The Pope thinks condoms increase the spread of HIV/AIDS

[Mr. X]

[quote name='EHK for a True GOP' post='1722975' date='Mar 17 2009, 20.04']This is Africa we're talking about. Education about AIDS is limited. Misinformation about AIDS is rampant. Some of them still think that raping a virgin will cure them for christs sake.[/quote]
This is not limited to Africa. There are high school students in the U.S.A. (there are some rather specifically in the Bronx, at the school where I teach) who think that having sex with a virgin will cure AIDS.

I wish I was making this up. :(

[The_BlauerDragon]

[quote name='Mr. X' post='1723075' date='Mar 17 2009, 18.07']This is not limited to Africa. There are high school students in the U.S.A. (there are some rather specifically in the Bronx, at the school where I teach) who think that having sex with a virgin will cure AIDS.

I wish I was making this up. :([/quote]
Will [i]CURE[/i] AIDS??? I knew we had some very dumb people in this country, but... [i][b]CURE[/b]?!?!?[/i] WOW! That's a sign of a [u]serious[/u] problem...

[The Khaleesi]

[quote name='Myshkin' post='1723072' date='Mar 18 2009, 14.06']Is this particular Pope the greatest? No. But does that warrant calling him "Palpatine" or "fucker", and generally showing absolutely no respect for the Catholic Church, or Catholics in general? Somehow I doubt there would be so much venom and disrespect if this story were about a leader of another religion.[/quote]

If the Dalai Lama had said the same thing, I'm sure I would have felt just as cross. Or if the Archbishop of Canterbury had said it, or an Imam, or Rabbi, or whoever.

I also think you are generalising here - most of the posts have not been vitreolic.

[Myshkin]

No, just the ones about "Palpanine", and "fuckers", and "pistol whipping" the Pope.

[Aemon Stark]

[quote name='EHK for a True GOP' post='1723038' date='Mar 17 2009, 21.41']Could be that. Could also be that JPII was a much more progressive Pope more prone to words and gestures that are more acceptable to the civilized world. Granted its been years since JPII was around, but I can't recall him saying things this stupid near as often. The only time I hear anything about Palpatine is when he says something stupid. I'm sure that's partially due to bad PR, but I've yet to hear a single thing to recommend the fucker.[/quote]

I think it's largely due to PR - JPII was at least as conservative as Benedict, but portrayed a more magnanimous image despite that.

[Aemon Stark]

[quote name='the Blauer Dragon' post='1723078' date='Mar 17 2009, 22.13']Will [i]CURE[/i] AIDS??? I knew we had some very dumb people in this country, but... [i][b]CURE[/b]?!?!?[/i] WOW! That's a sign of a [u]serious[/u] problem...[/quote]

Well, as recently as a few years ago Thabo Mbeki was claiming that HIV does not cause AIDS. There are enough people with superstitious beliefs around that, really, this shouldn't be that surprising.

[Myshkin]

Have at it:

[url="http://www.nysun.com/new-york/jewish-group-protests-condom-campaign/71602/"]Jews think condoms are bad![/url]

[url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pius-kamau/islam-condoms-and-aids_b_120418.html"]Muslims think condoms are bad![/url]

[url="http://condomman.typepad.com/all_about_condoms/2006/08/tanzanian_angli.html"]Anglicans think condoms are bad![/url]

[Tears of Lys]

The bigger problem is that guys don't want to wear condoms, but the pope coming out and saying what he said just gives them another excuse.

[Lord O' Bones]

[quote name='Myshkin' post='1723109' date='Mar 17 2009, 18.38']Have at it:

[url="http://www.nysun.com/new-york/jewish-group-protests-condom-campaign/71602/"]Jews think condoms are bad![/url]

[url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pius-kamau/islam-condoms-and-aids_b_120418.html"]Muslims think condoms are bad![/url]

[url="http://condomman.typepad.com/all_about_condoms/2006/08/tanzanian_angli.html"]Anglicans think condoms are bad![/url][/quote]
Are any of these select groups the head of their religion and speaking for god?

[The_BlauerDragon]

I don't want to add fuel to this fire, but maybe condoms aren't all that good... [url="http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Suit-Child-Choked-on-Used-Condom.html?corder=&pg=1"]Try this example[/url]

[Ocean of Notions]

[quote name='The Khaleesi' post='1723079' date='Mar 17 2009, 21.13']If the Dalai Lama had said the same thing, I'm sure I would have felt just as cross. Or if the Archbishop of Canterbury had said it, or an Imam, or Rabbi, or whoever.[/quote]

Are you sure about that? I'm not saying you specifically, but people in general seem to treat religions leaders and religious groups quite differently depending what they are. For example, the Dalai Lama isn't exactly friendly towards homosexuality and certain sects of Buddhism. In fact, there's been anti-protests in certain countries before the Dalai Lama visits due to these issues. However, supporting Dalai Lama's plight for a certain theocratic nation is socially accepted amongst most educated groups within Western societies. However, supporting most other theocratic organisations is not viewed as favourably. Hmmm...

