Onion Knight

The ASOIAF wiki thread

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On House Dayne/Appearence there is this (I bolded): "Despite their purple eyes, according to George R.R. Martin, the Daynes are not of Valyrian descent".

I checked the reference (a chat log), and notice that Ran asked about Ashara's violet eyes and George answered based on that ("[...] As for the violet eyes . . .look, Elizabeth Taylor has violet eyes, and she's not of Valyrian descent [...]").

So, wouldn't it be more accurate to say "Dispite their violet eyes [...]"?

The way it is allows us to conclude that purple eyes aren't indicative of Valyrian descent (which may or may not be the case, but do not seem to be what GRRM answered).

Edited by Ckram

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22 hours ago, The Grey Wolf said:

You mean Viserys II. Viserys I didn't do jack shit. Also, if the extended Westerlands writeup GRRM posted a while back is any indication, little of the cut material deals with trade, law, diplomacy, etc. Personally, I'm more interested in the 5K words cut from the Dothraki and Yi Ti sections of TWOIAF.

Blah, typo, I meant to write Viserys II.  

Yes, I also have not forgotten about that 5,000 words or so from the Dothraki and Yi Ti that got cut.  I'm not even sure how they'd release it.

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23 hours ago, Kandrax said:

From House Frey page: 

  • Osmund Frey, Benfrey's son. A newborn babe.  Two year old isn't a newborn.

I took that out. 

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"King of the Three Sisters" is an article about the monarchs from the islands, discussing the pirate kings of antiquity and the more recent Marla Sunderland. From what I can tell, GRRM has not used this as a proper title, however. We also don't know if the pirate kings ruled all of the Three Sisters, or if each island had its own king (like the ironborn rock and salt kings of old). Might it be better to move the article to "Sistermen monarchs"? 

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How about "Kings of the Three Sisters"?  That flows better while retaining ambiguity.

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9 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

How about "Kings of the Three Sisters"?  That flows better while retaining ambiguity.

i agree with this i think monarch is to general since a prince can also be a monarch and they books explicitly says kings.

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I have a major question for @Ran Elio and Linda which came up.  Out-of-universe question.

You've said before from your talks with GRRM that he mentioned when he got the idea for certain plotlines - how some were surprisingly late additions, while others were surprisingly early ideas (i.e. he didn't know the Three Eyed Raven was "tied to the Targaryens" in book one...but did as early as book two).  

A news site leader challenged me today that it was a good idea for the TV series to cut the Tysha reveal from the end of Season 4, "because it seemed obvious Martin shoved it in as a last minute shocker he didn't intend in earlier books, and didn't set up well".  "The drama felt manufactured when I read it at the end of book 3" -- and so on.

I scoffed at this, because Martin always said that he did plan out the general outline of major character deaths before he even began:  i.e. even before the first book was published, he knew that Robb Stark would die at the Red Wedding in book three.  Thus...something comparably on the scale of ***how Tywin Lannister dies*** strikes me as something he'd have planned out in advance.  

Thus, based on your talks with GRRM or just general knowledge....how early it be determined that GRRM knew the truth about Tysha?  Book one?

I'm stunned to see people saying it was "out of character" for Tywin when the ENTIRE POINT is that he's this horrific abuser.  His children yearn for his approval in earlier books, but it's a toxic relationship, he doesn't really love them, and the Tysha reveal proves just how abusive he actually was the entire time.  

I also ask because we were discussing it when I recorded a guest spot on the upcoming March episode of A Podcast of Ice and Fire.  "Well, when did Martin know the truth about Tysha?" etc  

 

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Never discussed Tysha with him, so could not say. But George knew in ACoK, in any case, given Jaime's remark about being loved for a kindness he had never done, obviously a clear reference to the lie he told Tyrion at his father's behest.

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4 hours ago, Ran said:

Never discussed Tysha with him, so could not say. But George knew in ACoK, in any case, given Jaime's remark about being loved for a kindness he had never done, obviously a clear reference to the lie he told Tyrion at his father's behest.

Thank you.  This should do nicely.

I found an old video David Benioff made which may finally explain why they made Jaime have dyslexia in the TV show, and why they cut the Tysha reveal.

