Onion Knight

The ASOIAF wiki thread

1,724 posts in this topic

I was looking for some information about mammoths and haven’t found much on the wiki’s entry.

So I searched the books and found a few I thought would be nice to have there.

  1. Rattleshirt’s armor has great bones of mammoths in it.
  2. AGOT – Jeor Mormont said that Cotter Pyke wrote about mammoths in the east.
  3. AFFC – Sam tells Jon that he read stories of the Others riding corpses of mammoths and other animals.
  4. ADWD – Jon notices that some wildling gave a toy mammoth made of actual mammoth hair as part of the treasure lost to the NW.

Quotes:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Jon IX

Cotter Pyke writes of vast herds of elk, streaming south and east toward the sea, and mammoths as well.

A Clash of Kings - Jon VIII

As man and mount grew nearer Jon could hear them clattering; both were armored in bones. Cow bones, sheep bones, the bones of goats and aurochs and elk, the great bones of the hairy mammoths . . . and human bones as well.

A Feast for Crows - Samwell I

The Others come when it is cold, most of the tales agree. Or else it gets cold when they come. Sometimes they appear during snowstorms and melt away when the skies clear. They hide from the light of the sun and emerge by night . . . or else night falls when they emerge. Some stories speak of them riding the corpses of dead animals. Bears, direwolves, mammoths, horses, it makes no matter, so long as the beast is dead.

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XII

And there were queerer things: a toy mammoth made of actual mammoth hair, an ivory phallus, a helm made from a unicorn's head, complete with horn. How much food such things would buy in the Free Cities, Jon Snow could not begin to say.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ckram said:

I was looking for some information about mammoths and haven’t found much on the wiki’s entry.

So I searched the books and found a few I thought would be nice to have there.

  1. Rattleshirt’s armor has great bones of mammoths in it.
  2. AGOT – Jeor Mormont said that Cotter Pyke wrote about mammoths in the east.
  3. AFFC – Sam tells Jon that he read stories of the Others riding corpses of mammoths and other animals.
  4. ADWD – Jon notices that some wildling gave a toy mammoth made of actual mammoth hair as part of the treasure lost to the NW.

Quotes:

 

Added the info, and more ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Added the info, and more ;)

Way more. Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

There is in the articel about the battle of the Blackwater something that bothers me, in the box that describes  the strengths is a breakdown of stannis his fleet:

Fleet: ~200 ships:[N 2]

  • ~51 royal war galleys[N 3]
  • ~9 war galleys from the lords of the Narrow Sea[N 4]
  • Myrish sellsails[2][N 5]
  • sailed ships, carracks and lumbering great cogs[3]
  • 25 Lysene pirate galleys[N 6]

This breakdown seems to asume that the sailed ships are not warships and not part of the royal fleet or the ships that are provided by the Lords of the Narrow Sea. However GRRM does seem to consider these types of ships to be warships as evidenced by this articel from the "So spake Martin" archive:

The Lannister Fleet

Submitted By: Kay-Arne Hansen

Mr. Martin, we found it peculiar that Tyrion considered the importance of the Greyjoy fleet in aCoK (when Balon's message reached him in KL), since he never thinks about the West's own naval strength and it's usefulness against the Starks.

So we began to doubt said strength.

Did Tywin ever rebuild the Lannister fleet, after Euron burned it eight years ago?

And if he rebuilt it, did he ever appoint a permanent commander of this fleet?

Yes, Lord Tywin certainly replaced the ships that were lost.

However, as far as naval power goes, the only fleets comparable to that of the Greyjoys are the royal fleet (most of it destroyed on the Blackwater) and the Redwyne fleet, based on the Arbor. Besides the king, the Greyjoys and Redwynes are the traditional sea powers of Westeros.

The lords whose lands abut the coast of the Sunset Sea all keep a war galley or three about for coastal defense, and of course those shores are home to scads of fishing boats as well. The Lannisters have a larger and much grander fleet, but we're still only talking about twenty to thirty ships, perhaps. To fight a major battle, they would call the ships of their various bannermen, just as Stannis summoned the lords of the narrow sea for the battle on the Blackwater.

