Your war council

[wakiki]

[quote name='Bolton Bastard' post='1728794' date='Mar 21 2009, 16.57']Just wondering.

Where did the idea come that LF would be good for a war council? An Economic council, sure. Even a political council or spy council. But I don't remember any reference to him knowing anything of military tactics or strategy. Of course please feel free to prove me wrong in this.[/quote]

The only thing I can think of is his idea about Renly's ghost.

Other than that, it seems silly to me, too.

But not as absurd as putting Sweetrobin, Joffrey, Rickon, and Arya on your war council. :)

[dancer]

[size=1]I don't think there is any specific reference to LF being a good war strategist (there could be though), but I think that generally he seems to be quite fickle and cunning. He understands people well and can pre-empt their judgements and actions. I think he would be involved in stuff like the Red Wedding, the sort of stuff that involves cunning and 'out of the box thinking' (god I hate that phrase) rather than sheer military expertise.[/size]

[The_BlauerDragon]

After much careful consideration; I must change my choices.

1. Stark Myrmidon
2. Bolton's Bastard
3. I[i]heart[/i]Severus
4. NightFlyer
5. Tyrion Lannister

Would nobody, in this whole realm, choose to have me on their war council?

[iheartseverus]

[quote name='the Blauer Dragon' post='1728817' date='Mar 21 2009, 18.17']After much careful consideration; I must change my choices.

1. Stark Myrmidon
2. Bolton's Bastard
3. I[i]heart[/i]Severus
4. NightFlyer
5. Tyrion Lannister

Would nobody, in this whole realm, choose to have me on their war council?[/quote]

Thanks! :cheers:

And yes, you can be on my council, especially if you look anything like your avatar. I mean, who'd argue with us or plot behind our backs. All I'd have to do it point at you and smile and [i]whang[/i], the arguments would stop!

[Fireball07]

Of five?

Tywin Lannister- This guy's a genius and possibly the best strategist there is.
Randyll Tarly- I'm assuming Kevan knew what he was talking about it when he called him "the best soldier in the realm".
Euron Crow's Eye- He just pips Davos for the naval battle side of things.
Ned Stark- A good general, talks sense, would bring something to the table.
The Blackfish- A genius is in his own field, I'd say he's worth it.

And I'd have Barristan lead my army from the front, Tywin as the general.

[Bolton Bastard]

Flattered Blauer.

Not sure whatever gave you the idea that we would be good in conducting a war, but flattered.

[Archdaimon]

Hmm ok:

Tyrion Lannister: Master of Coin
One handed Jaime Lannister: Lord commander of the Kingsguard
Doran Martell: Councillor
Renly Baratheon: Public Relations
Varys: Master of Visperes
Eddard Stark: Master of Laws

Hand: I honestly don't know... I would trust few with this position.
They need public appeal, skills in war, and ability to work in the backstabbing environment...
Tywin obvious choice, id just be paranoid he'd dethrone me...
I think in the end, Id give the position to a woman... Daenrys...
Or maybe, I'd be hand, and she'd be my Queen, that would probably work better...


Edit: Ah ok, a war council not a small council... hmm

Then:

Tyrion Lannister
Tywin Lannister
Robb Stark
Robert Baratheon
Randyll Tarly

[Cold Hands-Hot Pie]

First off, anyone who's shown treachery to their allies is out, no Bolton's for me for starters.....
Littlefinger also would probably be great at all the logistics stuff that help win wars, but with what we know of him he can't be trusted, he'd be looking to advance his own agenda, so not on my council......

Tywin's actually 'lost' 2 of the 3 engagements he's been in....was lured into a deception before the Greenfork when the real objective was to relieve Riverrun, was beaten at Battle of the Fords by EDMURE TULLY. Sure he's getting the credit for King's Landing victory, but it should really go to Tyrion and the Tyrell's. He's voted off my council.

We've never seen [u]Randall Tarly[/u] lose in an engagement....he's sort of like a Westeros Patton; All hard ass. I'm not looking to him for strategic advice so much having him on the council so he's an intimate part of the tactical planning and then unleashing him. Tarly's a keeper.

[u]Robb Stark[/u]. He lost his war on the political front. If this is MY war council, he won't be making the kind of decision that cost so dearly. He's my Rommell. He's on my council, also spending a lot of time in the field, directly leading the troops.

[u]Brynden Tully[/u] combines the best traits displayed by Tarly and the Young Wolf. He's deep in all my councils.

Last 2 spots.
[u]Eddard Stark[/u]-- made lots of political mistakes, but again has proven his mettle as a commander.
[u]Tyrion Lannister[/u]-- he'd be my logistics guy, also would probably be a good 'contrarian' to the more testosterone driven guys higher up the list. Has shown he can run an occupied city pretty well, at least for a while.

[Rhaegar_Targaryen]

Great topic ill break this up into those who appear in ASOIAF or those who appear earlier.

