Seventh Pup Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1713073' date='Mar 9 2009, 01.36']How is it "putting beliefs above morals"? The "morals" involved are that murder is wrong. Murdering the fetus is not justified because the mother might die.[/quote] So then a mother has to chose to let herself die. She has no other moral choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='King of the Wolf Pack' post='1713060' date='Mar 9 2009, 03.21']In the end none of this matters though, because it is the girl's guardians (parents) decision, and I hope to God that I will never meet a parent who would kill their 9-year-old, recently raped, daughter, for the sake of a criminal's unborn, unformed fetus.[/quote] Why does the fetus' father matter? Is it somehow worth less because of it's parentage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirius Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Seventh Pup' post='1713074' date='Mar 9 2009, 02.36']Seriously it is mind boggling to me, but I guess I do have to remember the RCC's stance on viewing children as sexual play things. It's not that bad until we have to pay for it.[/quote] LOL!!! Very good point indeed. Unless they do something drastic about this situation, the RCC is going to be officially dead to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirius Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1713076' date='Mar 9 2009, 02.37']Why does the fetus' father matter? Is it somehow worth less because of it's parentage?[/quote] Are you telling me that you would let your 9 year old daughter die, so that you could then turn around and raise the child that your fucked-up (hopefully ex) husband fathered through rape? p.s. Shryke, are you arguing this because you believe that the RCC is justified, or just to piss me off before I go to bed so that I will lie awake all night? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Seventh Pup' post='1713075' date='Mar 9 2009, 03.37']So then a mother has to chose to let herself die. She has no other moral choice.[/quote] If you believe murder is never justified, then no she doesn't. [quote]Seriously it is mind boggling to me, but I guess I do have to remember the RCC's stance on viewing children as sexual play things. It's not that bad until we have to pay for it.[/quote] :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='King of the Wolf Pack' post='1713082' date='Mar 9 2009, 03.41']Are you telling me that you would let your 9 year old daughter die, so that you could then turn around and raise the child that your fucked-up (hopefully ex) husband fathered through rape?[/quote] That's a disgusting attitude. The child ahs no say in who it's parents are. And that's just as true after it's born as it is when it's in the womb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirius Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1713085' date='Mar 9 2009, 02.44']That's a disgusting attitude. The child ahs no say in who it's parents are. And that's just as true after it's born as it is when it's in the womb.[/quote] EXACTLY it's a disgusting attitude, and that is exactly what their attitude is. Thank you for finally coming around there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
▲Jim▲ Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1713085' date='Mar 9 2009, 01.44']That's a disgusting attitude. The child ahs no say in who it's parents are. And that's just as true after it's born as it is when it's in the womb.[/quote] The mother of these would be children had no choice either. She was raped for christ sake. She did not say "Here daddy, have sex with me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventh Pup Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1713083' date='Mar 9 2009, 01.42']If you believe murder is never justified, then no she doesn't.[/quote] I believe in self defense, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Jimmm' post='1713089' date='Mar 9 2009, 03.47']The mother of these would be children had no choice either. She was raped for christ sake. She did not say "Here daddy, have sex with me."[/quote] Nice strawman. No ones said it's the mother's fault either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Seventh Pup' post='1713090' date='Mar 9 2009, 03.47']I believe in self defense, don't you?[/quote] The RCC, as far as I'm aware, does not believe in Murder for self-defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirius Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I am quite honestly sick to my stomach at the thought that some people would condone the murder of a 9 year old child, punishing her for being raped by her demented step-father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventh Pup Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 But do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
▲Jim▲ Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1713091' date='Mar 9 2009, 01.48']Nice strawman. No ones said it's the mother's fault either.[/quote] So how is it that she should not have a choice (or in this case her guardians)? For the record I am more toward pro-life, then pro-choice. But she was raped, and is only 9. If she were to survive, and the child as well which very likely they would all die, how is hse to take care of of the baby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Triskele' post='1713094' date='Mar 9 2009, 04.49']Shryke - I can't tell if you agree with the church or just believe that you have the logical upper-hand when it comes to explaining their stance (which I concede that you do) and are enjoying arguing on those grounds. Care to elaborate?[/quote] I have no interest in doing so. That just gives people an excuse to ignore my arguments and go for personal attacks. [quote]EXACTLY it's a disgusting attitude, and that is exactly what their attitude is. Thank you for finally coming around there[/quote] What in the hell are you talking about? You just seemed to have implied that you feel the child's life is worth less because it was conceived during rape. An attitude that is, frankly, disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Jimmm' post='1713097' date='Mar 9 2009, 04.52']So how is it that she should not have a choice (or in this case her guardians)? For the record I am more toward pro-life, then pro-choice. But she was raped, and is only 9. If she were to survive, and the child as well which very likely they would all die, how is hse to take care of of the baby?[/quote] Her choices (in the eyes of RCC doctrine) are murder or not murder. Murder is wrong. I'm sure you can figure out the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventh Pup Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [i][u][b]Shrke[/b][/u][/i] Do you mind if I ask you to back up the statement that the RCC does not believe in self defense? As far as I know they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirius Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote]I have no interest in doing so. That just gives people an excuse to ignore my arguments and go for personal attacks.[/quote] I hope to God that you do not believe what you are arguing, and if you do, I wish you luck in living with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
▲Jim▲ Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1713100' date='Mar 9 2009, 01.54']Her choices (in the eyes of RCC doctrine) are murder or not murder. Murder is wrong. I'm sure you can figure out the rest.[/quote] Knowing that the mother is likely to die along with the baby and doing nothing about it is murder, just as well. Except this time there are more victims involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1713100' date='Mar 9 2009, 09.54']Her choices (in the eyes of RCC doctrine) are murder or not murder.[/quote]Murder or suicide, actually. I'm not convinced killing oneself and the cells that would become a baby or two is that much better than killing just the potential baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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