Coldhands

[Lady Winter Rose]

CH is Benjen Stark.

Do anyone noticed that Bran means raven in old Irish? What that could mean for Three-eyed crow?

[Maegor Targaryen]

Here's a list of disjointed thoughts I have on Coldhands and the Three-Eyed Crow :) I'm not sure if I should spoiler it or not so I will to be on the safe side. BEWARE: the following does contain spoilers if you haven't read the notes from Martin's convention readings, etc.

1) I think Coldhands is Benjen Stark who was killed while ranging.

2) I think he was never a wight but was resurrected by the Three-Eyed Crow as an ally or assistant in much the same way as Beric Donderrion and Lady Stoneheart were brought back - this explains his autonomy compared to wights.

3) I think the fact that Benjen was dead for awhile in the cold North before being brought back accounts for his black hands (i.e. frostbite would quickly set into the extremities).

4) I think the Three-Eyed Crow is Bryndon Rivers aka Bloodraven who may or may not be "bodiless" now and has survived so long due to being able to warg from creature to creature or maybe even with many creatures at once (may even be warged with Mormont's raven?)

5) I believe the spoiler chapter notes that we've seen concerning Varamyr Six-Skins may lend some support for #4 above.

6) I think the name "Three-Eyed Crow" is a big clue that he is Bloodraven. First, Bloodraven with his one eye warged with a crow or raven would literally make a three-eyed crow. Or, second, a NW brother or "crow" who had the ability to warg and/or perform sorcery could be thought of as "opening their third eye" and, thus, would be a "three-eyed crow".

7) I don't think Coldhands controlled the elk and ravens when he rescued Bran and the other kids from the wights. I think it was the Three-Eyed Crow helping them.

8) I don't believe there are different kinds of magic (i.e. fire, blood, shadow, warging, etc.) I believe there is only "magic" that is manifested, or used, in countless different ways. A possible exception to this is the magic of the Old Gods (i.e. warging, green dreams, etc.) It could be that Bloodraven is/was a very unique individual in that he was Valyrian on his father's side and Blood of the First Men on his mother's side so he could both perform sorcery and Old God magic? Hmm...maybe? :dunno: Also, if this is the case, what could it mean for Jon who "might" have a similar heritage? ;)

9) I think Coldhands couldn't pass through the Black Gate because the Wall, or at least the Black Gate, is warded against sorcery in general and not just so-called "Other" magic.

[\spoiler]

Like I said, highly disjointed, but hopefully some food for thought :)

nice spoiler tags man!

[Maegor Targaryen]

Here's a list of disjointed thoughts I have on Coldhands and the Three-Eyed Crow :) I'm not sure if I should spoiler it or not so I will to be on the safe side. BEWARE: the following does contain spoilers if you haven't read the notes from Martin's convention readings, etc.

1) I think Coldhands is Benjen Stark who was killed while ranging.

2) I think he was never a wight but was resurrected by the Three-Eyed Crow as an ally or assistant in much the same way as Beric Donderrion and Lady Stoneheart were brought back - this explains his autonomy compared to wights.

3) I think the fact that Benjen was dead for awhile in the cold North before being brought back accounts for his black hands (i.e. frostbite would quickly set into the extremities).

4) I think the Three-Eyed Crow is Bryndon Rivers aka Bloodraven who may or may not be "bodiless" now and has survived so long due to being able to warg from creature to creature or maybe even with many creatures at once (may even be warged with Mormont's raven?)

5) I believe the spoiler chapter notes that we've seen concerning Varamyr Six-Skins may lend some support for #4 above.

6) I think the name "Three-Eyed Crow" is a big clue that he is Bloodraven. First, Bloodraven with his one eye warged with a crow or raven would literally make a three-eyed crow. Or, second, a NW brother or "crow" who had the ability to warg and/or perform sorcery could be thought of as "opening their third eye" and, thus, would be a "three-eyed crow".

7) I don't think Coldhands controlled the elk and ravens when he rescued Bran and the other kids from the wights. I think it was the Three-Eyed Crow helping them.

8) I don't believe there are different kinds of magic (i.e. fire, blood, shadow, warging, etc.) I believe there is only "magic" that is manifested, or used, in countless different ways. A possible exception to this is the magic of the Old Gods (i.e. warging, green dreams, etc.) It could be that Bloodraven is/was a very unique individual in that he was Valyrian on his father's side and Blood of the First Men on his mother's side so he could both perform sorcery and Old God magic? Hmm...maybe? :dunno: Also, if this is the case, what could it mean for Jon who "might" have a similar heritage? ;)

9) I think Coldhands couldn't pass through the Black Gate because the Wall, or at least the Black Gate, is warded against sorcery in general and not just so-called "Other" magic.