Earlier

Aegon the conqueror: the prototypical general, without him there would be no seven kingdoms.
Daemon blackfyre: He was the warrior incarnate and a ****en badass
Daeron 1 "the young dragon": He conquered Dorne at the age of 14...even if he did lose a few thousand men doing it and holding it. Besides the fact it took Dorne two weeks to liberate itself.
Ser Arthur Dayne: need i say more
Bloodraven: He has a thousand eyes and one

In ASOIAF

Robert Baratheon: Six and a half foot of badassery
Tywin Lannister: He almost secured the iron throne for the Lannisters
Eddard Stark: A good guy and by all reports a fantastic general
Barristan Selmy: He has a sense of honour and isnt half bad in a fight
Jaime Lannister Post amputation: After a reality check i think Jaime may rely more on intelligence than brawn.

[the silent speaker]

I'ma go with, in no particular order:
Robb Stark
Davos Seaworth
Mathis Rowan
Daeron II Targaryen
Doran Martell

[Hippolyte]

[size=3][font="Times New Roman"]I would want as my advisors Jaime Lannister, Jon Stark, Stannis Baratheon, Eddard Stark and Rob Stark. I would want Brienne of Tarth as one of my captains too.[/font][/size]

[Bolton Bastard]

[quote name='Cold Hands-Hot Pie' post='1729059' date='Mar 21 2009, 22.20']Tywin's actually 'lost' 2 of the 3 engagements he's been in....was lured into a deception before the Greenfork when the real objective was to relieve Riverrun, was beaten at Battle of the Fords by EDMURE TULLY. Sure he's getting the credit for King's Landing victory, but it should really go to Tyrion and the Tyrell's. He's voted off my council.[/quote]
I feel the need to point out that he is feared for military prowess before the current war. Though his exact performance is pretty average this is generally agreed upon as one event that Robb is amazing, over Tywin is bad.
Also, his tactics may be suspect. But his strategy is generally quiet good. He can see where an army should be, how to position it, what to go for, when to attack, and when to surrender. And many people (though I am not technically one of them) claim that strategy is more important to wars that tactics.

[Rhaegar_Targaryen]

[quote name='Hippolyte' post='1729182' date='Mar 22 2009, 17.34'][size=3][font="Times New Roman"]I would want as my advisors Jaime Lannister, Jon Stark, Stannis Baratheon, Eddard Stark and Rob Stark. I would want Brienne of Tarth as one of my captains too.[/font][/size][/quote]

Stannis? Starks and Jaime are good but Stannis seems far to indecisive...even to the point that his only military victory was outlasting a siege (excluding the wildings). But then Stannis is greater than Brienne :thumbsdown:

[Rhaegar_Targaryen]

[quote name='iheartseverus' post='1728828' date='Mar 22 2009, 09.27']Thanks! :cheers:

And yes, you can be on my council, especially if you look anything like your avatar. I mean, who'd argue with us or plot behind our backs. All I'd have to do it point at you and smile and [i]whang[/i], the arguments would stop![/quote]

Id take you guys. And i would show you the meaning of pain. :pirate: Before the end you guys= :bow:

After all who can resist the power of a Targaryen.

[Horza]

The Worst Team Ever.


[b]Head[/b]: Viserys Targaryen (or Joffrey Baratheon, hard to pick) - divisive, arrogant, dismissive and petulant, will ignore all their advisors suggestions out of hand. This would normally be a good thing given the team below but Vis/Jof is the only person whose own ideas will be worse.

[b]Finances[/b]: Cersei Lannister - piss off the Iron Bank of Braavos, sure why not?
[b]
Recruitment & Propaganda[/b] : Eddison Tollet - I'll leave you to imagine the slogans.

[b]Spymaster[/b]: Ser Harys Swyft - beat out a shortlist of Falyse Stokeworth, Edmure Tully, Eddard Stark and Brienne of Tarth for the reason that while they're naive and guileless he's that and totally incompetent in all facets.

[b]Logistics[/b]: Theon Greyjoy - goes without saying.

[b]Commander in the Field[/b]: Mace Tyrell - a great example of self estimation vastly exceeding actual capability.

[b]Admiral[/b]: Samwell Tarly - Sam might actually be a decent admiral if you placed the Westerosi version of Lord Nelson's Campaigns in his arms and gave him a lot of time but in the shortrun he'll be too busy spewing to command his men, and getting punked by Dareon isn't a promising sign.

[b]Chief Diplomat[/b]: Shitmouth - Was tempted to put Gregor Clegane.

[Rhaegar_Targaryen]

[quote name='Horza' post='1729206' date='Mar 22 2009, 18.55']The Worst Team Ever.


[b]Head[/b]: Viserys Targaryen (or Joffrey Baratheon, hard to pick) - divisive, arrogant, dismissive and petulant, will ignore all their advisors suggestions out of hand. This would normally be a good thing given the team below but Vis/Jof is the only person whose own ideas will be worse.

[b]Finances[/b]: Cersei Lannister - piss off the Iron Bank of Braavos, sure why not?
[b]
Recruitment & Propaganda[/b] : Eddison Tollet - I'll leave you to imagine the slogans.

[b]Spymaster[/b]: Ser Harys Swyft - beat out a shortlist of Falyse Stokeworth, Edmure Tully, Eddard Stark and Brienne of Tarth for the reason that while they're naive and guileless he's that and totally incompetent in all facets.

