Ser Reptitious Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Here's the story: [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7926694.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7926694.stm[/url] From the story: [quote]The Catholic Church tried to intervene to prevent the abortion going ahead but the procedure was carried out on Wednesday. Now a Church spokesman says all those involved, including the child's mother and the doctors, are to be excommunicated. The Archbishop of Olinda and Recife, Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, told Brazil's TV Globo that the law of God was above any human law.[/quote] And the really disturbing part, IMO, is: [quote]However, doctors at the hospital said they had to take account of the welfare of the girl, and that she was so small that her uterus did not have the ability to contain one child let alone two.[/quote] So, a nine year old girl gets raped by her step-father, gets pregnant, has an abortion, and the church excommicates everyone involved, even though there is a very good chance that the girl would not have survived the pregnancy? WTF? :stunned: And the icing on the cake is the fact, according to my local paper, that the step-father is not being excommunicated, because apparently, according to the Church, his crime was not as severe as the "crime" committed by her mother and the doctors. Seriously, how fucked up is this? I'd be interested to hear what people on this board that are generally against abortions think of this whole episode? Is there anyone who thinks that the Church's actions are justified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Ser Reptitious' post='1712754' date='Mar 8 2009, 16.57']Here's the story: [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7926694.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7926694.stm[/url] From the story: And the icing on the cake is the fact, according to my local paper, that the step-father is not being excommunicated, because apparently, according to the Church, his crime was not as severe as the "crime" committed by her mother and the doctors. Seriously, how fucked up is this?[/quote] do you have source for the "his crime is not as severe" aspect of it? Talk about a major faux paus if the church actually said such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I could be wrong, but when I first heard this I believe the story made a point of mentioning that the girl herself was not being excomunnicated because she was 'influenced' by the adults into the decision :ack: But still, way, way beyond fucked up. Going through with the pregnancy would have almost certainly killed this girl. I should know this, being raised as a Catholic, but is there some kind of appeal process to the Vatican? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCOTNW Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Werthead' post='1712810' date='Mar 8 2009, 19.54']I could be wrong, but when I first heard this I believe the story made a point of mentioning that the girl herself was not being excomunnicated because she was 'influenced' by the adults into the decision :ack: But still, way, way beyond fucked up. Going through with the pregnancy would have almost certainly killed this girl. I should know this, being raised as a Catholic, but is there some kind of appeal process to the Vatican?[/quote] Sure, if you deny the Holocaust you can be reinstated. Thank you Catholic Church for your regular reinforcement of my decision to disassociate myself from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I am personally against abortion, and on the fense about it as a whole. I used to be pro-choice when it came to others (even my own daughter) It is situations like this that keep me from becoming 100% pro-life. There is no way that girl should have been forced to carry a baby. 1) the doctors say she is too small to carry a child; 2) she is only [b]9[/b]; 3) she was raped; The church has lost its fucking mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jon Snow Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 There are so many things wrong with this story where do you start? :ack: First the step-father, for whom being drawn and quartered is too merciful a sentence. Then the doctors who imposed their decisions on the girl and her mother. And then the church for having its head completely up its own rear end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrazer Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Does the Catholic church do ANYTHING decent these days? Why does it get so obsessed with the issue of abortion? Why doesn't it focus it's energy on things that...well...matter? I swear, the Catholic church gets more and more pathetric with each passing day. Has it always been this bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventh Pup Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 It's official the Catholic Church hates children. (How did the church even find out about the abortion in the first place?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jon Snow Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Chataya de Venoge' post='1712855' date='Mar 8 2009, 20.59']Truly; we should not have done away with drawing and quartering as a punishment.[/quote] For guys who rape 9 yr old step daughters, nothing else really fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Seventh Pup' post='1712862' date='Mar 8 2009, 21.07']It's official the Catholic Church hates children. (How did the church even find out about the abortion in the first place?)[/quote] I really want to know as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rane Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='lockesnow' post='1712802' date='Mar 8 2009, 21.48']do you have source for the "his crime is not as severe" aspect of it? Talk about a major faux paus if the church actually said such a thing.[/quote] The archbishop said that while the rape was a horrible crime, the abortion was worse. Only have links in portuguese though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Ser Michael Jon Snow' post='1712841' date='Mar 8 2009, 20.33']There are so many things wrong with this story where do you start? :ack: Then the doctors who imposed their decisions on the girl and her mother.[/quote] What did the doctors do wrong? Her uterus was too small to have the babies. Her body could not have withstood the pregnancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rane Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Seventh Pup' post='1712862' date='Mar 8 2009, 23.07']It's official the Catholic Church hates children. (How did the church even find out about the abortion in the first place?)[/quote] This is a very public case... it's been on every major news network for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Reptitious Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='lockesnow' post='1712802' date='Mar 8 2009, 18.48']do you have source for the "his crime is not as severe" aspect of it? Talk about a major faux paus if the church actually said such a thing.[/quote] I can't give you an internet link, but here's how the Archbishop Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, who carried out the actual excommunication, was quoted in today's Edmonton Journal (from Agence France-Press): [quote]"God's law is above any human law. So when a human law... is contrary to God's law, this human law has no value," Cardoso said Thursday. He also said the accused stepfather would not be expelled from the Church. Although the man allegedly committed "a heinous crime... the abortion - the elimination of an innocent life - was more serious," he said.[/quote] :sick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mance Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Ser Michael Jon Snow' post='1712841' date='Mar 8 2009, 17.33']Then the doctors who imposed their decisions on the girl and her mother.[/quote] Do you think it would have been better if the mom had shared the churches view and forced the girl to go through with the pregnancy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Reptitious Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Ser Michael Jon Snow' post='1712841' date='Mar 8 2009, 19.33']Then the doctors who imposed their decisions on the girl and her mother.[/quote] Do you have a source for this? I don't recall reading anywhere that the doctors imposed a decision on the girl and her mother. (But even if they did, as The Mance points out, her own survival was clearly at stake, so what other course of action would you suggest?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquireThomas Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote]Do you have a source for this? I don't recall reading anywhere that the doctors imposed a decision on the girl and her mother.[/quote] I doubt he has one, from what I remember from MJS from other threads, this bit is probably just trolling. I doubt anyone had to be forced to do anything, since "do this or you die" is usually a pretty compelling argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrazer Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I, too, would like to know where he got this idea that the doctors "imposed their decisions on the girl and her mother". They wouldn't need to impose anything, it was life or death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-ahrairah Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='lockesnow' post='1712802' date='Mar 8 2009, 20.48']do you have source for the "his crime is not as severe" aspect of it? Talk about a major faux paus if the church actually said such a thing.[/quote] While it is of course severe, remember in the eyes of some abortion, being murder, is worse. [quote name='Lany Cassandra' post='1712830' date='Mar 8 2009, 21.18']I am personally against abortion, and on the fense about it as a whole. I used to be pro-choice when it came to others (even my own daughter) It is situations like this that keep me from becoming 100% pro-life. There is no way that girl should have been forced to carry a baby. 1) the doctors say she is too small to carry a child; 2) she is only [b]9[/b]; 3) she was raped;[/quote] It's things like this that tempt me into [i]not[/i] being 100% pro-life. The life of the mother presents a high argument, but so does the life of the child. And the baby might not even survive the birth, killing them both. It is never well to play at God and pick which ought to be the greater, but as much as I hate it, I would be forced to uphold new life over that which has already lived. Also an abortion is a deliberate act, while to do else wise is only following nature and not killing the mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazydog7 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Well I am utterly against abortion except in cases like this....man gives me the creeps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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