World of Warcraft

[Zadok]

Maybe I'm biased because I'm a keyboard turner too, but the only time in PvE I can see it making a difference is if you were having to kite something. Otherwise situational awareness and knowing where the hell you have to be is much more important than turning to the most precise degree possible.

[Shryke]

[quote name='Stego' post='1722804' date='Mar 17 2009, 17.46']If by bad, you mean the RL and GM of the all content cleared top Horde guild on our server since Sunwell, then ok. :D If she makes it to being that bad,t hen she's welcome to raid with us anytime.[/quote]

Yeah, bad.

It's nice to know your overcome your own handicap though.

[Guest thebadlady]

Strafing is being underrated here. One quick key press and ZOOOM!! you are out of the way. I can't imagine any case where mouse driving gets you there faster. I think the elitism over keyboard vs mouse turning is overblown. Doing what works best for you physially is not stupid. qq.

I use Y to press to talk - then I have the mneunmonic (y = yell = talk) and either one of my hands can reach it easily depending on what I do.

Mandy, hit escape, then key bindings and scroll down (way down, iirc) to where you can toggle autorun on and off. I have mine on num lock so I can type and run at the same time.

[Stego]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1722817' date='Mar 17 2009, 17.55']Yeah, bad.

It's nice to know your overcome your own handicap though.[/quote]



Heh.


Link your armory if you want to toss the 'bad' word around. You're a warrior, aren't ya?

[Kalbear]

[quote]I can't imagine any case where mouse driving gets you there faster.[/quote]It's not about it getting you there faster. It's about being able to hit your attacks while you're on the move. It's very hard to (for example) hold down W then hit 1, 1, 2, 3, r, 2, c, 4, x, 2. Try it yourself. Now, try doing that while doing things other than the w key. Some of that can be fixed with just making sure that all your super important buttons are right above your movement keys, but then you've only got like 8 buttons to play with. If you use the mouse instead you can do whatever you like with that left hand.

[Shryke]

[quote name='thebadlady' post='1722862' date='Mar 17 2009, 18.27']Strafing is being underrated here. One quick key press and ZOOOM!! you are out of the way. I can't imagine any case where mouse driving gets you there faster. I think the elitism over keyboard vs mouse turning is overblown. Doing what works best for you physially is not stupid. qq.[/quote]

Mouseturning maens using the mouse to turn, but still using the keyboard to move. It's just like playing an FPS basically.

Keyboard turning is always slower and less precise. It's that simple.

[Zadok]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1722871' date='Mar 17 2009, 17.31']It's not about it getting you there faster. It's about being able to hit your attacks while you're on the move. It's very hard to (for example) hold down W then hit 1, 1, 2, 3, r, 2, c, 4, x, 2. Try it yourself. Now, try doing that while doing things other than the w key. Some of that can be fixed with just making sure that all your super important buttons are right above your movement keys, but then you've only got like 8 buttons to play with. If you use the mouse instead you can do whatever you like with that left hand.[/quote]

I guess it depends how you do it. My left hand is always hitting my abilties and the right hand is either moving with the actual arrow keys or on the mouse shifting the camera around. If you're using WASD I can see the problem though.

[Relic]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1722871' date='Mar 17 2009, 18.31']It's not about it getting you there faster. It's about being able to hit your attacks while you're on the move. It's very hard to (for example) hold down W then hit 1, 1, 2, 3, r, 2, c, 4, x, 2. Try it yourself. Now, try doing that while doing things other than the w key. Some of that can be fixed with just making sure that all your super important buttons are right above your movement keys, but then you've only got like 8 buttons to play with. If you use the mouse instead you can do whatever you like with that left hand.[/quote]


what Kal said.

Also, strafing while running(for me its holding my left mouse button down) is way faster than S-keying.

Keyboard turning in PvE isnt a terrible sin if you manage to get out of the way of shit, but mouse clicking without a doubt a detriment to good dps/tps. And if you keyboard turn in pvp....you might as well not pvp.