[\spoiler]

Like I said, highly disjointed, but hopefully some food for thought :)

nice spoiler tags man!

[bastard beyond the wall]

Stonesnake? Please tell more...i had hoped that coldhands was benjen but I was certain he was night's watch

[Whatever]

Coldhands is Stonesnake. Took me 3 re-reads til I noticed that Stonesnake wasn't caught by the Wildlings, and that he disappeared.

Benjen disappeared too. They are both missing ranger so i think ben is more likely. he was a charismatic character and he vanished too soon.. his story is not over

[Aegon VI Blackfyre]

I can't help but think that Coldhands is not Benjen. Don't get me wrong, it would make perfect sense, but I think everyone who read about him at least had the thought that it might be Benjen. Why not just structure the chapters so that he could this storyline in the book by reaching down with his frozen hand and saying: "Hello, I'm Benjen Stark." or something like that. It would have been a perfect cliffhanger, instead were left with one, where we're meant to think that it might be him, but we are given absolutely no evidence.

I think that people sometimes overuse the "too obvious" argument when discussing the series, but in this case I'd like to pull it out.

[Whatever]

I can't help but think that Coldhands is not Benjen. Don't get me wrong, it would make perfect sense, but I think everyone who read about him at least had the thought that it might be Benjen. Why not just structure the chapters so that he could this storyline in the book by reaching down with his frozen hand and saying: "Hello, I'm Benjen Stark." or something like that. It would have been a perfect cliffhanger, instead were left with one, where we're meant to think that it might be him, but we are given absolutely no evidence.

I think that people sometimes overuse the "too obvious" argument when discussing the series, but in this case I'd like to pull it out.

So basically you're saying that it's too obvious so it's false? I get your point :) but i really can't understand people who dislike "likely" things. Don't get me wrong, i don't mean to offed but... i still cannot understand that. You can't have a book full of cliffhangers or unexpected circumstances, too many would be really too much to stand.

BTW, i don't think GRRM'd waste such a charismatic character. Maybe he's not coldhands, but he has still a part to play, for sure. If not, why leaving this question unanswered? Those books are full of complications and i think that GRRM would just close ben's plot during ASOS if he wasn't needed anymore... but he didn't

PS: i don' think that - if BS is CH - he's gonna reveal himself soon in ADWD. (it's not because of the spoiler chapter i've read, i just hace this feeling ;D)

[morbiczer]

PS: i don' think that - if BS is CH - he's gonna reveal himself soon in ADWD.

If Coldhands is Benjen Stark, then we will know it in the first Bran chapter, since Bran must recognize him on sight.

(If there is a Bran chapter in Dance. I try to keep myself as spoiler free as possible, and I know that at one point in time GRRM was not sure whether Bran would make it into the book.)

BTW, I think Benjen Stark is the most likely candidate for Coldhands, but I also think that Bloodraven will appear somehow in the story.

[Targaryen loyalist]

If Coldhands is not Benjen Stark... well, Benjen Stark became a quite useless character for the whole storyline (the only other option is that he is still alive and will come back at the end of the story with some uber-weapon to destroy the Others like Aragorn with the undead army in LOTR).

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

If Coldhands is not Benjen Stark... well, Benjen Stark became a quite useless character for the whole storyline

Why? Granted, a lot of fans inscribe importance to Benjen Stark because of theories like this one. But what is there in the series to suggest that he has a role to play beyond being the catalyst for the great ranging in A Clash of Kings?

[winterqueen]

I go back and forth on if Benjen Stark is or is not Coldhands. I really hope we come across Ben Stark (or what is left of Ben) in the upcoming novels. Benjen is referred to so much in the Wall chapters in all the books, he must have a role to play (or so I hope)

I'm a strong believer that Benjen Stark knows the identity of Jon Snow's mother. Lots of people think Howland Reed is the end all on the mystery of Jon Snow's mother but I think Benjen knows. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Howland Reed knows but I don't think he is the only one. Benjen also grew up with Lyanna at Winterfell. Ben very well could offer a lot of insight on Lyanna before she was taken (or took off with) by Prince Rhaegar.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I go back and forth on if Benjen Stark is or is not Coldhands. I really hope we come across Ben Stark (or what is left of Ben) in the upcoming novels. Benjen is referred to so much in the Wall chapters in all the books, he must have a role to play (or so I hope)

Frequently, though, he's referred to as a source of exposition. If GRRM needs Jon or Bran to know something about the history of the Night's Watch, they can remember Uncle Benjen telling them about the New Gift back in the day. Benjen _does_ have a role to play, and he's already played it.

