NBA

[Relic]

What are you talking about? LBJ numbers squew that 49% a bit because he was a stud last night.

yeah Mo shot like shit, especially from downtown where he was 2-8. West didn't have a good game offensively either, going 3-8 from for 3's. Z was 5-11. Their bench took a total of 7 shots.

Blaming Mo's shooting woes on the long lay over is a pretty cheap cop out. I'm sure he isnt saying that. How many of his 3's were quality shots?

they don't really cough it up too much but when you shoot like that it equates into bad posesions.

and you are goin to blame those bad possessions on 10 days rest? Ok...

[aeu]

Yes, to be blunt. They played haven't played a game in 2 weeks. It showed when they were ice cold out of the gate.

How were they ice cold out of the gate? They dominated the first quarter and went up by 15 easily.

Very, very good game, obviously. Too many clutch shots to count by both teams but in the end, Hedo and Rashard Lewis made virtually every play to close the game. They -almost definitely- cannot do this consistently, but it is possible that they do it a couple more times, which may be all they need.

Cleaveland has a very good team, but they don't have a lot of flexibility in their roster. I don't know what kinda adjustments they can make. Chuck kept saying Z / Joe Smith cannot match up with Dwight and Cavs should go small, but how? Can Varejo keep up with Dwight down low? Would you want Lebron on 4, trying to guard Lewis in the post? Not to mention you need another 3 in the lineup (Wally? Ouch..Is Sasha still alive?) guarding Hedo?

Having said that, maybe they don't need adjustments. Maybe all they need to do is foul Dwight every once in a while instead of letting him go by every time. As a viewer, I would hate to see that, but it seems to be the best post defense Cavs have.

[Slurktan]

Relic,

I'm curious but do you actually believe players that are currently active, and most especially those that are in fact coming off a long layoff, when they say that the layoff doesn't affect them? Players can't just come out and say "Yeah I shot like shit because I haven't been in a game situation in two weeks, basically longer than at any point since the start of the season." Because then they will get absolutely crucified by the media.

[Relic]

Relic,

I'm curious but do you actually believe players that are currently active, and most especially those that are in fact coming off a long layoff, when they say that the layoff doesn't affect them? Players can't just come out and say "Yeah I shot like shit because I haven't been in a game situation in two weeks, basically longer than at any point since the start of the season." Because then they will get absolutely crucified by the media.

I don't think they themselves believe that. Yeah you cant simulate a real playoff game type situation, but its not like they sit on their asses for 10 days without doing shit. They hoist up their 300 jumpers a day or whatnot, run drills, play skirmishes, work out, stretch, eat their chef prepared protein diets, watch film, etc.

But ok, lets say that they are effected by the layoff. Wouldn't that be most visible in the first half? in this game they were all over the Magic at the break.

Anyway, you know how people love making Jordan/Lebron comparisons? Something in last night's game really stood out to me. Jordan would conserve energy and expend it in spurts, sort of like saving his upper cut for a knockout. Lebron could barely move at the end of the game due to cramps, he seemed to play at the same speed all game long. Struck me as interesting, especially when he missed some shots down the line.

[ZANNI_1276]

yeah Mo shot like shit, especially from downtown where he was 2-8. West didn't have a good game offensively either, going 3-8 from for 3's. Z was 5-11. Their bench took a total of 7 shots.

Blaming Mo's shooting woes on the long lay over is a pretty cheap cop out. I'm sure he isnt saying that. How many of his 3's were quality shots?

and you are goin to blame those bad possessions on 10 days rest? Ok..

Take away Mo's hail mary and he was 1-7 from 3pt - got to shoot better, they need his outside game. He did have some good looks on the threes too but they didn't fall. Yeah the numbers are squewed because LBJ shot 66% from the field himself with the lion share of the shots.

No west didn't have a good game, he over dribbled at the top of the key and on the wing constantly and his ball movement just plain old sucked, he had 3 or 4 terrible possesions alone and in order for him to be really effective he has to penetrate which he really didn't do. I hate watching the 24 second clock expire at the pro level, it is just a pet peave with any game I am watching.

Z started out strong but in the second half couldn't connect on anything particularly down the stretch. I think the bad possesions can be partly be blamed on the lay off but look, they were just bad possesions in the third quarter/begining of the fourth, blame it on what you want but it is what is, if you don't think they looked a little rusty, cool dude, but i most certainly did. So onto game 2 now. Let's see how both teams come out.

[Relic]

blame it on what you want but it is what is, if you don't think they looked a little rusty cool dude, but i most certainly did. So onto game 2 now. Let's see how both teams come out.

i just think you have to credit what the magic did a little more.

