Dragon sighting at Winterfell?!?

[pdderek]

Hibernating dragon under WF tinfoil hat wise; could Victarions' horn be used to wake the dragon? Victarion would be like: "Oh, well, it was worth a shot. Fuck a dragon, let's get us a dragon queen." and Jon rides the dragon off into the sunset.

No...Not Dragon-Binder.

But what about the Horn of Joramun? Only the idiots believe the horn knocks down the wall. Everyone else in the books say it's to "Wake Giants"

Giants...or Giant 'things'?

I could totally see the Horn of Joramun waking an Ice Dragon

[pdderek]

still, how come no-one has seen a dragon snacking at all the conveniently located battlefields near the Riverlands?

Why go south when the Wildlings are dying in droves just north?

The Haunted Forest is where it went IMO

[pdderek]

Does anyone else not see wolf dreams quite so literally? No way is there a dragon in Winterfell it just doesnt make sense for a fire breathing heathen to live in perpetual winter. I think the dream is a foreshadowing. As we learned in ADWD Bran's greenseeing is not just limited to the present and this could possibly just be a reflection of the future. If some wights happen to get beyond the wall (or it falls) then there would be great use for a dragon at Winterfell and they are destructive beasts so a little of the castle may burn... There has not been a dragon in the North yet, but this dream is foreshadowing one coming.

Dude...it's not a dream. Brandon is Warging Summer. He is not viewing Summer's dreams.

What Brandon sees is what Summer is seeing.

NO DREAM. Yes Dragon

[pdderek]

I got a strong impression from the show on this matter. In one of the very few wolf dreams of Bran's that are shown there, he runs randomly around, and then looks up for and examines the comet for an extensive amount of time (strong stress was put on it). So I think this is our answer - the dragon is the comet.

Please...do not use the show to discount a book idea. We know better than that now don't we?

The simplest way to show your contention is false is: That Warging session (it's not a dream for Summer, it's real) happened while Starks were still in Winterfell. That is prior to the sack of Winterfell...The timelines are extremely disparate. That Warg session ended with Summer staring at Summer in the pool. The point of it was to show the audience Bran is warging into Summer. He's not imagining it but experiencing it. It also implies either Summer was showing Bran the reflection on purpose or perhaps Bran was asking for some proof it's not a dream and Summer provides it this way...whatever. Later they expand by having the "dream" end with Summer standing over Bran and Bran waking up looking at Summer. It is a way to demonstrate to the audience the increasing bond/warg between Summer and Bran. I can see no way in which this implies Summer saw a comet and called it a Dragon in the books at an event years after the current dream

As for your other claim, that it is more logical to say "it was not a literal dragon, just like swords are not literal iron claws..."

1) The warg is not claiming this. The Warg is riding the thoughts of the animal. Bran is listening to Summer think/feel these thoughts. SUMMER saw "Iron Claws". Brandon would say he saw Swords/Knives/Spears/whatever. We the reader are left to infer that Iron Claws means Iron Hand-Held Weapons. It is an extremely accurate description! Or "Hard Skin" as armor!? That is a perfect animal-name for Armor.

2) Remembering it is Summer naming swords 'Iron Claws' because he does not know 'sword' in his life he then names castles "Piles of Manrock" because he does not know the word Castle...Summer then sees and is threatened by "A flying serpent whose roar was a river of flame"

So to recap, you agree "Wolf Words" translate as:

Manrock=Castle

Hardskin=Armor

Iron Claws=Swords

BUT SOMEHOW you think a "flying serpent whose roar was a river of flame" is a comet...the same comet that's been flying around for over 3 years in the books at this point?

Come on man! You're choosing the hardest answer when the straight forward answer is right in front of you! Summer accurately describes everything always...but because he sees a dragon you can't accept it?

Well, Summer knows what he saw. And he told us. It was a flying serpent breathing fire. That's a fuggin' dragon dude.