[Targaryen loyalist]

Frequently, though, he's referred to as a source of exposition. If GRRM needs Jon or Bran to know something about the history of the Night's Watch, they can remember Uncle Benjen telling them about the New Gift back in the day. Benjen _does_ have a role to play, and he's already played it.

True, but I don't see why GRRM should add ANOTHER character (Coldhands) while he should - instead - start to close some storylines in order to conclude the saga in the seven promised books.

Uncle Ben (Subtle reference to Star Wars? :P ) = Coldhands makes perfect sense and avoid another plotline (Coldhands as a brand new character) while closing another one ("where is Ben Stark?" stuff).

[Ealasaid]

I always assumed he was Benjen, saved by the Children like in the story Bran was told by Old Nan (last Ranger left alive, fleeing Others, about to die, Children appear etc)

My theory exactly. I really want the Children to make an appearance.

[Snow's Ghost]

I believe it is a strong possibility that Coldhands is, in fact, Benjen Stark - I cannot fathom his early disappearance being disregarded. As someone already mentioned, Coldhands has not shown his face - a purposeful avoidance of recognition; yet, he is inarguably a protector of Bran... Martin's certainly going to have the Children of the Forest make an entrance...soon, I hope - perhaps there IS a connection here.

[Prince of the North]

nice spoiler tags man!

:laugh: Nice double post, man!

All I can say is that when I originally posted that message back in 2009 I'm "pretty sure" it worked. :)

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Uncle Ben (Subtle reference to Star Wars? :P ) = Coldhands makes perfect sense and avoid another plotline (Coldhands as a brand new character) while closing another one ("where is Ben Stark?" stuff).

No matter who Coldhands is, he isn't introducing a new plotline. He's part of a arc that GRRM's been pushing since Bran originally dreamed of the three-eyed crow in the early part of A Game of Thrones.

And honestly, if we never saw Benjen again I think that would be fine. Nobody would need to ask what happened to Ben Stark, since it would be obvious that he died in the haunted forest somewhere.

[Prince of the North]

No matter who Coldhands is, he isn't introducing a new plotline. He's part of a arc that GRRM's been pushing since Bran originally dreamed of the three-eyed crow in the early part of A Game of Thrones.

And honestly, if we never saw Benjen again I think that would be fine. Nobody would need to ask what happened to Ben Stark, since it would be obvious that he died in the haunted forest somewhere.

I completely agree! Hell, Martin could have meant for the significance of Ben Starks' dissappearance to be that it is what prompts the Old Bear to go beyond the Wall looking for him and not come back. Which, of course, results in the election of a new LC which, ta da!, ends up being none other than Jon Snow. That would be more than enough importance given to Ben Stark and his disappearance right there.

However, I still think Benjen is Coldhands anyway ;)

[Ice-wolf]

Ok well here's my theory:

Ben Stark goes into the woods

The Others kill him and he gets frostbite while he lies dead, explaining the hands (or maybe they turn him into a wight, again explaining the cold hands)

Either his body or his wight is found by the children of the forest (who I think are somehow connected to the three eyed crow)

The children resurrect him (or breath life back into his wight), either ways he's still looks like a wight

They teach him how to kill the Others (i.e. obsidian/dragonglass)

He hides the obsidian by the Fist of the First men to help the NW in their approaching fight with the wights (unable to show himself incase he's mistaken for a wight)

He then saves Sam and sends him to get Bran so Bran can meet the three eyed crow and learn to do something (I don't really know what, maybe to teach him to really master his abilities as a warg so he can become his replacement because he is dying or something, i don't know)

The three eyed crow is a warg who I think has been in contact with Ghost the whole time he was beyond the wall, I think when Ghost went 'hunting' he was really being led off by the three eyed crow to do his bidding

I also think the three eyed crow has been in contact with Mormonts raven quite frequently while beyond the Wall, also, like with Ghost, using him as a means with which to keep Jon Snow safe

I don't think the three eyed crow is a crow in the literal sense, he is an ex-brother of the Nights Watch who is a warg and is working with the children of the forest in some way

And to finish, could this have anything to do with the story Bran was told about that knight of the laughing tree who went to the Isle of Faces? And what connection do the Weirwoods have to the children of the forest? Because I think the weirwoods have a big part to play in this whole affair

I know that's a lot but that's what I think :D

Any opinions?

