FMLA: Once again America is rather behind the times

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

In Sweden, we solve it by having maternity leave. New mothers stay home and tend to their babies, and have the breastfeeding etc. sorted out before coming back to work.

I admit, I don't really know how long people breast feed for, but, IMHO, if a woman wants to come back to work while she's still breastfeeding, it's against everyone's best interest to just tell her she has to stay home. Not very enlightened.

IMO the US's 6-week maternity leave is barbaric, looking at it from up here in the decadent socialist constitutional monarchy of Canuckistan.

Personally, I feel that the 12 weeks unpaid leave per FMLA should be good enough, and if you've got a genuine "career" and not just a "job", 12 weeks is a significant time out.

The problem is that 12 weeks is UNPAID. I don't know a single person who could go 12 weeks without some sort of income. There really should be some sort of paid leave.

[The Iceman of the North]

The problem is that 12 weeks is UNPAID. I don't know a single person who could go 12 weeks without some sort of income. There really should be some sort of paid leave.

I don't see why this should be a problem. It's not like there is much extra costs just by having a baby (provided you got a good health insurance and don't bother about clothing and stuff).

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

With little public debate, the United States has chosen a radically different approach to maternity leave than the rest of the developed world. The United States and Australia are the only industrialized countries that don't provide paid leave for new mothers nationally, though there are exceptions in some U.S. states

Australian mothers have it better, however, with one year of job-protected leave. The U.S. Family and Medical Leave Act provides for 12 weeks of job-protected leave, but it only covers those who work for larger companies.

link

The standard for the European Union (EU) or the OECD countries goes well beyond the ILO convention. Among the 29 OECD countries, by and large the most advanced industrialized countries, the average childbirth-related leave (maternity, paternity, and parental leaves) including both paid and unpaid, is almost one and a half years, with additional time provided in some countries for leaves to take care of an ill child. The average duration of the paid leave is 36 weeks, typically including 14-16 weeks of paid maternity leave, supplemented by a paid parental or child rearing leave. In some cases both the pre-and post-birth "maternity" component are mandatory, while in others the two can be added together and used after childbirth.

link

Once a toothless outfit, the European Parliament has acquired more power over the ... legislation affecting the lives of 500 million EU nationals. The outgoing assembly passed 1,355 laws ... set an EU-wide standard on an 18-week maternity leave. Copyright 2009

link

So it looks like anywhere from 18 to 36 weeks in Europe.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

I don't see why this should be a problem. It's not like there is much extra costs just by having a baby (provided you got a good health insurance and don't bother about clothing and stuff).

True. no need for diapers either, or paying the rent or electricity or heating cost. (and I know you were joking/making fun of the "good insurance" argument)

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

The problem is that 12 weeks is UNPAID. I don't know a single person who could go 12 weeks without some sort of income. There really should be some sort of paid leave.

Who should have to pay for it?

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Who should have to pay for it?

A combination of the company and the government.

Most other countries manage it, we should be able to as well.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

A combination of the company and the government.

So....me, in other words. It is my responsibility to ensure that you have a comfortable 9 month vacation because you made the choice to get pregnant. And I should have to pay for this every time you choose to do so. Thanks, but no thanks.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

It's called "savings".

You should have 8 months to a year's worth of expenses in liquid form (cash in the bank) at all times.

In case you say you don't know anyone like this - Isakaral Pust. Me. So you know two people, minimum.

Yes, and so many Americans have this. :rolleyes:

Very few people do, and you know this. Just because YOU are one of the few who don't need it, does not meant that the other 97% of Americans don't need it either.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

So....me, in other words. It is my responsibility to ensure that you have a comfortable 9 month vacation because you made the choice to get pregnant. And I should have to pay for this every time you choose to do so. Thanks, but no thanks.

Plus I want you personally to pay all the medical expenses.

[Minaku]

This is assuming that you have a job with actual maternity leave. Because I am an independent contractor where I work, and I will also be working for the university I attend, I don't get any sort of maternity leave.

