Jump to content

Dragon sighting at Winterfell?!?


LordNedsHead

Recommended Posts

Could the Dragon be a metaphor for Jon Snow?

Could be, but Summer (Bran) has to have seen something - while warging, they see real world and not visions. So my guess it's the comet. The foreshadowing could still be there, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When i read this myself ,i was like this is too much of a mind screw.I did have two ideas concerning what they saw.

1. Summer may have simply been seeing the Comet,the Wolves perception of personifying inanimate objects is a possibility.The Comet may be from there perception and animal. I'm guessing through genetic memory Direwolves know of Dragons and Summer may have been combining the two.To him the Comet may be a Dragon.

2. A Dragon could have been under Winterfell asleep and the burning of WF and all those people may have been an unintentional ritual that woke it.Fire and blood seems to be a recipe for a hatching.

I'm leaning more towards numero 1.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When i read this myself ,i was like this is too much of a mind screw.I did have two ideas concerning what they saw.

1. Summer may have simply been seeing the Comet,the Wolves perception of personifying inanimate objects is a possibility.The Comet may be from there perception and animal. I'm guessing through genetic memory Direwolves know of Dragons and Summer may have been combining the two.To him the Comet may be a Dragon.

2. A Dragon could have been under Winterfell asleep and the burning of WF and all those people may have been an unintentional ritual that woke it.Fire and blood seems to be a recipe for a hatching.

I'm leaning more towards numero 1.

I had just come here to say the same thing. Although, it might foreshadow that a dragon will come to Winterfell. After all, a dragon has come to Winterfell before, when King Jahaerys came with his wife(can't remember her name) came with their dragons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it foreshadows Dany and her dragons coming to WF when she fights the Northmen who refuse to swear fealty to her after Stannis dies. That will be where Jon meets her, and R+L=J is revealed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have gone back and forth on this with my wife, but I really think there was a dragon down there. Why the hell would summer see a 'winged snake' that was not in fact, a 'winged snake'? I call shenanigans on the plumes of smoke theory and the comet theory. smoke and comets don't look like winged snakes...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The comet theory seems the most likely due to the lack of other witnesses to the dragon and the fact that Winterfell greatly predates the coming of the Targaryens.

I think this was a poorly worded bit of poetic phrase. If GRRM had said a "flying serpent", this thread probably wouldn't be 22 pages long and over three years old. I could see how a comet might look like a fiery sky serpent to someone or something that didn't know what a comet was, but there is nothing about the shape of a comet that would indicate wings.

As to whether or not this would cheapen the story, I don't believe it would. It would cheapen Dany's story and that of the Targ family, but I think it would add to the mystery of the relatively muted magical realm of Westeros and the world as a whole.

Edited to correct the spelling of Winterfell. I don't know why I always want to type "Winterfel."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The big problems with the Winterfell dragon theory has always been threefold:

1) Bran doesn't remember seeing a dragon, and never once thinks back on that strange dragon-like vision, which suggests that this "winged serpent" didn't register as anything noteworthy.

2) There's no reason to associate dragons with Winterfell. No Valyrian magic was used in its construction, and theories about Bran the Builder's power over dragons have been purely speculative.

3) There's no evidence, in three subsequent books since the dragon supposedly awoke, that a dragon is living in the north. Nobody's seen it, and nobody's seen strange occurrences that could be associated with a dragon living in the north.

What makes (3) particularly damning is that in A Dance With Dragons we spend a lot of time with people who were actually at the sacking of Winterfell. Ramsay and his goons were there. Theon was there. Wex was hanging on to a heart tree most of the night. You'd think that Wex would tell Manderly if he saw a dragon waking from Winterfell, when he told Manderly so much else.

"I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a red star bleeding in the sky. I still remember red. I see their shadows on the snow, hear the crack of leathern wings, feel their hot breath."

Sounds a bit like one of the Stark kids' wolf dreams... could Aemon have been having dragon dreams through the eyes of the Winterfell dragon? I haven't seen this discussed elsewhere.

Dragons have been to the north before. (That's why Queenscrown received its name, for one.) And dragons will no doubt be involved in the war against the Others in upcoming books. There's no reason to think that this means that there was a dragon under Winterfell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for the comet theory... Summer knows about the comet, it's been there the whole time, if it was the comet he would describe it as something he's familiar with, not something he sees for the first time, no reason to show his teeth to it. Besides it disappears in the blink of an eye, how can a comet disappear?

That being said, if Bran had actually seen a dragon in his wolf-dreams, he'd remember, and he'd talk about that, at least with JoeJen. Plus the fact that no one mentions the dragon in the following books, leads to the sad conclusion it was just a delusional image.

You know it's sad, but true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's an interesting theory, but an unlikely one.

There's just no history of dragonlore in the North. Not even oblique references. None of the stories about the last Long Winter include them. I don't think there were any dragons on the continent, not even wild ones, before the Targaryans brought them.

