A Dothraki Arakh

[Valyrian-Steel]

We're thinking about doing a very small run of dothraki arakh replicas.

So, this is a fishing expedition, what does everyone know about arakhs? Any preexisting (official) artwork? Anyone have an opinion? Share it now.

Personally, I've always pictures a crude blade, possibly bronze (though the replica would be high carbon steel). The dothraki were fairly primitive and I'm unsure if they'd have the skill to forge long blades. So, more similar to a blade that might have been seen in BC times, rather than at the height of the middle ages.

We like to make the sword fit the purpose. So, was the arakh primarily used on horseback or foot? Was it ever used two handed or just one?

[Ran]

"She heard a shout, saw a shove, and in the blink of an eye the arakhs were out, long razor-sharp blades, half sword and half scythe." That's the chief description we get of them.

We see steel arakhs among khals and bloodriders, and non-Dothraki who wield them. Can't find any references to bronze swords other than those of the First Men or wildings beyond the Wall.


Definitely a weapon designed primarily to be used on horseback, and it's used in a slicing fashion rather than hacking, which is typical of weapons used by nomadic horsemen in our world. Because of this, I think they're probably scimitar or saber-like in design, with the edge on the outer edge rather than the inner. Something like [url="http://www.heavinforge.co.za/Mambele_Sickle_Sword.jpg"]this[/url] might be a good model to consider.

There is as of yet no official artwork where GRRM says that something is definitely an [i]arakh[/i] as he imagines it. I know that he's answered the question on one or two occasions, but I don't think the reports have ever gotten back to me as to his response.

[Yagathai]

I always pictured them something like a khopesh: [url="http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/egyptian-swords.html"]http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/egyptian-swords.html[/url]

Either that or a kukri: [url="http://media.photobucket.com/image/kukri/vaistlin/kukri.jpg"]http://media.photobucket.com/image/kukri/vaistlin/kukri.jpg[/url]

[Ocean of Notions]

I've always imagined to look a little like [url="http://medieval2.heavengames.com/m2tw/history/miscellaneous_history_folder/mongol_weapons/index.shtml"]these[/url].

[Valyrian-Steel]

[quote name='Yagathai' post='1722509' date='Mar 17 2009, 13.44']I always pictured them something like a khopesh: [url="http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/egyptian-swords.html"]http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/egyptian-swords.html[/url]

Either that or a kukri: [url="http://media.photobucket.com/image/kukri/vaistlin/kukri.jpg"]http://media.photobucket.com/image/kukri/vaistlin/kukri.jpg[/url][/quote]

Me too, the issue with them is, those are short blades and wouldn't function well on horseback.

Shorter blades weren't an issue of style or preference. The reason the Romans, and Greeks, and Egyptians, and all the other classical cultures used shorter blades, and indeed even later but primitive cultures (by Western European standards) used smaller blades, is that they lacked the metallurgy to produce longer blades. Bronze lost significant strength after a certain length, and the lacked the knowledge to forge iron and steel.

So deciding how long an arakh is kinda also declares how sophisticated the dothraki are, though I'm sure we're putting way more thought into this than GRRM did when he wrote it. If we give the Dothraki long curved steel blades precisely detailed we're giving them more sophistication than they may be meant to have.

[Guest Other-in-law]

I think it would definitely [i]not[/i] be a khopesh style. Cavalry swords normally have the blade on the outer edge as Ran said, so they don't get caught and yanked out of the wielder's hand when racing past.

Additionally, the khopesh seems like a weapon that developed out of an agricultural tool like a hand sickle...which doesn't fit the Dothraki at all. They're herdsmen, not planters of crops. An outward curving scimitar might have a coincidental superficial resemblance to a scythe from the general lines of it, even with the blade on the opposite side from an actual scythe.

Ran's and Ocean of Notions' links both look generally right.