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I just recently signed up to contribute to the wiki, but have been unable to log in, with errors saying I have cookies disabled on any browser I try, even though the settings in my browsers don't say that. The one change I had planned on making was to add a footnote about the statement that Ashara Dayne's body was never found. As far as I can tell, the books never address that question but someone asked Martin and he replied here:

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1116

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6 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

I just recently signed up to contribute to the wiki, but have been unable to log in, with errors saying I have cookies disabled on any browser I try, even though the settings in my browsers don't say that. The one change I had planned on making was to add a footnote about the statement that Ashara Dayne's body was never found. As far as I can tell, the books never address that question but someone asked Martin and he replied here:

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1116

I hope the log in issue will be fixed soon. Until then, I've added the SSM info to the Ashara Dayne page

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7 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

I just recently signed up to contribute to the wiki, but have been unable to log in, with errors saying I have cookies disabled on any browser I try, even though the settings in my browsers don't say that. The one change I had planned on making was to add a footnote about the statement that Ashara Dayne's body was never found. As far as I can tell, the books never address that question but someone asked Martin and he replied here:

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1116

Try now. Looks like the sessions directory got filled up. Also, Chrome may be dodgy on logging in, but Firefox tends to work better. Finally, if neither works directly, try putting this in first:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/varnish-bypass.php?enable=1

Then visit the login page, and if you get in, remember to do this:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/varnish-bypass.php?enable=0

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The infobox for Jon Snow includes this bastard sigil for him. Has GRRM confirmed this? If not, the infobox should instead display the House Stark sigil, IMO. 

edit: Would Valyrian Steel count?

Edited by Nittanian

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Ah, news on Fire and Blood Volume 1:

  • As already known, the chapters originally written for the World book (which could not hope to fit in it), were the Conquest, Peace of the Dragon, Heirs of the Dragon (Rogue Prince), Dying of the Dragons (Dance of the Dragons), and the Regency of Aegon III.
  • These chapters pretty much skipped over the reign of Jaehaerys I - 55 years of mostly peace.  Heirs of the Dragon starts when Jaehaerys I is at the end of his life, dealing with the two major succession crises he faced (I assume death of his eldest son, then death of second eldest, Rhaenys vs Laenor....are these the First and Second Quarrel or was that something else?)
  • GRRM mentioned to Elio that yes, he's "fleshing out" the reign of Jaehaerys I a bit more - because the earlier chapters gloss over it - so this will be new material he wrote purely for Fire and Blood (of course, the Regency is "new" to US, but still). 
  • No word in the video if there's going to be material on pre-Conquest Targaryens or Valyria -- that cryptic LiveJournal entry about Fallen Fallen is Babylon seemed to be hinting at that?  Maybe Elio didn't ask.
  • Elio did present GRRM with a summation of our biggest concerns from the boards about Errata in the print edition of Sons of the Dragon; George "has notes" on these and will apparently address in Fire and Blood version (I assume Robar vs Rogar Baratheon, Vhagar attacking Reach vs Riverlands, etc.)
  • Another big errata question Elio raised was what exactly happened to Maester Gerardys, as details have been contradictory.  GRRM is aware of them and will address in Fire and Blood.

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15 hours ago, Ran said:

Try now. Looks like the sessions directory got filled up. Also, Chrome may be dodgy on logging in, but Firefox tends to work better. Finally, if neither works directly, try putting this in first:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/varnish-bypass.php?enable=1

 

Thanks! I still can't log in, but now it's because my user name doesn't exist (I didn't realize at the time that I need to make more forum posts to take the next registration step), rather than because of cookies.

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21 hours ago, Nittanian said:

The infobox for Jon Snow includes this bastard sigil for him. Has GRRM confirmed this? If not, the infobox should instead display the House Stark sigil, IMO. 

edit: Would Valyrian Steel count?

That's the only source we have for it, as far as I know. 

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2 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

That's the only source we have for it, as far as I know. 

Do you think the infobox should display it or the Stark sigil?

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19 hours ago, Nittanian said:

Do you think the infobox should display it or the Stark sigil?

As Martin said to Valyrian Steel "as that is what bastards in Westeros often do", not confirming that Jon himself has, and Jon never identifies with a personal sigil during the series, perhaps the sigil of House Stark might be better.

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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In TWOIAF it says that the Greens captured Rosby and Stokeworth before taking Duskendale, which might be worth its own entry. Also, TPATQ implies that the Battle of the Burning Mill and the Taking of Stone Hedge were two separate defeats but I could be wrong.

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