Dragon sighting at Winterfell?!?

[Lord Godric]

Thanks, this is what I wanted to say also. They stressed Bran the Builder and magic in ASOS in the Storm's End chapters. Whether is it foreshadowing for Bran being one of the dragon riders or a real dragon is yet to be seen but there be magic there. Great thread.

Having just reread the scene where Bran/Summer sees this, I am certain now, more than ever, that all Summer saw was fire.

The entire passage is about the razing of Winterfell, and how Summer and Shaggydog stayed away from the castle for days because of the fire and the smoke. The following paragraph describes in more detail the burning "manrock." This "dragon" was nothing more than a column of flame from when Ramsey razed the castle.

Yes, it is that simple.

[Jojen]

Or maybe the dragon is Summer's three-eyed crow.

[Xcorpyo001]

Or maybe the dragon is Summer's three-eyed crow.

Wow, a serpent-like three-eyed crow that can breath fire. This book is so cool :)!

[AHackeySackOfIceAndFire]

Having just reread the scene where Bran/Summer sees this, I am certain now, more than ever, that all Summer saw was fire.

The entire passage is about the razing of Winterfell, and how Summer and Shaggydog stayed away from the castle for days because of the fire and the smoke. The following paragraph describes in more detail the burning "manrock." This "dragon" was nothing more than a column of flame from when Ramsey razed the castle.

Yes, it is that simple.

yeah, it could be. that's certainly why it was so easy to dismiss the first time i read it. after being awakened to this theory, though, the specific wording of "winged snake," and the way it's distinguished from the fire coming from its mouth, suggests dragon to me.

[Drowned Princess]

Also, a note on Osha saying "We made anough noise to wake a dragon: this is just a throwaway line or an intentional red herring. Jaime says the same thing when he's swordfighting Brienne in the stream and they get caught by the Bloody Mummers. And there ain't no dragons there.

[JayDubya]

Ok, I read everything in this entire thread, oi. I also just re-read book 2, and am in the process of rereading book 3.

• Dany sees a stone dragon rising from a smoking tower in the warlock's mansion
  
• Summer sees a winged serpent breathing fire
  
• Bran is the "winged" wolf
  
• Dany has three dragons
  
• One of the Ironborn has a horn that kills dragons
  
• There need to be three dragons
  
• Dragons can live for thousands of years
  
• Mel is looking for a dragon in Westeros
  
• Winterfell is really, really, really old - previous to the first Other invasion, IIRC.
  
• We don't know if dragons can hibernate
  

Someone asked 'what's the point of a fourth dragon' - the answer: Because the Ironborn's (I forget which one, I haven't read AFFC since it came out) horn will almost certainly be used as such. So one of Dany's dragons dies, and hey, look, there's a dragon living in the vast north, to bring us back to three. Alternatively, if the new dragon is an enemy to Dany's three, perhaps it needs to be destroyed by the horn.

It's also possible that Summer is seeing a vision of the future, written in the smoke and ash. So the dragon is still under Winterfell for the time being.

Personally, I think there's a lot of counter-evidence. So while I would be thrilled if it were true that there's been a dragon sleeping under Winterfell for thousands of years, it's not a slam dunk. But the horn will be used, and no-one will know what it's for until it is used (suprise!)... So what's the backup plan?

I also prefer the idea of the three dragonriders being Dany, Jon and Bran - [Targaryen <--> Targaryen/Stark <--> Stark] Bran as a dragonrider would also be one of the least-symbolic definitions of 'winged wolf'. Also, alluded to by Bran's horse (Dancer) and his special saddle.

Anyways, I'm intrigued. I won't be crestfallen if it was just poetic imagery, but I think there's enough clues to hold together some sort of hypothesis, at least for now.

[Efilnikufesin]

Sorry, first post on here, but a couple of things I thought might add. I know Theon is said to be knocked unconscious when Ramsey burns Winterfell, but was any of his blood spilled as well in the process? He is the son of King Balon. Another point I would like to add is that the three headed dragon is of importance to the Targaryan house and their rise to power, not necessarily anything to do with defeating The Others. Remember the three headed dragon conquered Westeros, they did not defeat The Others. Hope I added to some thought in a good thread, Love speculation :)

[Lord]

I have found no signs in the book to support this Dragon theory, besides that one sentence

When would it have been placed there? Probably it must be after Aegon the Conquerer

for now, I think I will be content with the explanation that it was in fact either the comet that Summer saw, or some mysterious vision.