This gives me hope that when Dany (or someone else, but I hope it's Dany) arrives to fight the Others from dragonback, the Others are suddenly up against something they've never seen before, didn't plan for, and don't now how to deal with. I HOPE.

In an SSM GRRM confirmed that there were dragons in westeros prior to the Targaryens bringing them. Dragons were once a worldwide creature, the Valyrians just used the ones nesting in the volcanoes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Dragons start appearing randomly, i'd quit this series.

I honestly don't know why people would even want this to be true, it would cheapen the books IMO. Dragons suddenly appearing out of no where? No thanks.

I don't think it would cheapen the books, and to be honest I don't have a problem with more dragons. I am not really sure what to think of the dragon-Winterfell scenario, but the foreshadowing of Jon makes sense. If anything is going to be cheapened, I would say a second DwD with DT being the only individual with dragons. Martin is the type of person (because of his early HW days) to 'go big, or go home' and 3 dragons isn't all that impressive in terms of the novel's scale. It would cheapen the story if suddenly 30 dragons popped up and torched the Others (I am not completely convinced they are evil to begin with), but a scenario where a 3-way fight ensues between DT vs. Jon Vs. the others would be marvelous. The final battle certainly would be too big for tv.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Well I've read this series at least 7 to 10 times don't really know how much anymore, it's almost like I'm studying this stuff now, and that includes the Duncan and Aegon tales. There are some really great ideas being thrown around out there and I wouldn't discredit any of them, even though some are more likely than others. In my opinion we as Fans, and Readers of the series, should try to take our own wants out of the mix, and look at the story/series as a whole. we can say I want this to happen... or that shouldn't have happened. or how did he/we not see that coming!, but the fact of the matter is that this is George's story and I wouldn't want it any other way... It's by far the most epic tale I've ever read, and all the characters are my favourite I enjoyed each book as much as the last, no matter how slow some parts are. from beyond the Wall to the shores of Dorne all the way to the great grass sea in the East this is Martins Tale and I Love every word of it. Eddard Starks Sullen Naivety dooming him from the first. Tyrion's Wit, Broken heart and compassion. Dany's not so innocent, innocent's. Jon's precious Honor and Duty. The munipulation of Bran by Bloodraven. Hodors,"Hodors!". Stannis's True belief in Mel. everything has to be the way it is for this story to truly be the masterpiece that it is. to all of you fellow readers Keep up the good work and Keep challenging each others theories they are all Amazing points and thoughts. "Winter Is Coming" and with it comes the last two books so sit back and enjoy the ride... We will know when we Read the last instalments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Very interesting! I have not read all of this thread yet, just the first few pages, but it made me think of this:

During Dany's HotU trip, there was this quote: "Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire..."

I speculated in another thread that the smoking tower was a post-sack Winterfell, but I was thinking more along the lines of a metaphorical dragon (Jon) than an actual dragon, but it tied in with the whole waking a dragon from stone thing. Hmmm...but this is an interesting catch with Summer seeing something dragon-like in the sky.

Could the dragon be Cannibal (or its offspring) from Princess and the Queen?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

I can't believe I never caught this one either! I do believe a dragon is going to be revealed to be native to westeros and will be a cold one. Under winterfell makes sense for the reasons already stated, inside the wall or in the caves beneath Hardhome IMO.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

I think the biggest point against the claim that Summer is just seeing THINGS and misinterpreting them is that Summer has neat little wolf-names for man-things. She smells "hardskin" and "man-claws" The animal has a system of naming things and it's quite accurate.

Why does everyone suddenly discount the otherwise highly praised senses of the Wolf in this one scene? Everywhere else the wolf smells sees and hears better than any human. But because she sees a "winged snake whose roar was flame" she's suddenly a dumb animal who can't accurately describe smoke and fire? Pish-posh. She saw something new and gave it a very accurate description...

Summer named many things in her POV. She used an obvious description of a dragon that is used by cultures over and over and over to describe flying reptiles/dragons/fire-breathers: A winged snake.

Summer obviously saw a Dragon. Summer also knew to be afraid of it as she bared her teeth.

It's just the dumb human in the story and humans reading the words who looked past it and called it something else. Summer told us what it was

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the biggest point against the claim that Summer is just seeing THINGS and misinterpreting them is that Summer has neat little wolf-names for man-things. She smells "hardskin" and "man-claws" The animal has a system of naming things and it's quite accurate.

Why does everyone suddenly discount the otherwise highly praised senses of the Wolf in this one scene? Everywhere else the wolf smells sees and hears better than any human. But because she sees a "winged snake whose roar was flame" she's suddenly a dumb animal who can't accurately describe smoke and fire? Pish-posh. She saw something new and gave it a very accurate description...

Summer named many things in her POV. She used an obvious description of a dragon that is used by cultures over and over and over to describe flying reptiles/dragons/fire-breathers: A winged snake.

Summer obviously saw a Dragon. Summer also knew to be afraid of it as she bared her teeth.

It's just the dumb human in the story and humans reading the words who looked past it and called it something else. Summer told us what it was

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...