Relic Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Your friend has issues and honestly that you consider this person "goofy" is not something I would be proud of. I am not saying he/she is a bad person per se, but to strap an explosive on an animal that didn't do a thing to deserve this, blow them up, and not have any remorse is not a stellar example of the human species.the point is he did it like 15 years ago. has had no further incidents of animal cruelty he has confessed to. nor has he killed anyone. or hurt anyone. he's a funny, gawky, slightly goofy guy. he has a girl and a kid, and is fun to have a smoke with. God, we're a nation of hysterical people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Yes but it is not the only thing in there is it?Even being a sociopath does not mean that a person is guaranteed to become a violent criminal, although they are far more likely to than non-sociopaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Relic,God, we're a nation of hysterical people...Right, because having someone tell a story about blowing up a cat, for fun, without regret, is nothing to get alarmed about. Heck, who hasn't blown up an animal for fun a time or two?:/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixodes Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 the point is he did it like 15 years ago. has had no further incidents of animal cruelty he has confessed to. nor has he killed anyone. or hurt anyone. he's a funny, gawky, slightly goofy guy. he has a girl and a kid, and is fun to have a smoke with. God, we're a nation of hysterical people...I'm hysterical, ok. I may be a bit biased. I have spent far too many hours treating animals that happened to cross the path of the wrong "goofy" person. I have seen some truly fucked up shit and spent months trying to pick up the pieces and turn a burned, painful husk of a living animal into a functional trusting living animal. I have had to kill some pets just because they couldn't trust a human following a severe abuse episode. What effect do you think this has on the people that have to act like adults and clean up the mess?Extreme animal abuse shows a marked lack of compassion and this doesn't concern you? I mean, we are not talking about a person who kicked a dog. For fuck's sake this person put a cat in an oven and roasted them to death. What about this scenario doesn't set off great big warning bells in your mind? Whatever. I don't advocate judging people based on limited info. You smoke with whomever you feel comfortable. Just don't expect everyone to share your views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Extreme animal abuse shows a marked lack of compassion and this doesn't concern you? I mean, we are not talking about a person who kicked a dog. For fuck's sake this person put a cat in an oven and roasted them to death. What about this scenario doesn't set off great big warning bells in your mind?My initial response was to a person who called for life long therapy, 2 years imprisonment, and what basically amounted to a red A on their chest. you guys defended his post, for reasons i can't fathom. i wonder where YOUR compassion is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Relic,Are you saying people who bake animals to death or blow them up for fun really just need a hug?Apologies. That was flaming for flaming's sake. I shouldn't have said that. Relic I believe you were simply making the point that jailtime may not have been the best way to prevent a recurrence of the incident in question. That is a fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixodes Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 My initial response was to a person who called for life long therapy, 2 years imprisonment, and what basically amounted to a red A on their chest. you guys defended his post, for reasons i can't fathom. i wonder where YOUR compassion is.My compassion is with the animal that was thrown into an oven and killed by extreme heat. Not a method of death I would want for myself, to say the least.I didn't make any comment on life long therapy, imprisonment, or placing a red A on their chest. I will say that torturing any living being, whether it is a cat in an oven, an animal strapped to an explosive, or a person waterboarded at Gitmo is very, very wrong and shouldn't be encouraged, absolved, or dismissed without serious thought. And I will say that based on my personal experience the legal ramifications of abusing animals is far too soft in the US.YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Relic,Are you saying people who bake animals to death or blow them up for fun really just need a hug?WTF?He's saying they don't need "life long therapy, 2 years imprisonment, and what basically amounted to a red A on their chest." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undead Dungeon Master Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I knew a kid who strapped a blockbuster firefracker to a cat, lit it, and threw the cat into a metal garbage can. Boom, red pasta sauce. A terrible act, one that disgusted me upon hearing it and made me nauseous, yet this person in question is seemingly a well adjusted adult now. he's actually a pretty cool guy, all told. maybe a bit dumb (but lets face it, lots of people are). If you had it your way he probably would have been tranqed up bouncing off of walls in a straitjacket for the last 10 years."I thought he was pretty nice ... But then again, I knew that his beliefs were way out of line. They were good neighbors, but, well, I got blue eyes, so I guess that helps."--Meda VanDyke on her neighbor, neo-Nazi murderer Buford Furrow"He used to say, 'They're watching me, through your satellite dish.' I'd tell him, 'No, no, Rusty, no, they aren't watching you.' I tried to convince him, but it made no difference ... He was just a regular guy when he didn't have this problem. Everybody said, 'He's harmless.' "--Ken Moore, on his neighbor, U.S. Capitol murderer Russell Weston"We figured they would have questioned him and let him go and eventually we forgot about it."