For what it's worth, however, their ships would be larger and more formidable than the longships of the ironmen -- cogs, carracks, and war galleys of various sides, up to the great dromonds with scorpions and catapults on deck.

The Tyrells are in more or less the same position as the Lannisters, though they depend even more on their bannermen, especially the lords of the Shield Islands off the mouth of the Mander. The Hightowers have only a few warships, but control Oldtown, home to numerous trading vessels.


Submitted by Kay-Arne Hansen

September 24, 1999

 

Since this is in 1999 and clash of kings was publiced in 1998 i do think this info aplies to stannis his fleet aswell, and that means the sailed ships are warships, which would greatly increase the number of ships provided by the Lords of the Narrow Sea.

I personnaly think the breakdown should reflect this information and if you guys agree i would like to ask someone with acces to change they info or ad at least a reference to this info so people know of this possibility.

Edited by direpupy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

15 minutes ago, direpupy said:

There is in the articel about the battle of the Blackwater something that bothers me, in the box that describes  the strengths is a breakdown of stannis his fleet:

Fleet: ~200 ships:[N 2]

  • ~51 royal war galleys[N 3]
  • ~9 war galleys from the lords of the Narrow Sea[N 4]
  • Myrish sellsails[2][N 5]
  • sailed ships, carracks and lumbering great cogs[3]
  • 25 Lysene pirate galleys[N 6]

This breakdown seems to asume that the sailed ships are not warships and not part of the royal fleet or the ships that are provided by the Lords of the Narrow Sea. However GRRM does seem to consider these types of ships to be warships as evidenced by this articel from the "So spake Martin" archive:

The Lannister Fleet

Submitted By: Kay-Arne Hansen

Mr. Martin, we found it peculiar that Tyrion considered the importance of the Greyjoy fleet in aCoK (when Balon's message reached him in KL), since he never thinks about the West's own naval strength and it's usefulness against the Starks.

So we began to doubt said strength.

Did Tywin ever rebuild the Lannister fleet, after Euron burned it eight years ago?

And if he rebuilt it, did he ever appoint a permanent commander of this fleet?

Yes, Lord Tywin certainly replaced the ships that were lost.

However, as far as naval power goes, the only fleets comparable to that of the Greyjoys are the royal fleet (most of it destroyed on the Blackwater) and the Redwyne fleet, based on the Arbor. Besides the king, the Greyjoys and Redwynes are the traditional sea powers of Westeros.

The lords whose lands abut the coast of the Sunset Sea all keep a war galley or three about for coastal defense, and of course those shores are home to scads of fishing boats as well. The Lannisters have a larger and much grander fleet, but we're still only talking about twenty to thirty ships, perhaps. To fight a major battle, they would call the ships of their various bannermen, just as Stannis summoned the lords of the narrow sea for the battle on the Blackwater.

For what it's worth, however, their ships would be larger and more formidable than the longships of the ironmen -- cogs, carracks, and war galleys of various sides, up to the great dromonds with scorpions and catapults on deck.

The Tyrells are in more or less the same position as the Lannisters, though they depend even more on their bannermen, especially the lords of the Shield Islands off the mouth of the Mander. The Hightowers have only a few warships, but control Oldtown, home to numerous trading vessels.


Submitted by Kay-Arne Hansen

September 24, 1999

 

Since this is in 1999 and clash of kings was publiced in 1998 i do think this info aplies to stannis his fleet aswell, and that means the sailed ships are warships, which would greatly increase the number of ships provided by the Lords of the Narrow Sea.

I personnaly think the breakdown should reflect this information and if you guys agree i would like to ask someone with acces to change they info or ad at least a reference to this info so people know of this possibility.