As to the general tech level of the Dothraki, that doesn't have to be an issue. We know that most of the mansions in Vaes Dothrak were built by vanquished slaves who were brought back, and built in their own styles (and with more skill than the Dothraki themselves have). It's possible that the Dothraki could have had slave smiths forge blades for them, using superior metallurgy than they themselves originally had, while insisting that they adhere to Dothraki sword contours. Since they would probably care more about weaponry then they do about houses (preferring open sky to buildings anyway).

[Ocean of Notions]

[quote name='Valyrian-Steel' post='1722644' date='Mar 17 2009, 15.41']So deciding how long an arakh is kinda also declares how sophisticated the dothraki are, though I'm sure we're putting way more thought into this than GRRM did when he wrote it. If we give the Dothraki long curved steel blades precisely detailed we're giving them more sophistication than they may be meant to have.[/quote]

Considering the ease of trade and cultural exchange on the Continent, I don't think "sophistication" of technology is an issue. Remember, Genghis Khan, of a nomatic culture, conquered a good portion of the known world (including supposedly more "sophisticated" cultures) in the early 13th century.

I imagine the Dothraki to be a mix of Mongolian (and other eastern nomads) and Arab cultures. For example, the involvement of fighting and death at weddings was likely pulled from Mongolian practices from back in the 13th century.

[Ran]

Well, they're certainly described as long weapons (see quote in my post), in any case, and they're always described as steel weapons whenever the metal is specified.

[Yagathai]

Your practical concerns aren't something I can dispute -- cavalry weapons are curved for a very specific reason, sharp on the outside for a reason. But it's a fantasy series. ;)

[Ouroboros]

I'd always pictured them as kind of like Chinese Dao or Dadao.

[Valyrian-Steel]

If it is a scythe like blade, to me that would mean a wider blade, perhaps tapering to a point, perhaps not. As opposed to say a traditional scimitar style with a regular thin and consistently curved blade. Like a marriage between a falchion and a scimitar.

This looks interesting, a sickle, not a scythe (different, but often confused)

[url="http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/03/wam/ho_11.166.1.htm"]http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/03/wam/ho_11.166.1.htm[/url]


as does this:

[url="http://www.eriksedge.com/PH186.html"]http://www.eriksedge.com/PH186.html[/url] (though, I couldn't see using that one handed)

There is also this shape, as I would classify as a falchion or saber.

www.andreas.blicher.info/images/Scimitar.jpg

Of course, Dany might have been thinking sickle and not scythe (she was the one who made the observation right?) it isn't as if she was a farm girl. Must get GRRM to clarify.

[CiaranAnnrach]

I think the first one you posted, the "sickle sword", would be likely.

Though, how many types of swords has Daenerys seen? If all she's ever seen are long swords, bastard swords, and other of their ilk which are straight double edged weapons, wouldn't a scimitar with it's curve look like a mix between a scythe and sword, especially if that scimitar had a strong curve? Outside of these arakhs, are there any scimitars in the world of ASOIAF?

[CiaranAnnrach]

Apparently in the Game of Thrones "Tourny of Swords" card game, there is a card called "Ancient Arakh." Below is the link to the image they used for it.

[url="http://www.johngoodenough.com/images/got/arakh.JPG"]http://www.johngoodenough.com/images/got/arakh.JPG[/url]

There is another one, that is just the Arakh, in the "Ice and Fire" set. I can't find the art for that, though. As soon as I do I'll post a link. But, it looks like scimitar is the way to go for them.

["Blackfyre"]

[quote name='Yagathai' post='1722509' date='Mar 17 2009, 13.44']I always pictured them something like a khopesh: [url="http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/egyptian-swords.html"]http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/egyptian-swords.html[/url][/quote]

That is how I pictured them as well.

[Valyrian-Steel]

[quote name='CiaranAnnrach' post='1724275' date='Mar 18 2009, 15.12']Apparently in the Game of Thrones "Tourny of Swords" card game, there is a card called "Ancient Arakh." Below is the link to the image they used for it.