[Jaime L]

Yeah, I agree with Relic on this one. I'm not an Orlando fan at all...infact I mildly dislike 'em...but I saw enough out of them in game 1 to counter any criticism I've made. They weren't intimidated to play in Cleveland, even though the Cavs had been 43-2 at home this year; they weren't intimidated by Lebron, even though he had a vintage performance going off for 49, making spectacular rejections of Dwight Howard (even causing him to foul out of the game [on a questionable foul call no less]) and shooting 20 for 30. They played physical, intense and didn't panic when they got down by 16..or even late in the game where the Cavs kept matching 'em shot for shot. Those were all huge questionmarks for me coming into this series, and they answered each in turn, like going down a checklist. Gotta say, I was impressed. It's possible Cleveland didn't play up to their full potential due to rust...but to me the primary reason the Magic won was they flat took the game from the Cavs. Cavs did their shock and awe thing as they've done throughout the playoffs...just think they weren't counting on the Magic to fight back like that. They got lax, believing their ace in the hole, Lebron would find a way to answer every last score. The way they were just standing around on Cavs offensive possessions reflected to me, not a team that was rusty, but a team that got lazy.

As for clutchness, Rashard Lewis seemed to answer that question using his size and range to create a constant mismatch on the perimeter in the second half. The announcers kept emphasizing how the Cavs pursued an unorthodox strategy by putting Lebron on Rafer Alston (Not the Magic's #1 option on offense), primarily so he could roam as a help defender everywhere else. And it seemed to give the Magic fits early on, but give credit Van Gundy for adjusting and finding a way toe exploit the biggest advantage he has: perimeter guys with size that can shoot the 3 (ie: Lewis, Turkoglu and Pietrus) when the help defense collapses on Howard. Depending on how consistent Rashard Lewis is in this series, might make sense to put Lebron on him to nullify the athletic advantage he has over the Joe Smiths of the world. Lewis, to me, is now the X Factor. The one guy that'll decide if the Magic can compete all series long.

All this being said, there's no amount of money in the world that could convince me to pick the Magic in game 2.

BTW: On the Cavs final possession, does anyone else think the only way the Magic were able to stop Force-Of-Nature Lebron was Pietrus falling down? I definitely do. If he doesn't fall down Lebron goes right past him...but you have this huge guy sprawled out on the court..and you could tell Lebron had to pause (giving time for the help defense to arrive) and forcing him to kick it out to West who missed the 3.

[ZANNI_1276]

Anyway, you know how people love making Jordan/Lebron comparisons? Something in last night's game really stood out to me. Jordan would conserve energy and expend it in spurts, sort of like saving his upper cut for a knockout. Lebron could barely move at the end of the game due to cramps, he seemed to play at the same speed all game long. Struck me as interesting, especially when he missed some shots down the line.

You won't hear me comparing them. Totally different players. The way each of them attack defenses is different, thier style is different. Physically they are different. Closest comparison you will hear from me is the teams they both play/ed on have similar make ups to a certain extent from a mentallity and roles. Not sure about the conserving energy thing but if you say so. Both are dominate and I believe we will never see another MJ ever again just as I believe we will never see another LBJ ever again.

So he cramped up? Maybe he didn't get enough pottasium/eat enough bananas - who knows.(don't read into it, bananas stop cramps because of high potsassium) You can't argue that he didn't put enough effort in can you? Dude had a monster game...

[Relic]

Not sure about the conserving energy thing but if you say so.

So he cramped up? Maybe he didn't get enough pottasium/eat enough bananas - who knows.(don't read into it, bananas stop cramps because of high potsassium) You can't argue that he didn't put enough effort in can you? Dude had a monster game...

Jordan was famous for being able to use bursts of energy in certain spots.

I know the high levels of potassium in bananas, what is there to read into? Im confused. I'm not taking away from anythin lebron did.

Maybe i need to stop taking this flue med. Making me post way too much today.

[Lucky Pierre]

Fair Weather Magic Fan reporting for duty!

:D

[ZANNI_1276]

Jordan was famous for being able to use bursts of energy in certain spots.

I know the high levels of potassium in bananas, what is there to read into? Im confused. I'm not taking away from anythin lebron did.

Maybe i need to stop taking this flue med. Making me post way too much today.

I know what you are saying - i do remember watching his airness, he did have the roll of nickles in his fist for the last parting shot.

The one guy I can't blame is LBJ. Bottom line is they need to shore up the perimeter defense and not play so sloppy/spectator like and get the ball moving and space the floor on offense, when they did that yesterday Orlando couldn't stay on the court with them. We'll see. I think game 2 is going to be a different type of game start to finish.