If you can post exactly what it should say, I'll update the page ;) 

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

49 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

If you can post exactly what it should say, I'll update the page ;) 

Whel its the wording really, it suggests that these sailed ships are not warships so simply changing sailed ships to sailed warships and adding a link in the references to the so spake martin about these ships being warships should do. the link to the articell: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1049

unfortunatly we don't know if they belonged to the Royal Fleet or to the Narrow Sea Lords probably a bit of both so the part saying there are 51 royal war galleys and 9 from the Lords of the Narrow sea should really be 60 war galleys ommithing the Royal part since that is not certain and a lot more of these galleys could be from the Narrow Sea Lords.

Edited by direpupy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, direpupy said:

Whel its the wording really, it suggests that these sailed ships are not warships so simply changing sailed ships to sailed warships and adding a link in the references to the so spake martin about these ships being warships should do. the link to the articell: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1049

unfortunatly we don't know if they belonged to the Royal Fleet or to the Narrow Sea Lords probably a bit of both so the part saying there are 51 royal war galleys and 9 from the Lords of the Narrow sea should really be 60 war galleys ommithing the Royal part since that is not certain and a lot more of these galleys could be from the Narrow Sea Lords.

I've changed the 51 royal war galleys / 9 war galleys from the lords to 60 war galleys ships, with a footnote stating that at least 9 of them belong to the lords of the narrow sea (and specifying them).

But since the text in ACOK literally states "sailed ships", and the SSM discusses the ships in the Lannister fleet, which aren't present at the Blackwater, I've left that part unchanged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 23-4-2017 at 10:08 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

I've changed the 51 royal war galleys / 9 war galleys from the lords to 60 war galleys ships, with a footnote stating that at least 9 of them belong to the lords of the narrow sea (and specifying them).

But since the text in ACOK literally states "sailed ships", and the SSM discusses the ships in the Lannister fleet, which aren't present at the Blackwater, I've left that part unchanged.

actually it describes the sailed ships as carracks and cogs which is the same as the ships he describes in the lannister fleet showing clearly that GRRM does consider these types of ships to be warships.

I will give you the quotes:

from ACOK

Fury herself would center the first line of battle, flanked by the Lord Steffon and the Stag of the Sea, each of two hundred oars. On the port and starboard wings were the hundreds: Lady Harra, Brightfish, Laughing Lord, Sea Demon, Horned Honor, Ragged Jenna, Trident Three, Swift Sword, Princess Rhaenys, Dog's Nose, Sceptre, Faithful, Red Raven, Queen Alysanne, Cat, Courageous, and Dragonsbane. From every stern streamed the fiery heart of the Lord of Light, red and yellow and orange. Behind Davos and his sons came another line of hundreds commanded by knights and lordly captains, and then the smaller, slower Myrish contingent, none dipping more than eighty oars. Farther back would come the sailed ships, carracks and lumbering great cogs, and last of all Salladhor Saan in his proud Valyrian, a towering three-hundred, paced by the rest of his galleys with their distinctive striped hulls.

from the SSM

For what it's worth, however, their ships would be larger and more formidable than the longships of the ironmen -- cogs, carracks, and war galleys of various sides, up to the great dromonds with scorpions and catapults on deck.

 

But i leave it up to you to decide if you want to change it to sailed warships or just leave it as sailed ships.

Thanks for the change you already made.

Edited by direpupy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/27/2017 at 0:23 PM, direpupy said:

actually it describes the sailed ships as carracks and cogs which is the same as the ships he describes in the lannister fleet showing clearly that GRRM does consider these types of ships to be warships.

I will give you the quotes:

from ACOK

Fury herself would center the first line of battle, flanked by the Lord Steffon and the Stag of the Sea, each of two hundred oars. On the port and starboard wings were the hundreds: Lady Harra, Brightfish, Laughing Lord, Sea Demon, Horned Honor, Ragged Jenna, Trident Three, Swift Sword, Princess Rhaenys, Dog's Nose, Sceptre, Faithful, Red Raven, Queen Alysanne, Cat, Courageous, and Dragonsbane. From every stern streamed the fiery heart of the Lord of Light, red and yellow and orange. Behind Davos and his sons came another line of hundreds commanded by knights and lordly captains, and then the smaller, slower Myrish contingent, none dipping more than eighty oars. Farther back would come the sailed ships, carracks and lumbering great cogs, and last of all Salladhor Saan in his proud Valyrian, a towering three-hundred, paced by the rest of his galleys with their distinctive striped hulls.

from the SSM

For what it's worth, however, their ships would be larger and more formidable than the longships of the ironmen -- cogs, carracks, and war galleys of various sides, up to the great dromonds with scorpions and catapults on deck.