[PhelanArcetus]

[quote name='Stego' post='1722812' date='Mar 17 2009, 17.51']Shift 8!?

Are you joking? Are you 7 feet tall? How fucking big are your hands? How slow is your mouse? I would break my fucking wrist doing shift-8 with any speed. There is no way on earth that is quicker than clicking ANYWHERE on your screen. Do you not have a gaming mouse? One side of my screen to the other is far less than half a second. If you had LS bound to something like what Kal explained I could understand. That might be faster.

But Shift-8?

Holy shit.

Are my hands really that small?

Are you left handed, maybe?[/quote]

Nah, I'm just crazy. I don't have a gaming mouse, actually. I have something that nobody else I know can stand: a Kensington Trackball. [url="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YAS83PAFL._SL500_AA280_.jpg"]Image[/url]. I have regularly been asked how the hell I use it for anything, but it's very natural to me. Those three buttons on the top right are controlling iTunes, though at least two of the other three could be grabbed for gaming too.

Perhaps it's just faster in the sense that it's one mental action, rather than two. Hit the key, not "move the mouse to the button and then click".

Shift-8 is not as accessible as I would like, but the layout of all my assorted buttons is an evolving process. I won't be surprised if in a short while it becomes Shift-1, with Shield Wall on Shift-2. Some things are bound where they are more because of history than because it's necessarily a good place for them. From when Shield Slam was introduced in vanilla through to 3.0, I had it on Control-4. That one has moved, and my left hand is very thankful for it. For example, history-wise: Shield Block first went into the 6th slot on my Def stance bar when I got it, because, quite literally, it was the 6th thing I had usable in Def stance. It stayed there until Shield Block changed from a spammed thing to a cooldown. At which point it became Shift-6, to avoid throwing myself off too much. The most logical thing to do next would be to move my cooldowns upwards on the shift bar, probably keeping the top two for trinkets (even though I only have

I've improved greatly in the past several months just on hitting the cooldowns, not only in that they're easier to press, but in anticipating the need, and not being as conservative about them. There was a time when I would most likely hover the mouse over Shield Wall, waiting for the last moment before I absolutely had to hit it, in the hopes that I wouldn't need to blow a 30 minute cooldown.

I got a $30 or so gaming keyboard for my birthday about 6 months ago, and attempted to adapt to it, specifically with the idea of not having to reach for keys further to the right. However, I hadn't succeeded at all, and had shelved the idea. I may take a stab at it again. The layout was very strange, to the point where I'd need to retrain my hand entirely; I was hitting 1 when I meant to hit 2, for example.

This post has been interrupted repeatedly, up to the order of an hour. Damn work. Also I want to go home. I hope there's something drinkable in the house for St. Drunken's Day.

[Kalbear]

Hmm. Ya know, if the mouse wheel side scroll worked right in WoW, it'd be perfect. I'd just use mousewheel up to move forward, down to move back, and side to side to strafe - and then could mouselook too. Wonder if they actually have some device like that with a wheel that is basically a hat stick. That'd rock.

[Relic]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1722893' date='Mar 17 2009, 18.51']Hmm. Ya know, if the mouse wheel side scroll worked right in WoW, it'd be perfect. I'd just use mousewheel up to move forward, down to move back, and side to side to strafe - and then could mouselook too. Wonder if they actually have some device like that with a wheel that is basically a hat stick. That'd rock.[/quote]


i think it does. if you have one of those 4 ay mouse wheels i think you can bind all 4 directions in your keybindings. try it.

[Relic]

[quote name='PhelanArcetus' post='1722891' date='Mar 17 2009, 18.51']Shift-8 is not as accessible as I would like, but the layout of all my assorted buttons is an evolving process. I won't be surprised if in a short while it becomes Shift-1, with Shield Wall on Shift-2. Some things are bound where they are more because of history than because it's necessarily a good place for them. From when Shield Slam was introduced in vanilla through to 3.0, I had it on Control-4. That one has moved, and my left hand is very thankful for it. For example, history-wise: Shield Block first went into the 6th slot on my Def stance bar when I got it, because, quite literally, it was the 6th thing I had usable in Def stance. It stayed there until Shield Block changed from a spammed thing to a cooldown. At which point it became Shift-6, to avoid throwing myself off too much. The most logical thing to do next would be to move my cooldowns upwards on the shift bar, probably keeping the top two for trinkets (even though I only have[/quote]


Phel, have you tried using R, T, D, F, G, Z, X, C, V, B and their shift variations for abilities?

