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FMLA: Once again America is rather behind the times


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So you don't want to pay for anything? Roads, schools, bridges...shit like that?

A common misconception, I don't mind paying for all of that. I mind having my money taken at gunpoint and spent on it whether I want it, need it, use it, or not. I prefer private contract to coercion.

*Attn Shryke/whoever else - Start a new thread to continue this discussion, if it won't be directly related to paid maternity leave. I don't want to threadjack*

The only anarchists I met were pimply emo virgins and I couldn't take them seriously

I don't either, and I doubt if they are actually anarchists so much as kids who draw this on their trapper-keeper and don't like their dad. If you can't quote me some Bakunin, Mises, Rothbard, or Hayek, gtfo.

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Yeah, that sounds wonderful.

Probably the most absurd thing I've read on this board in my 8 or so years, if you really mean that literally. Everyone should have a jacuzzi too, for that special bubbly comfort.

If you can't afofrd to save a couple thousand bucks in preparation for having a kid, then you can't afford to raise a kid.

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If you can't afofrd to save a couple thousand bucks in preparation for having a kid, then you can't afford to raise a kid.

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Unfortunately, people have kids anyway. It's not exactly hard. Or, often, voluntary.

Not every child is planned out like fucking D-Day. Your gonna need to do something about the un-saved-for kids too.

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Probably the most absurd thing I've read on this board in my 8 or so years, if you really mean that literally. Everyone should have a jacuzzi too, for that special bubbly comfort.

That may be the problem with people and money. You are equating the basic common sense of saving money with the ownership of a luxury item. It isn't that hard to save money if you just don't buy what you can't afford.

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The whole point is that you're getting there. You've got a plan and you are saving. So many people, on this thread, even, seemed to have thrown their hands up in the air and say "well, who in the heck can save that much?" or assert that only 3% of the people in America could possibly save "that much".

A journey of 1,000 miles starts with a single step, and I congratulate you for being well on the path.

It would take a lot of fucking guts for you to go to nearest slums and spout something that new age preachy to the first person you met.

If you can't afofrd to save a couple thousand bucks in preparation for having a kid, then you can't afford to raise a kid.

I take it you didn't read the thread.

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Guest thebadlady

Odds are, if you have a surprise pregnancy, you aren't much of a planner in other things. Just sayin'.

Edit: it ain't new age preachy. its life & common sense. if you are a broke ass, do something about it. or wallow in your dirty ass poverty.

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No, not really. While every child isn't planned like D-Day, that's the point of having something like an emergency fund. So that if you do need to take some time off of work, or have unexpected medical bills, you can take care of it, not look to everyone else for a handout.

Again, your really not understanding the concept.

No matter how good an idea it is, some people WON'T FUCKING DO IT.

And these people will have kids anyway.

So, again:

Your gonna need to do something about the un-saved-for kids too.
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I will agree that "being financially secure" would require 8 months expenses in savings, but I also think this is pretty difficult for the majority to achieve.

Right, and we should avoid at all costs those things that are 'difficult', and instead turn to the government to do them for us.

Unfortunately, people have kids anyway. It's not exactly hard. Or, often, voluntary.

Not every child is planned out like fucking D-Day. Your gonna need to do something about the un-saved-for kids too.

If people act responsibly, they do not get pregnant 'often'.

And you are completely shifting the goalpost here. Accidents happen, true, but I don't believe that the proposal here is to only provide paid maternity leave for unplanned kids.

The discussion was about being able to save. And my point stands. If you are unable to save, then you should be doing everything in your power to not have kids, because you can't afford them.

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Not every child is planned out like fucking D-Day. Your gonna need to do something about the un-saved-for kids too.

Cause, you know, throughout American history these kids have died. Or grown up to be serial killers. One or the other. It's like you think that once someone has a baby they suddenly are lost in the void, unable to obtain assistance from anyone, and absolutely unable to support themselves.

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Unfortunately, people have kids anyway. It's not exactly hard. Or, often, voluntary.

If i decide not to get insurance so I can have a few extra bucks to spend and then my house burns down should the government cut me a check for my losses? after all, i certainly didn't volunteer to have my house burned down.

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Guest thebadlady
I take it you're addressing the child of the poverty-stricken parents here, too?

You can get free birth control in the US.

Preachy about Wal-mart? I ain't the only one and its ok to have standards.