[jon316]

Ok a few things i havent seen mentioned is summer is seeing the "dragon" at night because immediately after he sees the winged snake the text say smoke blocked out the stars and the bolton army left immediatelly after setting fire to the castle. It couldve been a dragon that escaped in the cover of night but it may have also just been smoke and fire we will just have to wait and find out

[HodorTargaryenIV]

A few points about this and a tinfoil theory. 

 

Everyone asking how no one in the north saw the dragon: Roose Bolton makes a point, in the show at least, of saying how large and vast the North is (a fact that is repeated constantly). When Drogon went AWOL in slaver's bay (populated densely) weeks went by between sightings. And people were actively keeping their eyes out for him and asking if anyone has seen him. 

 

So, huge, low population density, country + no one is actively looking for a dragon = very possible that the sightings would be so few and far between that they could not get traction. 

 

One of the only other castles from the age of heroes that has fallen in recent memory is Harrenhal. How did it fall? Dragons. No other one has been ruined as badly as Winterfell, which is incredible considering how many wars these people wage. We know George loves being deliberate in his connections and "plot holes", this could be something. 

 

Tinfoil:

If there is an ancient dragon underneath winterfell, it would be very george-like to bring him out and get everyone excited and pumped about it and then kill it. It could survive for the length of one book and then be taken down by the others. Now, let me explain. Bringing out this huge awesome "character" would be similar to Oberyn Martell. Fans are crazy about him and then he is cut down before it can unleash hell on the others or something. The motivation for bringing out a dragon and killing it is that it shows that the books aren't done messing with our heads, it keeps up the idea that no one is safe, but most importantly, most people assume that the Others will wreck westeros until the moment Dany and the Dragons come to burn them by breathing their weakness. This creates drama and makes the readers nervous that maybe Dany and Drags can't save the world, like we all are assuming she will. It keeps people interested because the end of the series isn't set in stone. 

[pdderek]

Dany's dragons have done just fine, in fact thrived, chained and fed in a pit. 

Further, no one said a dragon was chained beneath winterfell. Maybe just hibernating.

[pdderek]

The swords ARE IRON CLAWS. It's just a different name. A wolf-name for a weapon. Summer doesn't know, "Sword" so she says Iron Claw. She also doesn't know "Dragon" so she says "Winged Serpent Spitting Fire"

 What's in a name? A rose by any other name is just as sweet. And so's a goddamn dragon

Really, it's as clear as day people. If you doubt what Summer sees, then you should be ignoring EVERYTHING she sees as she's apparently incapable of seeing things.

[pdderek]

Is there any way that he was seeing the past when we know of dragons visiting winterfel? It could be that he was seeing through the wierwood or that Bloodraven sent him the dream and it was a vison of his past. Note: I'm not saying this is what it was. I'm asking ok?

why the fuck would a direwolf be switching back and forth between observing Winterfell being sacked by the Boltons...AND TRAVELING BACK IN TIME!? 

Seriously, you people will use anything to not believe a dragon flew out of there, huh? Even Time Travel...?

[pdderek]

Yes of course it is a possibility. It has been discussed earlier in this thread as well, and yes Bran's wolf dreams can perhaps merge with greenseeing or BR sending him dreams.

 

But for me it seems to be in the present due to the sentence before mentioning "ash and smoke" and is believed to be in winterfell.

Did Winterfell ever burn according to history?

Torrhen Stark bent the knee to Aegon because of the dragons, so it might very well be.

That's a great thought. Always thought he wanted to avoid the slaughter. Maybe there was a touch more to it!

 

[pdderek]

Also, a note on Osha saying "We made anough noise to wake a dragon: this is just a throwaway line or an intentional red herring. Jaime says the same thing when he's swordfighting Brienne in the stream and they get caught by the Bloody Mummers. And there ain't no dragons there.

There's also not a Dragon Sighting in Jaime's chapter. Apples ain't oranges and often aren't worth comparing.