The left side of my keyboard is bound to just about every ability i use.

[Shryke]

[quote name='Relic' post='1722889' date='Mar 17 2009, 18.50']what Kal said.

Also, strafing while running(for me its holding my left mouse button down) is way faster than S-keying.

Keyboard turning in PvE isnt a terrible sin if you manage to get out of the way of shit, but mouse clicking without a doubt a detriment to good dps/tps. [b]And if you keyboard turn in pvp....you might as well not pvp.[/b][/quote]

This is VERY true. And is the most common source of the general contempt for Keyboard turning.

In PvE it's not AS bad, but it's still slower. It just doesn't effect as many thing in PvE.

[Kalbear]

Some of my favorite moments in wow involve keyboard turning from Thaladred. When (for whatever reason) the person would be near Thaladred, and be gazed...and we'd all be watching them as Thaladred turned towards them and slowly.walked.to.them. And they first realized this when people yelled out their name, and you could watch as they slowly.turned.around. But by the time they had turned 180, it was too late; they had died to walking man.

It was like watching a horror movie. It was great.

Relic, I had tried that with my mouse before. I'll see if I can get it to work and maybe see how it functions. Having 4 keys right in the center again would be awesome for more easily done buttons.

[Relic]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1722905' date='Mar 17 2009, 19.00']It was like watching a horror movie. It was great.[/quote]


Tons of funny WoW moments, but the most recent one was in HVH a week or so ago. I pugged it with some noobies and we get to the 18th portal. our resto sham needs some mana for whatever reason and shits down in the middle of the room to drink. Giant dragon slowly walks out into middle, casually leans forward and one shots our drinking shaman. she flops in mid drink. i rofled so hard..prot pally and my dk chain taunted the boss and downed her without a healer.

Kal, let me know how that mouse thing works out.

[PhelanArcetus]

[quote name='Relic' post='1722898' date='Mar 17 2009, 18.54']Phel, have you tried using R, T, D, F, G, Z, X, C, V, B and their shift variations for abilities?

The left side of my keyboard is bound to just about every ability i use.[/quote]

Some of those I have bound, others I don't.

For example, R, C, V, B, those are their standard WoW things of reply, Char sheet, show nameplates, and bags (all bags, not backpack; anyone who doesn't rebind the backpack key to all bags is probably crazy). T is Battle Stance / Devotion Aura / Blood Presence / Bearform (I do have a druid, she just lives in Ironforge), and G is Zerk Stance / Concentration Aura / Unholy Presence / Catform. Def / Ret / Frost / Seacow is on Y. Those I bound an extremely long time ago. For the paladin, Control T/Y/G is the resist auras, and Shift T is Crusader Aura (no, I don't bother switching when soloing; I don't consider the buff worth the keypress when most mobs die in 2-3 GCDs).

Obviously there's no need to have char sheet or show nameplates bound to anything; the one is handy, and the other I want always on, so having an easy way to turn it off is bad.

In part I'm resistant to changing things being afraid that if I make a significant change I'm going to just be incompetent for two weeks until I've adjusted to the point of being instinctive again. This leads me to tend towards making my changes slowly or piecemeal.

On the other hand, I am interested in learning how to use that gaming keyboard; it's not my $30, but I hate things going to waste, and it seems like it should be useful, if I can just adjust to it. I think it'd be easier if they hadn't put it 0-1-2-3 instead of 1-2-3----0.