Of course the other piece of evidence is Osha's one-liner "We made noise enough to wake a dragon".

If there was a dragon placed underneath Winterfell somewhere, it may have been there for a very long time because it would seem to have risen from the First Keep: "They stood in the shadow of the First Keep, or what remained of it. One whole side of the building had torn loose and fallen away. Stone and shattered gargoyles lay strewn across the yard. They fell just where I did" (i.e. just where Bran was told to fly by the crow). "The First Keep had not been used for many hundreds of years, but now it was more of a shell than ever...Yet behind the broken tower still stood, no more broken than before."

Also, there is some pretty big carnage,considering Ramsay's men were just told to "Burn it. Burn it all" (Theon VI). Would simply burning create this type of damage? Bran observes: "There was a shallow steaming lake beneath the Library Tower, and hot water gushing from a crack in its side...Maester Luwin's turret was gone."

I can't see how it could be the comet. The comet has not been mentioned for hundreds of pages at this point (about 400). I'm pretty sure that good ol' "Mormont's Torch" has passed by this stage. Additionally, Summer has seen the comet before and knows that it is a comet. This is from Bran I ACoK, when Bran is 'walking' through Summer in his wolf-dream: "It was dark amongst the trees, but the comet lit his way, and his feet were sure." This is right at the very beginning of ACoK.

Furthermore, Bran asks Old Nan about the comet (in the same chapter) and she replies: "Dragons," she said, lifting her head and sniffing. She was near blind and could not see the comet, yet she claimed she could smell it."It be dragons, boy," she insisted.

However, it's possible that Summer is seeing another heavenly body - the constellation known as the "Ice Dragon". Osha refers to this constellation (Bran V): Bran asks, "Do you know the way north? To the Wall and...and even past?"

Osha replies: "The way's easy. Look for the Ice Dragon, and chase the blue star in the rider's eye." Ygritte also discussed the constellations with Jon in ASoS, but I don't have the reference at the moment, so am not sure how descriptive it is.

Summer's description is interesting: "The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone. Behind the cliffs tall fires were eating up the stars." So the stars are mentioned immediately afterwards - perhaps the winged snake was the constellation in the stars?

[Peter Woolshirt]

The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone. Behind the cliffs tall fires were eating up the stars.

My take: it's the comet. We've been seeing the comet through the entire book, and everybody has a different interpretation of it. Now, in the last chapter, Summer sees the comet, and his magical direwolf senses show him what it really means. And then the comet is obscured behind smoke from the burning castle.

So the comet really is an omen heralding the birth of Dany's dragons. I think we'd collectively figured this out already, but it's nice to have confirmation from the text.

[Todd Sand bastard of AZ]

Wasn't Azor Ahai supposed to come back when a stone dragon is woken? There could have been a stone dragon in the crypts of Winterfell, or in some other secret catacomb. *shrug*

[Silverin]

My take: it's the comet. We've been seeing the comet through the entire book, and everybody has a different interpretation of it. Now, in the last chapter, Summer sees the comet, and his magical direwolf senses show him what it really means. And then the comet is obscured behind smoke from the burning castle.

So the comet really is an omen heralding the birth of Dany's dragons. I think we'd collectively figured this out already, but it's nice to have confirmation from the text.

I think wathever it is it isnt the comet. Summer was outside and the comet was visible during the whole second book, which means he seen it every single night. Why would he now after seing it for a year see it as a winged snake, not to mention feeling thretened by it's presence?

I think the vision of a dragon could be much more possible.

[Errant Bard]

Why would he now after seing it for a year see it as a winged snake, not to mention feeling thretened by it's presence?

. When he blinks, it's gone.

[Faranya]

My problem with this is that according to Summer's POV, the Boltons are still there when he sees the "winged snake" and for some time afterward, and the "roar and crash that made the earth shudder" which I assume to be the wall of the First Keep falling doesn't occur until after he saw the snake either.