EDIT: I have given credit to the Magic - they are a hell of a club, i just think last night was a lot of the magic playing well but the CAVS making some mental mistakes on DEF and poor shooting/possesions to close out the game, not including LBJ, from everyone else.

[Jaime L]

The one guy I can't blame is LBJ. Bottom line is they need to shore up the perimeter defense and not play so sloppy/spectator like and get the ball moving and space the floor on offense, when they did that yesterday Orlando couldn't stay on the court with them.

Yeah, I blame the other Cavs players for Lebron being tired at the end of the game. They seemed to expect him to do everything for them on offense on every possession. He'd also committed so much energy to playing effective help defense Even Superman needs possessions where he's nothing more than a decoy or just a static off the ball defender to make sure he has something left during crunchtime.

[Minaku]

Hopefully in the next game LeBron will see some more help from his team instead of the whole help-me-pass-to-LeBron stuff we saw last night. Who was it that said LeBron is most effective when he has high assists? Can't remember. But LBJ has the ability to see the openings and find teammates. His teammates need to calm down and focus and get the damn ball into the net... though I have to say, it's entertaining to me to watch LBJ bring it into the paint, get swarmed by guys, and have the result be everyone on the floor.

You could definitely tell LBJ was tired in the fourth quarter after he missed two consecutive free throws and they bounced off the front of the rim. How often does he do that?

Meanwhile, stellar play from the Magic last night. Did Turk have pizza again? Maybe the entire team should have pizza.

[ZANNI_1276]

Hopefully in the next game LeBron will see some more help from his team instead of the whole help-me-pass-to-LeBron stuff we saw last night. Who was it that said LeBron is most effective when he has high assists? Can't remember. But LBJ has the ability to see the openings and find teammates. His teammates need to calm down and focus and get the damn ball into the net... though I have to say, it's entertaining to me to watch LBJ bring it into the paint, get swarmed by guys, and have the result be everyone on the floor.

You could definitely tell LBJ was tired in the fourth quarter after he missed two consecutive free throws and they bounced off the front of the rim. How often does he do that?

Meanwhile, stellar play from the Magic last night. Did Turk have pizza again? Maybe the entire team should have pizza.

- lots of people have been saying the "he is more effective once he starts dishing because that means he is picking you apart doing whatever he wants", most recently it was Kenny Smith last night.

-Hell yeah he was tired, he was carrying 8 guys on his back for three quarters while they all grabbed a front row seat and ate some popcorn while he was earning his game check.

-If Jim Brown played basketball that is what it would look like if he took to the lane, bodies flying. He has uncanny body control and strength in traffic, i mean he has these guys swarming him, trying to hang on, TRYING not to let him get a shot off and he does and most the time gets the and 1. He is fun to watch all round

- Yeah, dude ate his pizza or at least i read he did. I wasn't aware that these guys eat all this junk food pregame and I guess some reporter asked hedo about it and he joked about his physique and couldn't you tell. He is a pretty funny dude and a hell of a ball player.

[Relic]

You could definitely tell LBJ was tired in the fourth quarter after he missed two consecutive free throws and they bounced off the front of the rim. How often does he do that?

he's missed some clutch free throws at the end of games before

[Minaku]

- lots of people have been saying the "he is more effective once he starts dishing because that means he is picking you apart doing whatever he wants", most recently it was Kenny Smith last night.

-Hell yeah he was tired, he was carrying 8 guys on his back for three quarters while they all grabbed a front row seat and ate some popcorn while he was earning his game check.

-If Jim Brown played basketball that is what it would look like if he took to the lane, bodies flying. He has uncanny body control and strength in traffic, i mean he has these guys swarming him, trying to hang on, TRYING not to let him get a shot off and he does and most the time gets the and 1. He is fun to watch all round

- Yeah, dude ate his pizza or at least i read he did. I wasn't aware that these guys eat all this junk food pregame and I guess some reporter asked hedo about it and he joked about his physique and couldn't you tell. He is a pretty funny dude and a hell of a ball player.

Yes. Once LeBron is not playing the Ace game (by necessity last night, since his team just laid down around him) the Magic will have some more problems. The Cavs need to keep up on the perimeter defense and shut down the ones who don't have the ability to take it to the rim.

I'm falling for Turkoglu. Sharpshooters are my weakness, which explains why I like the Magic. Too bad his ability to take it inside is ah, somewhat inferior. But those two alley-oops to Dwight Howard last night were fantastic. Having pizza also helps. Sir Charles made fun of him for being a bit jiggly after game 7 with the Celtics.

