The NFL Thread

[ZANNI_1276]

Overall it is pretty ‘UNSEXY†draft but there are some really talented players who are going to be more than serviceable starters/fringe pro bowlers, it is a pretty deep draft. It is just kinda crappy to have a pick in the top 10 though because the talent level of the top 10 guys isn’t much different from the guys who will go in the top of the second round for a lot less money.

Just two more days too see how big of a mess the Browns make with their #5 pick. Everyday there is a new rumor about whom they will pick or trade away. After a long history of being a Browns' fan, I am ready to see whomever they pick fall flat on their face and the next few picks to become top starts in the NFL. The only good thing is that the Browns have so many needs, that they should get a lot out of them. Unless they pick Sanchez, then there will an unending battle on the message boards about who should start Sanchez or Quinn and the Browns can restart their forth or fifth rebuilding process since their return.

I am really hoping and I mean HOPING this Sanchez thing is Mangini blowing smoke trying lure someone to trade up. I don't think I can mentally handle another qb controversy in this town. The Cavs have the best team in the league with Championship aspirations and all these idiots want to talk about is Derek Anderson vs Brady. Throw Sanchez in the mix and I will need to up my dose of Prozac and start drinking before I turn any local radio on....

Hopefully Curry drops, we grab him at 5 and start with the roster overhaul if Curry is gone then it becomes interesting, if Crabtree is there I take him, but if he isn’t you got few directions, don’t discount OL. People forget the offense last year was EPICALLY, HISTORICALLY, TRAGICALLY god awful and we didn't have a RB top 100 yards in a game and ran through 4 qb’s. Not scoring a TD in 24 straight quarters was not only an embarrassment but was evidence that the year prior was an anomaly by a bunch of over achievers.

Just PLEASE bring in football players that is all I am asking.

So, according to ESPN, in the Browns-Giants trade talks, the Browns are asking for Kiwanuka and a first-rounder in exchange for Braylon Edwards.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4091378

Does that seem way out of whack to anyone else? A proven bad-ass pass rusher AND a first-round pick, in exchange for an inconsistent "high potential" receiver with the dropsies? I don't blame the Giants for shutting that down.

Well - I suppose you have to ask right?? LOL! It is too much but look, GIANTS need an established WR. They can't wait around for hopefully a rookie to develop - see the Peter King Article today at SI.

Also PHO does not want to trade Boldin in the NFC and that doesn't leave the GIANTS with too many options. Realistically though I think Braylon is going to be a member of the New York SuperGiants come Saturday night. I think you are looking at NY giving up the number 1, a mid round pick, maybe 4 or 5 and maybe a receiver like Hixon or Smith. I think it is going down, makes sense for both parties. NY needs a real number 1 and he won't sign a long term extension in CLE.

Braylon does have a drop problem - but so does TO. I think they have been like 1-2 in the league in drops past couple of years. By the way Braylon did go to the Pro Bowl so we are not talking “potentialâ€, he has already proven himself at the PRO level, unlike any of these guys about to get drafted. Way too much talent and throw in his size, dude is stud and in all honesty I am not happy about seeing him leave but it makes sense in the long run for the organization.

Actually Gold Storm - Edwards has been really proffesional throughout this whole process, I think he understands what is going on and his best bet is to keep his mouth shut and come out looking like the good guy either way.

EDIT: By the way Kiwanuka is good player don't get me wrong, I would love to have him on my team but let's go easy on him being "bad ass" though, he stepped in last year and had 8 sacks, prior to that what did have 6 total in two years? And if I can remember has been injured as well. They do have depth on the DL, just asking for him a number 1 and an additional pick is kinda kooky but leverage is leverage.

[Jaime L]

If the Redskins trade up for Sanchez, I'm going to be furious. Even the rumors linking the Skins to him reflect to me an organization that doesn't get it. At all. The guy's been successful for one year in college, playing with the best talent in the sport. Who cares that he has a better arm than Leinart, or gives a great interview, how does anyone know that this guy is going to be a stud? And even if he turns out to be just that, just would feel like luck. FO's research shows that the only statistically significant variable for predicting NFL success for college QBs is number of starts. The guy has, what, 12 games of experience? How can we say really anything about how this guy will do against live pro competition? He may turn out to be great, but if you're trading up into the top 10 to snag him, you have to know he's going to be great, not think it, know it.