Them's the breaks! And that's why I only have four weeks. My work ethic cannot stomach any more. Maybe for the independent work I could eke out two months without working, but my classes at school, both the ones I take and the ones I teach, are not negotiable.

Some people might suggest I drop out of school to take care of my child. My answer is no way.

Edit: Even though my husband makes more than enough money, our living expenses are separate. I have savings, but I never dip into it, so my return to both work and school even at a reduced amount of pay cannot be put off.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Very few people do, and you know this. Just because YOU are one of the few who don't need it, does not meant that the other 97% of Americans don't need it either.

Perhaps they should consider this before choosing to have children.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Perhaps they should consider this before choosing to have children.

Why not just make it a new law: You cannont have kids unless you have a certain amount of money in the bank....like $15,000. If you get pregnant and don't have that much money, you will be forced to abort. And you will have to pay for the abortion youreslf.

Would that please you?

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Sweden has 16 months of paid leave. Bulgaria has 2 years, of which the first is paid 100%. Lithuania has almost 2 years, with the first being paid 100%.

there's a really cool table on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave

Just adding Filippa's cool chart.

[Minaku]

I just want to know: what are the more liberal countries' policies on self-employed people like me? Do they also get months off paid for by the state? Or do they have to work like I do?

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

There's a guy named Dave Ramsey whose work you may wish to become familiar with. Anyone can save. Everyone should have adequate savings. Dave isn't my personal favorite, but he has helped a lot of people dig themselves out of debt and become financially secure.

Just because a lot of people whom you know are on the financial margins doesn't mean YOU have to be as well.

While I may only have a couple months of savings, I am no where near the margins, but thank you for your concern.

[denstorebog]

So....me, in other words. It is my responsibility to ensure that you have a comfortable 9 month vacation because you made the choice to get pregnant. And I should have to pay for this every time you choose to do so. Thanks, but no thanks.

So many things wrong with this. First of all, who says she *made* the choice? Secondly, you're making it sound like a personal insult, but paying for each other through taxes is a pretty damn viable system, and you'd probably be surprised how many things are been supplied for you by others no matter which part of the world you live in. Thirdly, if it turns out that a certain segment of the population simply can't afford going on unpaid leave, a segment that Lany believes she represents, what alternative do you suggest? Don't have children?

I have no real idea how long maternity leave should reasonably be, paid or unpaid, but the old 'I'm not getting anything out of that so screw you' opinion is just so... uninformed.

You should have 8 months to a year's worth of expenses in liquid form (cash in the bank) at all times.

Yeah, that sounds wonderful.

Anyone can save. Everyone should have adequate savings.

Probably the most absurd thing I've read on this board in my 8 or so years, if you really mean that literally. Everyone should have a jacuzzi too, for that special bubbly comfort.

[mouse]

I am American; my husband grew up in Germany, and all his family still lives in Germany. (I am also expecting.) My husband had to have a special conversation with his family to "break the news" that I would be going back to work after three months of leave. They were positively appalled.

In Germany, the woman must leave work about 4 or 6 weeks prior to her due date; then there's a year of partially-paid leave; and your employer must keep your position open if the mother chooses to continue to stay home (unpaid) for something like another two years.

[potsherds]

I didn't realize before that the U.S. offered NO paid maternity or paternity leave. Heh. Yet another area where the U.S. is behind the times and barbaric. I'm so shocked.

[denstorebog]

In Germany, the woman must leave work about 4 or 6 weeks prior to her due date; then there's a year of partially-paid leave; and your employer must keep your position open if the mother chooses to continue to stay home (unpaid) for something like another two years.

And believe it or not, a lot of European countries are only now starting to figure out that maybe it's not a good idea to automatically assume that it's the mother doing this. I assume the word 'maternity' leave should is rubbing some people the wrong way in the States too.

[Filippa Eilhart]

I just want to know: what are the more liberal countries' policies on self-employed people like me? Do they also get months off paid for by the state?

In Poland you do get paid time off (I'm not sure about the amount though) but you must have paid your nsurance for at least 6 months prior topregnancy.