[url="http://www.johngoodenough.com/images/got/arakh.JPG"]http://www.johngoodenough.com/images/got/arakh.JPG[/url]

There is another one, that is just the Arakh, in the "Ice and Fire" set. I can't find the art for that, though. As soon as I do I'll post a link. But, it looks like scimitar is the way to go for them.[/quote]

That doesn't look curved at all, and I'm not sure the barbs on the back would be smart for a horse rider, you're galloping along at umteen miles an hour, the last thing you want to happen is to have your sword get caught on something.

In anycase, I believe in one of my previous conversations with GRRM he mentioned not individually approving the card game art.

[CiaranAnnrach]

That would make sense, because that ancient arakh looks very impractical from horseback. Though I'm surprised that GRRM would let something be produced under his name that didn't have his approval. I guess with the sheer volume of cards that have been produced for this game though, that would just be too tedious.

Also, take a look at this scimitar. The heavy curve on it makes it look somewhat scythe-ish in overall shape, except for the fact that the cutting edge is on the other side.

[url="http://arms2armor.com/Swords/scimitar.jpg"]http://arms2armor.com/Swords/scimitar.jpg[/url]

[Valyrian-Steel]

[quote name='CiaranAnnrach' post='1724389' date='Mar 18 2009, 16.45']That would make sense, because that ancient arakh looks very impractical from horseback. Though I'm surprised that GRRM would let something be produced under his name that didn't have his approval. I guess with the sheer volume of cards that have been produced for this game though, that would just be too tedious.

Also, take a look at this scimitar. The heavy curve on it makes it look somewhat scythe-ish in overall shape, except for the fact that the cutting edge is on the other side.

[url="http://arms2armor.com/Swords/scimitar.jpg"]http://arms2armor.com/Swords/scimitar.jpg[/url][/quote]

I'm actually advocating against a scimitar or other large C-curved blade.

The fact is, the main benefit from that style of blade is closer in slashing. From horseback that style of blade is going to result in reduced reach and power on any down strikes to standing opponents.

The khopesh style (edge on outside of curve) with a curve, but with the curve pushed out further, allows for far greater power on a down swing while still giving the option of the curved blade for glancing slashes as you gallop past. Of course, it wouldn't be an actual khopesh, which are short.

I haven't gotten a response yet but I'd bet that GRRM was specifically thinking of a khopesh when he wroke Arakh. People are always confusing scythes and sickels, and the "kh" consonant combination isn't altogether that common. Would be quite a coincidence if he didn't.

[Kalbear]

The sickle sword or khopesh posted above was precisely how I pictured Arakhs.

[Bubba]

I always imagined them as they were described in LOTR.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGOnGzJhGEk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGOnGzJhGEk[/url]

1:30-1:33, and 4:01 for a good shot of it. It looks similar to the card art. However, they're often called Dothraki arakhs, so they're probably different.

[Ran]

[quote]The fact is, the main benefit from that style of blade is closer in slashing. From horseback that style of blade is going to result in reduced reach and power on any down strikes to standing opponents.[/quote]

While this may be true, the Dothraki primarily fight among themselves, and occasionally terrorize unarmored pastoral herders and peasant farmers. Since fighting on horseback against other unarmored horsemen is the main thing they do, the advantages of a scimitar or saber-style weapon over the khopesh (which is, technically speaking, more an axe than a sword) are fairly clear. There's also the way the weapon is described in use -- a lot of slicing motions, and less the hacking that khopesh's tend to be used with (at least as I imagine them, and as some ancient depictions in Egypt and elsewhere seem to suggest).

Obviously, George is the person who can answer this question definitively (let us know the answer when you get it!), but at least as far as the reasoning goes, I do think scimitars are likelier just because that's what we see from the RL horse nomads GRRM largely borrowed from when creating the Dothraki. :)