[Ser Bullitin The Board]

. . . . I dropped my comet. Oh, but that's ok, because the comet is attached to a string which is attached to Winterfell. . . . .

[Bobbity]

Okay, people who aren't fans of wishful thinking, riddle me this: If the 'dragon' was nothing more than a column of fire, then what in the name of Hodor caused said column of fire. The only thing capable of doing such - that we know of - is Wildfire, and there's not even a hint that the Starks keep at least a hundred barrels of it in their cellars.

There are no explosives, no wildfire, nothing, really. I agree that this is somewhat unlikely, but what in the name of the Greatjon could have caused an eruption of fire, if not a dragon?

My crackpot theory: There are not three, but five dragons in Westeros. Dany's three, the dragon of Winterfell, and an Ice Dragon sealed in the Wall. I know that three is a special number in ASOIAF, but so is five, if you'll think back a little. :P

[Ser Arthyr Dracenstein]

So Dany needs 3 dragons for her three headed dragon, but consensus says she will lose one.

The Winterfell dragon could replace it.

That leaves the Wall dragon, which I will call the ice dragon.

I think the Others will get a dragon, alive or not, and if alive, it will be killed and comes back as a wight.

We don't know if Dany's 'lost' dragon is killed or not.

Let's suppose the Ironborn will capture/tame it with their dragonhorn and Dany's other two dragons kill it. Or maybe Winterfell dragon will...

Okay, I'm losing it. Anybody want to help me sort this out?

[Ser Bullitin The Board]

Sure.

It was a weather balloon filled with swamp gas combined with a high flying jet that was covering Venus.

No conspiracy. At all. Ever.

[Early Earl]

Love the idea!

I'm throwing in this to the discussion.

Martin said Hodor was afraid of the crypts only during AGoT. Maybe because there was a wake dragon underneath? one that was asleep (turned to stone as the eggs) before and left afterwards, aroused by the burning Winterfell? I'm not sure the timeline is right here, especially bc I don't remember when the comet appears (which is for me the scource and reason for all magic).

Against the theory: In the wolf's dream the tower later on, after the "dragon" is gone, crumbled down and the wolf hears people howling. If there had been a dragon enflaming the castle they sure would have left earlier in somewhat of a hurry?

EDIT: Also: The ice dragon - star constellation in combination with the comet is quite a good explanation of what Summer sees here. The comet and its tail being right at the mouth of the star - dragon at this moment. Just to be sure every reader gets the connection comet-dragon by that point... (as has been mentioned above)

[Sun]

Nice thread.

I was intrigued for a moment untilI someone mentioned the comet. I've only just read ACOK a week ago and for the life of me couldn't figure out how that wording could have escaped my attention... until someone mentioned the comet. Aah, that's right. When I first read the passage, I read the "winged snake" as the wolf's reference to the comet. It made sense then, it still makes the most sense now, imho.

[Early Earl]

So Dany needs 3 dragons for her three headed dragon, but consensus says she will lose one.

The Winterfell dragon could replace it.

That leaves the Wall dragon, which I will call the ice dragon.

I think the Others will get a dragon, alive or not, and if alive, it will be killed and comes back as a wight.

We don't know if Dany's 'lost' dragon is killed or not.

Let's suppose the Ironborn will capture/tame it with their dragonhorn and Dany's other two dragons kill it. Or maybe Winterfell dragon will...

Okay, I'm losing it. Anybody want to help me sort this out?

Sure I'll help you:

Dany will keep her three dragons.

Euron, with the help of some yet unknown Targ (maybe that exiled on), will hatch his dragon egg (he did not throw it away!).

Cersei will have Dragonstone burned down to protect her seat in King's Landing, Thus awakening the dragon there, also controlled by Euron, the only on likely to be around.

The Winterfell dragon will be controlled by John and the horn present there.

The wall does not contain ice-dragons but the infamous ice-spiders of course. We'll have an epic godzilla vs. I-don't-know-what-those-monsters-are-called fight, the dragons win (as there will be at least six by then). The end. Epilogue: completely coherent explantaion of any magic involved.