[b]Logistics[/b]: Theon Greyjoy - goes without saying.

[b]Commander in the Field[/b]: Mace Tyrell - a great example of self estimation vastly exceeding actual capability.

[b]Admiral[/b]: Samwell Tarly - Sam might actually be a decent admiral if you placed the Westerosi version of Lord Nelson's Campaigns in his arms and gave him a lot of time but in the shortrun he'll be too busy spewing to command his men, and getting punked by Dareon isn't a promising sign.

[b]Chief Diplomat[/b]: Shitmouth - Was tempted to put Gregor Clegane.[/quote]

WAR COUNCIL NOT SMALL COUNCIL!!!

but still. Gregor Clegane would be the best Diplomat or even master of the coin.

Diplomat/Banker: "do you know who i am"
Gregor: "A dead man"

[Bolton Bastard]

[quote name='Rhaegar_Targaryen' post='1729190' date='Mar 22 2009, 03.16']Id take you guys. And i would show you the meaning of pain. :pirate: Before the end you guys= :bow:

After all who can resist the power of a Targaryen.[/quote]
Posh, your skin will be as comforting as a warm blanket.

[Bolton Bastard]

[quote name='Rhaegar_Targaryen' post='1729189' date='Mar 22 2009, 03.05']Stannis? Starks and Jaime are good but Stannis seems far to indecisive...even to the point that his only military victory was outlasting a siege (excluding the wildings). But then Stannis is greater than Brienne :thumbsdown:[/quote]
Actually I'd have to say Stannis has a better record than Jaime. As Stannis has been the one going against the odds the entire time. Jaime has done??? Got captured at a battle, then once a battle was already over he diplomatacized (in an amusing manner admittedly) the surrender of a city. He has yet to accomplish any militaristic feats great or small.
And Stannis indecisive nature (which I am still disappointed about) appears to be on grand policy. However once a war or battle is started he commits fully and efficiently. However, I see his weakness at directing a siege during the height of a war (which when in a concentrated force as he had seemed a stupid idea to me anyway). His particular genius is his ability to withstand a siege and that is why you'd bring him along.

Agreed Brienne serves no purpose.

[The Boar of Gore]

[quote name='Bolton Bastard' post='1729228' date='Mar 22 2009, 04.52']Actually I'd have to say Stannis has a better record than Jaime. As Stannis has been the one going against the odds the entire time. Jaime has done??? Got captured at a battle, then once a battle was already over he diplomatacized (in an amusing manner admittedly) the surrender of a city. [b]He has yet to accomplish any militaristic feats great or small[/b].
And Stannis indecisive nature (which I am still disappointed about) appears to be on grand policy. However once a war or battle is started he commits fully and efficiently. However, I see his weakness at directing a siege during the height of a war (which when in a concentrated force as he had seemed a stupid idea to me anyway). His particular genius is his ability to withstand a siege and that is why you'd bring him along.

Agreed Brienne serves no purpose.[/quote]

Be fair. He punked the riverlords at the Golden Tooth and laid siege to Riverrun.

[The Boar of Gore]

[quote name='Bolton Bastard' post='1729188' date='Mar 22 2009, 03.04']I feel the need to point out that he is feared for military prowess before the current war. Though his exact performance is pretty average this is generally agreed upon as one event that Robb is amazing, over Tywin is bad.
Also, his tactics may be suspect. But his strategy is generally quiet good. He can see where an army should be, how to position it, what to go for, when to attack, and when to surrender. And many people (though I am not technically one of them) claim that strategy is more important to wars that tactics.[/quote]

He failed on one occasion at the Red Fork but who's to say he wouldn't have kept going and smashed through had news of Stannis not reached him? He then moved with great speed and without his enemies knowing to exactly the right place and right time to catch Stannis outside King's Landing. I'd say his strategy is more than just 'quite good' but excellent.

Tactically he shows solid skills too: on the Red Fork he makes probing attacks to find a weakness before concentrating his force at one point. He may have lost but not all battles can be sure things. Also by the Green Fork his battle plan, viz, to draw Robb (he didn't know it was actually Bolton) into overreaching himself against Tywin's deliberately weak left and then smashing it against the river with massed heavy cavalry, was tactically pretty sound.

There's also the awesome strategic position he puts himself in at the start of the war: he's the first to mobilize, to seize the initiative; he takes the fight right into enemy territory straight away; he ruthlessly exploits the riverlords' overchivalrous tendency's to rush to the protection of their smallfolk to divide and weaken their forces, then smashes them to pieces at the key strategic point, the Golden Tooth; he likewise seizes the key strategic position of the ruby ford, knowing that prevents Robb and the North from linking up with their beleaguered allies, and only Robb's brilliant move across the river at the Twins combined with Jaime's foolishness stops this from working. Tywin would never have ridden out blind like Jaime did at the Whispering Wood. Robb's brilliance kind of forces Tywin's hand a little in the next stage, making him leave Harrenhal for the West, but Tywin's quick march to the Blackwater and linking up with Mace Tyrell more than makes up for it.

And he also wields a deadly quill.