 

But i leave it up to you to decide if you want to change it to sailed warships or just leave it as sailed ships.

Thanks for the change you already made.

I agree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/26/2017 at 9:01 AM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Nvm

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/22/2017 at 5:51 AM, Ckram said:

I was looking for some information about mammoths and haven’t found much on the wiki’s entry.

So I searched the books and found a few I thought would be nice to have there.

  1. Rattleshirt’s armor has great bones of mammoths in it.
  2. AGOT – Jeor Mormont said that Cotter Pyke wrote about mammoths in the east.
  3. AFFC – Sam tells Jon that he read stories of the Others riding corpses of mammoths and other animals.
  4. ADWD – Jon notices that some wildling gave a toy mammoth made of actual mammoth hair as part of the treasure lost to the NW.

Quotes:

 

Nice!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

About Wyl of Wyl's acts during the First Dornish War

 

Fawnton entry on the wiki tells us this:

Quote

The acts of the Wyl of Wyl during the First Dornish War are still remembered in Fawnton and Old Oak.

Old Oak entry, this:

Quote

The infamous actions of the Wyl of Wyl are still remembered at Old Oak.

Wyl of Wyl, this:

Quote

According to Maester Yandel, the Wyl of Wyl committed infamous deeds which are still remembered in Fawnton and Old Oak, though the maester does not go into detail.

 

In first place, House Wyl entry makes no mention of this information. I have a feeling that it is relevant enough to be there, despite Yandel's refusal to go into detail.

Second, according to Yandel "[the acts of Wyl of Wyl] are infamous enough and still remembered, especially in Fawnton and Old Oak". So it seems to me that it is common knowlodge in the Seven Kingdoms, not just in Fawnton and Old Oak (althought people in those places talk about it with resentment).

Third, since this info is based on a sentence in which he refuses to tell us what happened, I think it's best to be considered as a Yandel's remark in all entries, exactly as it is in the Wyl of Wyl's page.

 

Thus, I humbly suggest it goes like this in all entries (including House Wyl):

"According to Maester Yandel, the Wyl of Wyl committed infamous deeds which are still remembered, especially in Fawnton and Old Oak, though the maester does not go into detail."

Edited by Ckram

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-6-7 at 9:36 AM, Ckram said:

About Wyl of Wyl's acts during the First Dornish War

 

Fawnton entry on the wiki tells us this:

Old Oak entry, this:

Wyl of Wyl, this:

 

In first place, House Wyl entry makes no mention of this information. I have a feeling that it is relevant enough to be there, despite Yandel's refusal to go into detail.

Second, according to Yandel "[the acts of Wyl of Wyl] are infamous enough and still remembered, especially in Fawnton and Old Oak". So it seems to me that it is common knowlodge in the Seven Kingdoms, not just in Fawnton and Old Oak (althought people in those places talk about it with resentment).

Third, since this info is based on a sentence in which he refuses to tell us what happened, I think it's best to be considered as a Yandel's remark in all entries, exactly as it is in the Wyl of Wyl's page.

 

Thus, I humbly suggest it goes like this in all entries (including House Wyl):

"According to Maester Yandel, the Wyl of Wyl committed infamous deeds which are still remembered, especially in Fawnton and Old Oak, though the maester does not go into detail."

Changed it :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 2017-6-11 at 10:07 AM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Changed it :) 

^_^

 

 

In a recent thread, @The Twinslayer pointed out some matters about Allyria Dayne that revealed some inconsistencies in several entries of the wiki. Let me quote his words:

Quote

[...]

Second, we are never told that Beric's lady is Allyria, just that the lady in question is Ned Dayne's aunt.  Beric may very well be married to the sister of Ned's mother who likely had no ties to House Dayne prior to her marriage.