Not to mention that doesn't even get into how absurd it is that a team would actually want to trade up into the top 10. Everyone's trying to trade out of there due to the cap-destroying salaries that you'll have to pay for unproven talent. Not only will you have to pay this guy millions in guarantees but you'll also have to boot another first rounder next year in the process, crippling yourself further. The Redskins have a ton of holes (O-line, DE, LB) how about we start filling those instead of chasing unicorns?

I agree, the Giants would be crazy to take that. I'd say Mitchell and a fifth round pick, maybe.

That'd be a steal for the Giants. Agree that a first and Kiwanuka is a borderline ridiculous offer, but Edwards ain't chopped liver. Put him on an established team with a recent winning tradition and a great O-line and he could flourish. Could be a Randy Moss situation where he's a problem in a bad organization, but a stud in a good one.

Apparently the Giants aren't budging from offering a 2nd and a 5th rounder which just tells me they're not the Redskins.

On the other hand, I support the Giants making all kinds of bad trades. So carry on.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, doesn't seem to happen anymore.

[the silent speaker]

This kind of rumor carries a certain reputation, but assuming for the moment that the impossble is true and this report doesn't come from someone who has forgotten which end does the talking, I can't see it as anything other than the Browns Doran Martelling the Giants.

[Gold Storm]

I am really hoping and I mean HOPING this Sanchez thing is Mangini blowing smoke trying lure someone to trade up. I don't think I can mentally handle another qb controversy in this town. The Cavs have the best team in the league with Championship aspirations and all these idiots want to talk about is Derek Anderson vs Brady. Throw Sanchez in the mix and I will need to up my dose of Prozac and start drinking before I turn any local radio on....

Hopefully Curry drops, we grab him at 5 and start with the roster overhaul if Curry is gone then it becomes interesting, if Crabtree is there I take him, but if he isn’t you got few directions, don’t discount OL. People forget the offense last year was EPICALLY, HISTORICALLY, TRAGICALLY god awful and we didn't have a RB top 100 yards in a game and ran through 4 qb’s. Not scoring a TD in 24 straight quarters was not only an embarrassment but was evidence that the year prior was an anomaly by a bunch of over achievers.

Just PLEASE bring in football players that is all I am asking.

Actually Gold Storm - Edwards has been really proffesional throughout this whole process, I think he understands what is going on and his best bet is to keep his mouth shut and come out looking like the good guy either way.

I also hope that this Sanchez talk is nothing but smoke, but I have a bad feeling that it is not. Magini wants his own guy and Quinn and Anderson do not fit that bill. If the Browns get Curry I would be doing back flips. I cannot remember the last time the Browns drafted potential destroyer at LB. The LB position was very weak last year (the Browns run a 3-4, so they had four bad to ok LB on the field at one time), so they need a lot of help in that position. With Sean Rogers at NT, and an improved LB core the Browns D will look better next year.

If I remember right, Edwards being upset with some of the fans because they were ragging on him because he played for Michigan, he has not sounded happy lately.

I am hopeful. but after the 10 drafts since the return, I just do not know what is going to happen.

[ZANNI_1276]

If the Redskins trade up for Sanchez, I'm going to be furious. Even the rumors linking the Skins to him reflect to me an organization that doesn't get it. At all. The guy's been successful for one year in college, playing with the best talent in the sport. Who cares that he has a better arm than Leinart, or gives a great interview, how does anyone know that this guy is going to be a stud? And even if he turns out to be just that, just would feel like luck.

Not to mention that doesn't even get into how absurd it is that a team would actually want to trade up into the top 10.

I am holding out hope on my end that WAS stays consistent with their own corporate culture and trades up.

I hate to say it but they are perhaps the only team - no offense intended - dumb enough to do it. (See the the Archulletta deal part duex in DeAngelo Hall)

Even better if it keeps my own idiots from even contemplating drafting the guy because some one else is dangling picks in front of their face.