--Eric Anderson, neighbor of Atlanta mass murderer Mark Barton, on the murder of Barton's first wife and mother-in-law several years earlier"Vernell and Pamela Bass lived in next door to Dahmer. As one paper reported, "Both Vernell and Pamela visited Dahmer's apartment often. He always kept the bedroom [and closets] locked. He had a video camera attached to the ceiling, which recorded every move. Otherwise there was nothing strange, they said." There wasn't? They also noticed the stench of rotting meat from his apartment and they "heard sounds of sawing from his apartment day and night." Downstairs neighbor Aaron Whiteheard said, "One night, I heard what sounded like a kid ... He was crying like his mother had just walloped him. I heard a big falling sound ... like he was being hurt." Yet even after admitting all this, Dahmer's neighbors insisted there was nothing odd about him, that he joined in neighborhood barbecues, that he was "like the average Joe.""All quotes taken from the article "What's Wrong The Neighbors?"Point made? yes/no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Point made? yes/no?You're right his friend is clearly a serial killer :rolleyes: , or alternatively not everyone who has enagaged in animal cruelty goes on to be a violent criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Relic,Right, because having someone tell a story about blowing up a cat, for fun, without regret, is nothing to get alarmed about. Heck, who hasn't blown up an animal for fun a time or two?:/Way to deflect. You defended a post that called for pretty extreme and (in my mind) fascist punishment for killing a cat. You then said your concern was the lack of remorse the girl may or may not show. You acknowledge that you lack information to base your opinion on, but you want to discuss my friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Point made? yes/no?No. Unless every one of those killers had been documented as animal abusers and you just forgot to mention that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undead Dungeon Master Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 My initial response was to a person who called for life long therapy, 2 years imprisonment, and what basically amounted to a red A on their chest. you guys defended his post, for reasons i can't fathom. i wonder where YOUR compassion is.Hey Relic, did you know that the average sociopath rapist starts by torturing small animals, moves on to sexually abusing neighborhood girls, commits a series of date rapes in college, and then marries and becomes a domestic abuser, and eventually escalates to forcible stranger rape and murder? Or to incest and child molestation? I'll bet money right now that Josef Fritzl tortured animals as a child. I realize you think I'm being extreme, but you seriously do not understand how much damage these people do over the course of a lifetime.Also, the reason I suggested lifelong therapy is because there is no known treatment for sociopathy. Only monitoring. Sociopaths never get better, they only get bolder. And what makes them get bolder? Getting away with things like blowing up cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undead Dungeon Master Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 You're right his friend is clearly a serial killer :rolleyes: , or alternatively not everyone who has enagaged in animal cruelty goes on to be a violent criminal.That would be a no then. The point was not that his friend is clearly a serial killer, but that if his friend was a serial killer or rapist he wouldn't know. Unless Relic's friend is a proxy for Relic himself, then there's really no way Relic could know how this guy treats women when no one else is around, or what this guy does in his spare time, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageGuy Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Does that mean that you can do whatever you want to an animal so long as it isn't someone's pet?Is it worded that way so it doesn't include game, lab rats, and livestock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Hey Relic, did you know that the average sociopath rapist starts by torturing small animals, moves on to sexually abusing neighborhood girls, commits a series of date rapes in college, and then marries and becomes a domestic abuser, and eventually escalates to forcible stranger rape and murder? Or to incest and child molestation? I'll bet money right now that Josef Fritzl tortured animals as a child. I realize you think I'm being extreme, but you seriously do not understand how much damage these people do over the course of a lifetime. Yeah i think we should judge all cases based on what the averages are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Hey Relic, did you know that the average sociopath rapist starts by torturing small animals, moves on to sexually abusing neighborhood girls, commits a series of date rapes in college, and then marries and becomes a domestic abuser, and eventually escalates to forcible stranger rape and murder? Or to incest and child molestation? I'll bet money right now that Josef Fritzl tortured animals as a child. I realize you think I'm being extreme, but you seriously do not understand how much damage these people do over the course of a lifetime.Also, the reason I suggested lifelong therapy is because there is no known treatment for sociopathy. Only monitoring. Sociopaths never get better, they only get bolder. And what makes them get bolder? Getting away with things like blowing up cats.Cruelty to animals is in no way a definitive indication of sociopathy, no matter how many times you say it.Additionally sociopathy is in no way a guarantee of criminal behavior, in fact the majority of sociopaths are probably not criminals. Finally there no particular indications that sociopaths are particularly prone to commiting sexually orientated murders, in fact there are studies that suggest the vast majority of sociopaths haven't committed any such crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 That would be a no then. The point was not that his friend is clearly a serial killer, but that if his friend was a serial killer or rapist he wouldn't know. Unless Relic's friend is a proxy for Relic himself, then there's really no way Relic could know how this guy treats women when no one else is around, or what this guy does in his spare time, etc.i got no idea what you do either. And you have no idea what i do. And neither of us know the girl in question. Maybe it would be wiser if we all reserved judgment? Lest we think ourselves Gods, and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageGuy Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Additionally sociopathy is in no way a guarantee of criminal behaviorThough in this particular case, we've also got breaking and entering, theft, and vandalism.You break into someone's home and throw their pet in the oven as a joke, I think some therapy might be called for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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