Third, we don't know that Allyria is a Dayne at all.  We just know that she is Ned's aunt.  She could easily be his mother's sister.

 

In deed, in the books, Edric only says that Beric is promised to his aunt, but doesn't say her name. In another moment he say his aunt Allyria told him of Harrenhal, but don't confirm she's a Dayne:

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Arya VIII

"How long have you been Lord Beric's squire?" she asked, to take his mind from his misery.

"He took me for his page when he espoused my aunt." He coughed. "I was seven, but when I turned ten he raised me to squire. I won a prize once, riding at rings."

[...]

"He's promised to my aunt." Ned looked uncomfortable. "That was before, though. Before he . . ."

[...]

He looked at her uncomfortably. "My aunt Allyria says Lady Ashara and your father fell in love at Harrenhal—"

 

However, Allyria Dayne's page on the wiki is based on the app, a semi-canon, the only source that confirms that she's a Dayne and that she's the one berothed to Dondarrion:

Quote

Allyria Dayne is a member of House Dayne and is an aunt of the young Edric Dayne, Lord of Starfall. According to a semi-canon source,[1][2] Allyria is the aunt of Edric[3] who has been betrothed to Beric Dondarrion, Lord of Blackhaven, since 294 AC.

 

The problem is that this accurate remark is not reproduced in other entries, such the as the ones of House Dayne, Edric, Arthur and Beric, quoted below:

Quote

HOUSE DAYNE

The current Lord of Starfall, Edric Dayne, is the nephew of Arthur. Edric was sent to squire for Lord Beric Dondarrion after the betrothal of the Lord of Blackhaven to Edric's aunt, Allyria.[14][13]

[...]

The known Daynes during the timespan of the events described in A Song of Ice and Fire are:

 


 

EDRIC DAYNE

Edric Dayne, also known as Ned, is the Lord of Starfall and head of House Dayne. His father, whose name is unknown, was the elder brother of Ser Arthur, Lady Ashara, and Lady Allyria Dayne.

[...]

Edric was born at Starfall in Dorne to Lord Dayne and his wife. Edric's mother did not have enough milk for him when he was born, so he was nursed by a woman named Wylla, the alleged mother of Jon Snow. When Edric was seven, his aunt Allyria was betrothed to Lord Beric Dondarrion, with whom Edric went to Blackhaven to serve as a page. At ten, Lord Beric raised Edric to squire. He once won a prize riding at rings.[5]

 

 

ARTHUR DAYNE

Arthur was Prince Rhaegar Targaryen's closest friend.[3] He was the brother of Lady Ashara Dayne and Lady Allyria Dayne. His nephew, the son from Arthur's unknown older brother, is Lord Edric Dayne.[4]

 

 

BERIC DONDARRION

Beric Dondarrion, also known as the lightning lord because of his sigil,[8] is the Lord of Blackhaven and head of House Dondarrion. The marcher lord[9] is betrothed to Lady Allyria Dayne of Starfall. His squire is the young Edric Dayne, Lord of Starfall, Allyria's nephew.[5] In the television adaptation Game of Thrones Beric is portrayed by David Michael Scott in season 1 and by Richard Dormer in season 3.

[...]

In either 294 AC or 295 AC,[N 1] Beric was betrothed to Lady Allyria Dayne. Following their betrothal, Beric took Allyria's nephew Edric Dayne, the seven-year old Lord of Starfall, back with him to Blackhaven to serve as his page. He later makes Edric his squire.[5]

 

IMHO, it has to be rewritten so the canon and semi-canon coexist with transparency.

 

Something else I noticed is that reference nº 4 of Arthur Dayne's page mention a Davos chapter in ASOS which doesn't mention Ser Arthur at all.

Edited by Ckram

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding Beric Dondarrio's "appearence and character", is stated in the wiki that Beric "is a dashing but inexperienced young man", and references that suposed support this are AGOT - Eddard XI and ASOS - Jaime IV.