Edit:

Relic -

Yeah, but missing and adjusting as opposed to missing and missing... you know he was off. He bounced it off the front of the rim twice, that's not something a player like LeBron should do.

[ZANNI_1276]

he's missed some clutch free throws at the end of games before

Sure he has - lots of people have Pierce, Arenas just to name a few off the top of my head but I have seen him ice more games at the line than I can remember him rim shotting though...He isn't perfect, no such thing as the perfect player.

[Relic]

Sure he has - lots of people have Pierce, Arenas just to name a few off the top of my head but I have seen him ice more games at the line than I can remember him rim shotting though...He isn't perfect, no such thing as the perfect player.

Lebron is a 75% ft shooter. His clutch free throw shooting percentage is 66%. Clutch being defined as under 2 minutes left with neither team ahead by over 3 points. Im pretty sure i remember lebron developing Tim Duncan disease where he suddenly and inexplicably started missing fts in late game situations.

anyway check out this site for fun hoops shit http://www.82games.com/random23.htm

mina, i had no idea you were a b-ball fan.

edit - oh crap i didnt notice that the data sample for that FT thing was only until 06. Oh well. Nevermind.

[Jaime L]

Lebron is a 75% ft shooter. His clutch free throw shooting percentage is 66%. Clutch being defined as under 2 minutes left with neither team ahead by over 3 points. Im pretty sure i remember lebron developing Tim Duncan disease where he suddenly and inexplicably started missing fts in late game situations.

anyway check out this site for fun hoops shit http://www.82games.com/random23.htm

Yeah, though I wonder if thee sample size is too small to tell. I've never thought of LeBron as a good FT shooter. I'm surprised his overall percentage is 75%, but hey, those numbers are what they are so maybe there's something there.

I will say, I still think of him as one of the league's clutch guys. Maybe not on the level of Kobe, but who is? Remember too many times where he ripped the Wizards hearts' out on an incredibly difficult last second shot. Also last night, on the final possession he did everything I could do: drove the lane in control, got deterred by the falling Pietrus...the triple team arrived, still made the smart outlet pass to the relatively open Williams, who mssed. Some would say he should've still taken the shot, but I didn't see him getting a high percentage one based on how the play evolved. Anyway there were only Magic in the area on the rebound but somehow he managed to get in there and force a jump ball, which he won (not surprising), but then made an improbably perfect back-tap to (I think to Williams?) who actually got a decent shot off that just didn't go in. I mean the guy did everything one person could have possibly done under unique circumstances. Those missed free throws hurt a lot...but I still think he did more difficult things in the fourth quarter to help his team win than Kobe did in his game 1. He just didn't get the same help.

[ZANNI_1276]

Lebron is a 75% ft shooter. His clutch free throw shooting percentage is 66%. Clutch being defined as under 2 minutes left with neither team ahead by over 3 points. Im pretty sure i remember lebron developing Tim Duncan disease where he suddenly and inexplicably started missing fts in late game situations.

anyway check out this site for fun hoops shit http://www.82games.com/random23.htm

mina, i had no idea you were a b-ball fan.

First - thanks for the link, if you can believe it I have never been to the site - cool and thanks.

Second and it probably is just me because the link you gave me may have been dated, not sure - Sam Cassel was the current leader I think and we both know his situation - going to be a good coach though, but I did navigate a bit and went to the 08-09 clutch per 48 minutes and they have him listed at 85% FT in the clutch and there are guys at 90+% percent but I also think LBJ has one of the higher attempts though at 20 I think.

here is the link - like i said it is probably me:

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

EDIT: they also have him listed in the top 20 in rebounding, top 15 in assists, top 8 in steals and the number 2 scorer behind Kobe. Sounds pretty clutch to me.

I will be the first one to tell you that one of my biggest beefs with his game up until this year was his free throw shooting - man it would really piss me off because of his frequency at the line he was marginal at best and the CAVS were leaving a bunch of points at the line. But I give the guy credit because a couple of years ago he wasn't even at 70%! But this year I think he was at like 78%(?) I think, somewhere along those lines. So in all honesty judging him by what he did a few years ago or even really last year though I understand where you are coming from, I just don't think its quite fair. He has worked pretty hard in the offseason on both his jumpshot and free throws this year - vastly improving on both on the positive % wise - so I hear ya but for a 24 year old man just scratching the surface of his prime I would like to think those numbers will be going up - even next year by a couple of % points. Probably by the end of his career I can see him at 80-85% FT consistently.

EDIT: No prob Rel - I just saw some guys on the list who are currently in the boneyard or holding the NBA "Will Work For Food" sign.