BUT, I am not republican about social services. I am actually socialist - I'd rather pay for someone's baby than have it grow up with scurvy. Even illegal babies! All I am saying is that it doesn't take a six figure income and rocket science to not be a broke ass loser.

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No, not really. While every child isn't planned like D-Day, that's the point of having something like an emergency fund. So that if you do need to take some time off of work, or have unexpected medical bills, you can take care of it, not look to everyone else for a handout.

Some people might call an enhanced FMLA not a handout but an investment.

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Some people might call an enhanced FMLA not a handout but an investment.

Exactly.

There's no shifting goalposts here. You are gonna pay for the people around you one way or another. So why not do it in such a way that they are in a position to pay you back in the future.

Give them a good education, lots of time with their families and all those other things that lead to better adjusted, more productive members of society. Everyone wins.

Give more paternity leave and people raise better kids (on average obviously)

Planned, unplanned, rich, poor, it's irrelevant. Your not gonna stop these kids from being born so fucking invest in them so they turn out the best they possibly can.

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My point was there are plenty of people making just barely above minimum wage. Those people who work at Wal-Mart and other such places. You don't like the way they are treated or how much money they make. Not everyone has a college degree and an income above the poverty level.

Take a town near me. It has a Target that pays $9.00 an hour for over night stock. 40hrs a week is like $360, minus taxes and insurance and such and take home is $250 a week or $1,000 a month. Cheapest apartment available is $850. Not too bad since her husband makes the same as she does. They even manage to put $100 a month into savings. She gets pregnant. She has complcations and ends up on bed rest the last month. This eats up most of their savings. No day care will take a child under 6weeks old. She losing her income for those 6 weeks. Without the money, they will likely lose their apartment too.

They are working and doing the right things, no major expenses, saving a little and were on the pill because they wanted to wait.

They weren't exactly wallowing in their dirty ass poverty.

This is the way it is for the majority.

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All I am saying is that it doesn't take a six figure income and rocket science to not be a broke ass loser.

This is really some nasty rhetoric here. We've gone directly from talking in general about people who can't make ends meet to you making them into losers. Unless you're of the opinion that the only reason for not being able to make ends meet is because of some moral character defect, I don't see the connection.

In general, the idea that *everyone* can make it if they just want is the great myth of our age, but it's sad to see people in here subscribe to it so uncritically. The notion that millions of people go hungry every day because they can't be arsed to do anything else is just boggling.

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Give them a good education, lots of time with their families and all those other things that lead to better adjusted, more productive members of society. Everyone wins.

Ahem....

We all therefore, put in our claim, under some pretext or other, and apply to Government. We say to it, " I am dissatisfied at the proportion between my labor and my enjoyments. I should like, for the sake of restoring the desired equilibrium, to take a part of the possessions of others. But this would be dangerous. Could not you facilitate the thing for me? Could you not find me a good place? or check the industry of my competitors? or, perhaps, lend me gratuitously some capital which, you may take from its possessor? Could you not bring up my children at the public expense? or grant me some prizes? or secure me a competence when I have attained my fiftieth year? By this mean I shall gain my end with an easy conscience, for the law will have acted for me, and I shall have all the advantages of plunder, without its risk or its disgrace!"

As it is certain, on the one hand, that we are all making some similar request to the Government; and as, on the other, it is proved that Government cannot satisfy one party without adding to the labor of the others, until I can obtain another definition of the word Government I feel authorized to give it my own. Who knows but it may obtain the prize? Here it is:

"Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."

-Frederic Bastiat

For every person taking paid maternity leave, you need 5 who don't take it to support them. For every person who attends college for free, you need 5 people who go to work straight out of high school to provide the tax revenue to pay it. Thus the kids of the workers don't get the time with their parents, because they are working. Wouldn't it be better to have paid teenager leave, so that parents can be more influential on the youth who are acutally causing problems, at the expense of the parents of newborns?

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Libertarian bullshit.

/yawn

How witty :rolleyes:

Give them a good education, lots of time with their families and all those other things that lead to better adjusted, more productive members of society. Everyone wins.

Socialist bullshit

/zzzzzZZZZzzzzzz....

ETA:

The notion that millions of people go hungry every day because they can't be arsed to do anything else is just boggling.

Who, in the United States, are the "millions going hungry every day"? I grew up with broke-ass-poor parents (way below the poverty line), and I can't recall missing meals ever.

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