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='Myshkin' post='1723072' date='Mar 17 2009, 20.06']The Pope is bound by dogma. He can't change the stance of the Church on this subject. He made an argument in favor of the Church's stance; the same argument PTAs and parent groups all over the country have been making for years; the same stance most other Christian churches and organizations hold. But since he's the head of the Catholic Church he's the one everyone focuses their vitriol on. Is this particular Pope the greatest? No. But does that warrant calling him "Palpatine" or "fucker", and generally showing absolutely no respect for the Catholic Church, or Catholics in general? Somehow I doubt there would be so much venom and disrespect if this story were about a leader of another religion.[/quote]

I focus my vitriol on anyone who takes that position who happens to come to my attention. The Pope being a world leader and all has a bigger microphone and so when he talks stupid, its likely to come to everyones attention. This is like sayings its bigger news when Obama talks than when the President of Micronesia talks. No.Shit.

[quote]No, just the ones about "Palpanine", and "fuckers", and "pistol whipping" the Pope.[/quote]

Vitriolic would seem to suggest that there was something inappropriate about the statements. I fail to see what was inappropriate in any way.

[quote]I'm not saying you specifically, but people in general seem to treat religions leaders and religious groups quite differently depending what they are. For example, the Dalai Lama isn't exactly friendly towards homosexuality and certain sects of Buddhism. In fact, there's been anti-protests in certain countries before the Dalai Lama visits due to these issues. However, supporting Dalai Lama's plight for a certain theocratic nation is socially accepted amongst most educated groups within Western societies. However, supporting most other theocratic organisations is not viewed as favourably. Hmmm...[/quote]

The Dalai Lama comes under plenty of criticism, as he should, he deserves it. But when you're the little guy being crushed under the heel of the 'eval Chinese juggernaut', you're gonna earn some sympathy.

[Myshkin]

[quote name='Lord O' Bones' post='1723113' date='Mar 17 2009, 18.40']Are any of these select groups the head of their religion and speaking for god?[/quote]
And just who are the heads of these religions (except the Anglicans)? My point being that the Catholic Church seems to get a lot of focus and blame for no better reason than that they have a definable central hierarchy, and present a unified front.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='Myshkin' post='1723109' date='Mar 17 2009, 20.38']Have at it:

[url="http://www.nysun.com/new-york/jewish-group-protests-condom-campaign/71602/"]Jews think condoms are bad![/url]

[url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pius-kamau/islam-condoms-and-aids_b_120418.html"]Muslims think condoms are bad![/url]

[url="http://condomman.typepad.com/all_about_condoms/2006/08/tanzanian_angli.html"]Anglicans think condoms are bad![/url][/quote]

Everything I just said about the Pope and the Catholic church's condom policy, apply to them as well. Happy?

[Lord O' Bones]

[quote name='Myshkin' post='1723163' date='Mar 17 2009, 19.17']My point being that the Catholic Church seems to get a lot of focus and blame for no better reason than that they have a definable central hierarchy, and present a unified front.[/quote]
And you are mostly correct. The other part being that what the Pope has said is consistently disgusting to many people.

[The_BlauerDragon]

I would have to agree that there is some merit to that Myshkin. Still, even if you look at it in a different context, that would be almost like having the President of the United States saying that oral sex didn't count as adultery... or that torture was just enhanced interrogation, or... wait... it appears that I've defeated myself again. Let's retract and say that it's a bit like having the Queen of England saying that vaccinations cause cancer, or (I'm reaching for someone other than religious or political affiliated that some people would listen to) having Steve Jobs say that donating blood causes hemophilia.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='Myshkin' post='1723163' date='Mar 17 2009, 21.17']And just who are the heads of these religions (except the Anglicans)? My point being that the Catholic Church seems to get a lot of focus and blame for no better reason than that they have a definable central hierarchy, and present a unified front.[/quote]

Christianity is the biggest religion in the world. Catholicism is bigger than all other Christian denominations put together. Unlike most religions, Catholicism has an strict hierarchy and established leader who ostensibly speaks for the whole faith. When he speaks its going to get more attention than a group of Imams who may or may not represent significant portions of the Islamic faith and a sub-group representing ultra orthodox Jews. Go figure. It'd be one thing if the criticism was unfair or excessive, its not. If you're arguing that these other groups deserve more condemnation, fair enough and I'd agree. But the Catholic church still deserves a hell of alot more itself, so I hardly see the problem.

[The_BlauerDragon]

Not to argue against you, but just to clarify one tiny thing (I admit, I'm nitpicking here): [url="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article3653800.ece"]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle3653800.ece[/url]

[The Khaleesi]

[quote name='Ocean of Notions' post='1723119' date='Mar 18 2009, 14.45']Are you sure about that? I'm not saying you specifically, but people in general seem to treat religions leaders and religious groups quite differently depending what they are. For example, the Dalai Lama isn't exactly friendly towards homosexuality and certain sects of Buddhism. In fact, there's been anti-protests in certain countries before the Dalai Lama visits due to these issues. However, supporting Dalai Lama's plight for a certain theocratic nation is socially accepted amongst most educated groups within Western societies. However, supporting most other theocratic organisations is not viewed as favourably. Hmmm...[/quote]

I have always disliked the Dali lama's attitude towards homosexuality, and I don't think that Tibet should go back to being a theocracy. So, I definitely don't fit that profile.....

Also, what EHK said about any religious leaders of any stripe promoting the non-use of condoms. They are irresponsible and dangerous.

[Lord O' Bones]

[quote name='the Blauer Dragon' post='1723184' date='Mar 17 2009, 19.32']Not to argue against you, but just to clarify one tiny thing (I admit, I'm nitpicking here): [url="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article3653800.ece"]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle3653800.ece[/url][/quote]
Interesting. However, Islam still does not have a "Pope" equivalent.