Look Sanchez is getting bagged on here, sort of unjustifiably, he may very well be solid NFL qb, and really, I like him better than Stafford - he doesn't have the arm but he has more of the non-physical tangibles a qb needs to be successful in the league than Stafford does - at least in my opinion.

In all honesty though - I don't think WAS will trade up - they can't be that stupid right? Nor do I think CLE will take him at 5 - that is merely a smoke screen (gulp, I hope), though I think he may be sporting red and gold next year Jamie - just in the west coast Bay area.

[Prince of the North]

Just a little interesting news outta the NFL. The Chiefs traded Tony Gonzales to the Falcons for a 2010 2nd round pick. It seems like the Chiefs gave him away for a pretty low price but, who knows, maybe he really was turning into a big headache for them? Anyway, Matty Ice has to like it and it won't hurt my fantasy keeper team either as one of the backs I'll be keeping is Michael Turner :D

[ZANNI_1276]

Just a little interesting news outta the NFL. The Chiefs traded Tony Gonzales to the Falcons for a 2010 2nd round pick. Matty Ice has to like that!

Great deal for the Falcons, Gonzalez is still one the top 3 or 4 TE. ATL offense is going to be freakishly good and not in a high flying PHO way but in a grind it out, punch you in the mouth way and gobble up a ton of real estate way. Like it a lot and future 2 is fair compensation for a future HOFer.

[Prince of the North]

Great deal for the Falcons, Gonzalez is still one the top 3 or 4 TE. ATL offense is going to be freakishly good and not in a high flying PHO way but in a grind it out, punch you in the mouth way and gobble up a ton of real estate way. Like it a lot and future 2 is fair compensation for a future HOFer.

Absolutely! I like it, too! After all, didn't Gonzo end last season leading all TE's (Witten started out on fire but was injured later)? I think next year's #2 for him is a steal.

[Kalbear]

I think it's a bad choice. Gonzo has maybe 2 good years ahead of him. Does Atlanta think that this is the piece that puts them over the top? Doubtful,especially with their defense the way it is. Instead, they gave up the best value-pick they have in next year's draft for two years of a TE.

I just don't see that as being that great of an idea.

[Space Bandito]

The question is why was this deal made today and not on Draft day? It was for a future pick so it is not like it would have made any changes to their 09 draft plans and it would have allowed them to hear out better offers for a few more days. Maybe they were just sure this was the best they were going to get.

As for the Jets QB situation. I think it just comes down to a coach wanting his "own man". Look at Miami and the QB (Beck) that was drafted before Parcels came into the picture. Has he seen the light of day yet? He will either be traded or cut it seems as well. Coaches like to draft a certain type of player and when they don't feel good about their QB he can rot on that bench it seems. Although I have no clue what is wrong with Brady Quinn. It will be interesting to see if he moves this weekend.

[boiled leather]

I think it's a bad choice. Gonzo has maybe 2 good years ahead of him. Does Atlanta think that this is the piece that puts them over the top? Doubtful,especially with their defense the way it is. Instead, they gave up the best value-pick they have in next year's draft for two years of a TE.

I just don't see that as being that great of an idea.

I love when we spend lots of time talking about Cal Players. go bears!

and a 2nd round pick next year is a fair price for TonyG. This is a big help to ATL.

[Prince of the North]

I think it's a bad choice. Gonzo has maybe 2 good years ahead of him. Does Atlanta think that this is the piece that puts them over the top? Doubtful,especially with their defense the way it is. Instead, they gave up the best value-pick they have in next year's draft for two years of a TE.

I just don't see that as being that great of an idea.

Interesting point but I just think Atlanta feels like they can win now. I guess if you think you can win now you want to add players who will have immediate impact. I can't think of too many rookie TE's who had great impacts right away and they must have felt like they needed a TE :dunno: However, if I were them I'd still look to draft a TE later in this year's draft or next year's to take over for Gonzo. Or do they already have one on their roster?