Most annoying at the moment is that I'd like to take some time to play with adjusting key bindings and training myself to them, but I really can't play much right now, trying to cut back the computer usage to let my wrist heal up from whatever stress injury I've given it. I'd rather just cut back at work, but with 4 work for 4 clients (3 of them new, meaning implementation work) to do, that's not an option.

Also I can squeeze a lot of stuff that's past 6 (the limit of truly easy reach with the left hand) onto alt+1-6, which is currently mostly empty. Control-4 is also empty, though I by habit use that as the "hey I have a quest item to use" slot. And I need to pick something to put prospecting & disenchanting on for the respective characters. I wish Blizzard would automate that.

Sigh. In reviewing I just noticed that I left a half-complete sentence.

I do have two clicky trinkets. I just never actually put the mini-last stand of Repelling Charge on my bars, which I probably should. I tend to chain my Monarch Crab and Shield Block on bosses, with the ratio of actual uptime to maximum uptime being dependent on how much of a threat I consider that boss. So it might be something like:
- Trinket
- Trinket
- Potion
- Shield Block
- Last Stand
- Enraged Regen
- Shield Wall
I'd include a health stone there but, well... what the hell is a warlock? We have a 78 who doesn't play often. Not much point reserving a slot or two for an item I never have. (Actually, I think that combined with wanting to keep Shield Block tied to 6, insert those after the potion and you have my layout, though Zerk Rage is inserted for access to rage/being enraged.) I used to have warlocks around; a few people played them at 70 but then abandoned them with Wrath.

[Kalbear]

[quote]For example, R, C, V, B, those are their standard WoW things of reply, Char sheet, show nameplates, and bags (all bags, not backpack; anyone who doesn't rebind the backpack key to all bags is probably crazy). T is Battle Stance / Devotion Aura / Blood Presence / Bearform (I do have a druid, she just lives in Ironforge), and G is Zerk Stance / Concentration Aura / Unholy Presence / Catform. Def / Ret / Frost / Seacow is on Y. Those I bound an extremely long time ago. For the paladin, Control T/Y/G is the resist auras, and Shift T is Crusader Aura (no, I don't bother switching when soloing; I don't consider the buff worth the keypress when most mobs die in 2-3 GCDs).[/quote]I had turned off the buttons for the basic things, but I redid them recently so that they have a keystroke but don't have a physical button on the screen. They're all shift modifiers.
Shift-s = skillbook
shift-a achievements
shift-m world map (and alt-m carbonite map)
shift-q quest
shift-c character
shift-o social
shift-b backpack
Those I didn't need to be specially bound to anything close, so I just picked first-letter mnemonics.

I also don't have a button just for a healthstone - I have a health macro that tries to drink one of the health pots of various types in my bag, then tries to use one of my healthstones. I have another macro that does furious regen first and then does this, which ends up being kinda neat for a quick 10k health bump.

[Minaku]

I mouse turn and keyboard turn. Depends on what I'm doing. If I'm in a raid situation and I'm not going anywhere I'll keyboard turn, mouse flip. I have just about everything bound, and I mean everything.

I have the following spells keybound:

Combustion/water elemental ranged nova/faceroll macro, my racial, scorch, fireball or ffb, fireblast, cone of cold, frost nova, arcane explosion, sheep, shield, blink, invis, spellsteal, arcane blast, slowfall, ice lance, evocation, fire ward, frost ward, elemental/blastwave, missiles, counterspell, blizzard, flamestrike, iceblock, decurse, mirror image, dragon's breath, icy veins, pyroblast.

I'm out of buttons! Oh yeah, shift-down reveals my port spells and consumables. I click on non-combat buffs like armors and AI, food table, click mana gems and trinkets, though I should keybind trinkets.

[Stego]

No, no, no, Shryke. Link your armory. You don't get off that easy.




My TPS is as good as it can possibly be. Stationary or on the move. Different playing styles are different playing styles. I don't stand in shit. I don't get caught by shit. I am normally way in front of anyone in the moving department. And when I am tanking, I keyboard turn.


Edited to remove poke.

[Stego]

Double post.