[Prince of the North]

Ok well here's my theory:

Ben Stark goes into the woods

The Others kill him and he gets frostbite while he lies dead, explaining the hands (or maybe they turn him into a wight, again explaining the cold hands)

Either his body or his wight is found by the children of the forest (who I think are somehow connected to the three eyed crow)

The children resurrect him (or breath life back into his wight), either ways he's still looks like a wight

They teach him how to kill the Others (i.e. obsidian/dragonglass)

He hides the obsidian by the Fist of the First men to help the NW in their approaching fight with the wights (unable to show himself incase he's mistaken for a wight)

He then saves Sam and sends him to get Bran so Bran can meet the three eyed crow and learn to do something (I don't really know what, maybe to teach him to really master his abilities as a warg so he can become his replacement because he is dying or something, i don't know)

The three eyed crow is a warg who I think has been in contact with Ghost the whole time he was beyond the wall, I think when Ghost went 'hunting' he was really being led off by the three eyed crow to do his bidding

I also think the three eyed crow has been in contact with Mormonts raven quite frequently while beyond the Wall, also, like with Ghost, using him as a means with which to keep Jon Snow safe

I don't think the three eyed crow is a crow in the literal sense, he is an ex-brother of the Nights Watch who is a warg and is working with the children of the forest in some way

And to finish, could this have anything to do with the story Bran was told about that knight of the laughing tree who went to the Isle of Faces? And what connection do the Weirwoods have to the children of the forest? Because I think the weirwoods have a big part to play in this whole affair

I know that's a lot but that's what I think :D

Any opinions?

My opinion?

It's an excellent theory because it very much mirrors my own :P

The only difference I have with yours is that I think the Three-Eyed Crow is Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven and that he created Coldhands when he resurrected Benjen Stark in much the same way Beric Donderrion and Lady Stoneheart were resurrected using sorcery. I think TEC created Coldhands as an ally/assistant. Now, the TEC may or may not be "working with" the Children of the Forest and I don't know if they even exist but they don't really play into my theory about the TEC and Coldhands at all. I don't think they are necessary to explain any magic, etc. because we have "clues" that Bloodraven was/is a sorceror and warg in his own right.

I posted this earlier in this thread and I don't know your opinion of spoilers but...

Here's a list of disjointed thoughts I have on Coldhands and the Three-Eyed Crow I'm not sure if I should spoiler it or not so I will to be on the safe side. BEWARE: the following does contain spoilers if you haven't read the notes from Martin's convention readings, etc.

1) I think Coldhands is Benjen Stark who was killed while ranging.

2) I think he was never a wight but was resurrected by the Three-Eyed Crow as an ally or assistant in much the same way as Beric Donderrion and Lady Stoneheart were brought back - this explains his autonomy compared to wights.

3) I think the fact that Benjen was dead for awhile in the cold North before being brought back accounts for his black hands (i.e. frostbite would quickly set into the extremities).

4) I think the Three-Eyed Crow is Bryndon Rivers aka Bloodraven who may or may not be "bodiless" now and has survived so long due to being able to warg from creature to creature or maybe even with many creatures at once (may even be warged with Mormont's raven?)

5) I believe the spoiler chapter notes that we've seen concerning Varamyr Six-Skins may lend some support for #4 above.

6) I think the name "Three-Eyed Crow" is a big clue that he is Bloodraven. First, Bloodraven with his one eye warged with a crow or raven would literally make a three-eyed crow. Or, second, a NW brother or "crow" who had the ability to warg and/or perform sorcery could be thought of as "opening their third eye" and, thus, would be a "three-eyed crow".

7) I don't think Coldhands controlled the elk and ravens when he rescued Bran and the other kids from the wights. I think it was the Three-Eyed Crow helping them.

8) I don't believe there are different kinds of magic (i.e. fire, blood, shadow, warging, etc.) I believe there is only "magic" that is manifested, or used, in countless different ways. A possible exception to this is the magic of the Old Gods (i.e. warging, green dreams, etc.) It could be that Bloodraven is/was a very unique individual in that he was Valyrian on his father's side and Blood of the First Men on his mother's side so he could both perform sorcery and Old God magic? Hmm...maybe? Also, if this is the case, what could it mean for Jon who "might" have a similar heritage?

9) I think Coldhands couldn't pass through the Black Gate because the Wall, or at least the Black Gate, is warded against sorcery in general and not just so-called "Other" magic.

Like I said, highly disjointed, but hopefully some food for thought