[sToNED_CAT]

I think it's a bad choice. Gonzo has maybe 2 good years ahead of him. Does Atlanta think that this is the piece that puts them over the top? Doubtful,especially with their defense the way it is. Instead, they gave up the best value-pick they have in next year's draft for two years of a TE.

I just don't see that as being that great of an idea.

Atlanta will have some compensatory mid range picks picks next year for losing Milloy, Brooking and Foxworth (I think) to free agency. So it's not that bad for them.

[Prince of the North]

The question is why was this deal made today and not on Draft day?

I wondered this as well. I thought for sure that, if this trade happened, it would have been on draft day.

As for the Jets QB situation. I think it just comes down to a coach wanting his "own man".

Here you've hit upon perhaps my biggest peeve about the NFL: why can't new head coaches actually work with the personnel on their new team? I mean, are they really that insecure?! It sure seems that way much of the time.

Often, it's not enough to have good, established players already in-house, new head coaches have to have "their" guys no matter what! There are many examples of this but, of course, none are more glaring than the recent Cutler fiasco.

When I see a new coach come in and start jettisoning established guys before they even get a chance seemingly for no other reason than that they aren't one of "their" guys it sort of disappoints me. In my opinion, true "professionals' and "leaders" actually find ways to work with players from the "old" regime but maybe that's just me :dunno:

[sToNED_CAT]

Delhomme just recieved 40 million/5 yr extension. One of the most stupid moves this offseason. Not only does he suck (5 picks against Cardinals) he is also 34. And 20 mil. is guarranteed so they cannot even cut him in next 2-3 years otherwise there would be big cap hit.

[Kalbear]

Wow, is that dumb.

Hey, I know - let's take the guy that basically singlehandedly destroyed our playoff hopes last season (and for a couple of seasons, actually) and give him at least $20 million.

Boy, did I pick the wrong business to go in.

[Space Bandito]

Wow, wonder how Carolina fans feel about that one. That has got to get season ticket owners excited. Sounds like an owner trying to be loyal and reward a player. Just like there is no crying in Baseball there is no Loyalty in Football. This has got to be one of the dumbest business decisions in a while. And Peppers still hasn't signed. I wonder why. :lol:

[Jaime L]

I've never seen a more incompetent playoff performance get rewarded so handsomely. Even if the Panthers like the guy, you would have assumed they could re-sign him on the cheap. Just baffling.

Guess we don't have to worry about a Panthers championship anytime soon.

[grozeng]

When I see a new coach come in and start jettisoning established guys before they even get a chance seemingly for no other reason than that they aren't one of "their" guys it sort of disappoints me. In my opinion, true "professionals' and "leaders" actually find ways to work with players from the "old" regime but maybe that's just me :dunno:

Well Clemens and Ratliff are hardly established guys. Clemens has 3 or 4 starts and Ratliff has none. From what Ryan is saying this isn't an issue of wanting his own guy. He seems to like Clemens. Now on defense he did bring in "his guys" but the Jets did not have "established" people in those positions, so again not that big of a deal. Clemens projected to be very good out of the draft (stronger arm then Cutler). I really hope he gets a chance instead of them trading up for Sanchez or reaching for Freeman.

And wasn't Beck already cut last year? I may be wrong, but I think I read it somewhere last year (I had him in a keeper football league).

[Space Bandito]

miamiherald.com 4/12/09

The Dolphins intend to give Chad Henne much of the offensive work next preseason to help him prepare for his coronation date that is scheduled for 2010, at the latest.

Beck?

''It will be hard to get John work,'' coach Tony Sparano said. ``But there's only three quarterbacks right now. That's all we're carrying. With John, he knows his job first and foremost is to compete with Henne. He gets his reps in practice. He'll get some reps in the preseason games, as well.''

That is assuming Beck gets to the preseason with the Dolphins. He is trade bait as sure as Booker and Satele were because he is miscast in Miami, just as as they were.

Beck was drafted to be Cameron's quarterback of the future. But after failing in his 2007 work with a terrible team, Beck was professionally orphaned when Cameron and Mueller were fired.

The new bosses drafted Henne, their new fair-haired heir to the quarterback job, and that made Beck something of a red-headed stepchild.