleet (most of it destroyed on the Blackwater) and the Redwyne fleet, based on the Arbor. Besides the king, the Greyjoys and Redwynes are the traditional sea powers of Westeros.

The lords whose lands abut the coast of the Sunset Sea all keep a war galley or three about for coastal defense, and of course those shores are home to scads of fishing boats as well. The Lannisters have a larger and much grander fleet, but we're still only talking about twenty to thirty ships, perhaps. To fight a major battle, they would call the ships of their various bannermen, just as Stannis summoned the lords of the narrow sea for the battle on the Blackwater.

For what it's worth, however, their ships would be larger and more formidable than the longships of the ironmen -- cogs, carracks, and war galleys of various sides, up to the great dromonds with scorpions and catapults on deck.

The Tyrells are in more or less the same position as the Lannisters, though they depend even more on their bannermen, especially the lords of the Shield Islands off the mouth of the Mander. The Hightowers have only a few warships, but control Oldtown, home to numerous trading vessels.


Submitted by Kay-Arne Hansen

September 24, 1999

 

Since this is in 1999 and clash of kings was publiced in 1998 i do think this info aplies to stannis his fleet aswell, and that means the sailed ships are warships, which would greatly increase the number of ships provided by the Lords of the Narrow Sea.

I personnaly think the breakdown should reflect this information and if you guys agree i would like to ask someone with acces to change they info or ad at least a reference to this info so people know of this possibility.

If you can post exactly what it should say, I'll update the page ;) 

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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49 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

If you can post exactly what it should say, I'll update the page ;) 

Whel its the wording really, it suggests that these sailed ships are not warships so simply changing sailed ships to sailed warships and adding a link in the references to the so spake martin about these ships being warships should do. the link to the articell: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1049

unfortunatly we don't know if they belonged to the Royal Fleet or to the Narrow Sea Lords probably a bit of both so the part saying there are 51 royal war galleys and 9 from the Lords of the Narrow sea should really be 60 war galleys ommithing the Royal part since that is not certain and a lot more of these galleys could be from the Narrow Sea Lords.

Edited by direpupy

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6 hours ago, direpupy said:

Whel its the wording really, it suggests that these sailed ships are not warships so simply changing sailed ships to sailed warships and adding a link in the references to the so spake martin about these ships being warships should do. the link to the articell: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1049

unfortunatly we don't know if they belonged to the Royal Fleet or to the Narrow Sea Lords probably a bit of both so the part saying there are 51 royal war galleys and 9 from the Lords of the Narrow sea should really be 60 war galleys ommithing the Royal part since that is not certain and a lot more of these galleys could be from the Narrow Sea Lords.

I've changed the 51 royal war galleys / 9 war galleys from the lords to 60 war galleys ships, with a footnote stating that at least 9 of them belong to the lords of the narrow sea (and specifying them).

But since the text in ACOK literally states "sailed ships", and the SSM discusses the ships in the Lannister fleet, which aren't present at the Blackwater, I've left that part unchanged.

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On 23-4-2017 at 10:08 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

I've changed the 51 royal war galleys / 9 war galleys from the lords to 60 war galleys ships, with a footnote stating that at least 9 of them belong to the lords of the narrow sea (and specifying them).

But since the text in ACOK literally states "sailed ships", and the SSM discusses the ships in the Lannister fleet, which aren't present at the Blackwater, I've left that part unchanged.

actually it describes the sailed ships as carracks and cogs which is the same as the ships he describes in the lannister fleet showing clearly that GRRM does consider these types of ships to be warships.

I will give you the quotes:

from ACOK

Fury herself would center the first line of battle, flanked by the Lord Steffon and the Stag of the Sea, each of two hundred oars. On the port and starboard wings were the hundreds: Lady Harra, Brightfish, Laughing Lord, Sea Demon, Horned Honor, Ragged Jenna, Trident Three, Swift Sword, Princess Rhaenys, Dog's Nose, Sceptre, Faithful, Red Raven, Queen Alysanne, Cat, Courageous, and Dragonsbane. From every stern streamed the fiery heart of the Lord of Light, red and yellow and orange. Behind Davos and his sons came another line of hundreds commanded by knights and lordly captains, and then the smaller, slower Myrish contingent, none dipping more than eighty oars. Farther back would come the sailed ships, carracks and lumbering great cogs, and last of all Salladhor Saan in his proud Valyrian, a towering three-hundred, paced by the rest of his galleys with their distinctive striped hulls.

from the SSM

For what it's worth, however, their ships would be larger and more formidable than the longships of the ironmen -- cogs, carracks, and war galleys of various sides, up to the great dromonds with scorpions and catapults on deck.

 

But i leave it up to you to decide if you want to change it to sailed warships or just leave it as sailed ships.

Thanks for the change you already made.

Edited by direpupy

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