Jaime's chapter doesn't mention Beric at all. Eddard's chapter doesn't say nothing like that Beric is dashing but inexperienced.

The ones that really disdain Beric are Tywin Lannister, Brynden Tully and Robb Stark, calling him a "lordling":

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Tyrion VII

"Do you?" Lord Tywin did not seem awed. "We also have a pair of Ned Stark's afterthoughts making a nuisance of themselves by harassing my foraging parties. Beric Dondarrion, some young lordling with delusions of valor. He has that fat jape of a priest with him, the one who likes to set his sword on fire. Do you think you might be able to deal with them as you scamper off? Without making too much a botch of it?"

A Clash of Kings - Catelyn I

"Was there ever a war where only one side bled?" Her uncle gave a shake of the head. "The riverlands are awash in blood and flame all around the Gods Eye. The fighting has spread south to the Blackwater and north across the Trident, almost to the Twins. Marq Piper and Karyl Vance have won some small victories, and this southron lordling Beric Dondarrion has been raiding the raiders, falling upon Lord Tywin's foraging parties and vanishing back into the woods. It's said that Ser Burton Crakehall was boasting that he'd slain Dondarrion, until he led his column into one of Lord Beric's traps and got every man of them killed."

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn VIII

"Less than a fortnight past, they fought a battle in the hills below the Golden Tooth," Robb said. "Uncle Edmure had sent Lord Vance and Lord Piper to hold the pass, but the Kingslayer descended on them and put them to flight. Lord Vance was slain. The last word we had was that Lord Piper was falling back to join your brother and his other bannermen at Riverrun, with Jaime Lannister on his heels. That's not the worst of it, though. All the time they were battling in the pass, Lord Tywin was bringing a second Lannister army around from the south. It's said to be even larger than Jaime's host.

"Father must have known that, because he sent out some men to oppose them, under the king's own banner. He gave the command to some southron lordling, Lord Erik or Derik or something like that, but Ser Raymun Darry rode with him, and the letter said there were other knights as well, and a force of Father's own guardsmen. Only it was a trap. Lord Derik had no sooner crossed the Red Fork than the Lannisters fell upon him, the king's banner be damned, and Gregor Clegane took them in the rear as they tried to pull back across the Mummer's Ford. This Lord Derik and a few others may have escaped, no one is certain, but Ser Raymun was killed, and most of our men from Winterfell. Lord Tywin has closed off the kingsroad, it's said, and now he's marching north toward Harrenhal, burning as he goes."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Ckram said:

Regarding Beric Dondarrio's "appearence and character", is stated in the wiki that Beric "is a dashing but inexperienced young man", and references that suposed support this are AGOT - Eddard XI and ASOS - Jaime IV.

Jaime's chapter doesn't mention Beric at all. Eddard's chapter doesn't say nothing like that Beric is dashing but inexperienced.

The referenced chapters are AGOT Eddard VI and AFFC Jaime IV, not AGOT Eddard XI and ASOS Jaime IV. Ned sees Beric as "a dashing figure on a black courser." and Strongboar recalls Beric as "a comely lad in a pretty cloak, he was. Slight and callow."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Nittanian said:

The referenced chapters are AGOT Eddard VI and AFFC Jaime IV, not AGOT Eddard XI and ASOS Jaime IV. Ned sees Beric as "a dashing figure on a black courser." and Strongboar recalls Beric as "a comely lad in a pretty cloak, he was. Slight and callow."

Got it! My eyes have betrayed me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are "Fool Frey", so mocked for asking the hand of Princess Rhaenyra, and Lord Forrest Frey the same character?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Gonzalo said:

Are "Fool Frey", so mocked for asking the hand of Princess Rhaenyra, and Lord Forrest Frey the same character?

That's not known. However, "Fool Frey" was a younger son of House Frey, and Forrest eventually inherited the house, so chances are that Forrest was "Fool Frey's" older brother. But, if Fool Frey's older brother(s) all died before the war, he could have inherited, in which case, they might be one and the same.

Impossible to say at the moment without more information, as far as I am aware.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now