Yet Another World of Warcraft Thread

[BillBrasky]

Guess I disagree, Dash. I don't see a lot of point in practicing having to deal with multiple crushers on the transition, for instance. I'd rather spend the time learning how to get each thing right. Clearly it worked for FnB, but that isn't to say that it's the only thing that works.

I know you disagree. But unfortunately this fight takes a lot of practice and things can go wrong anywhere. Hell even in P1, if your last guardian spawns at the other side and takes 6-8 seconds to get over to the group, and another 2 sec to be picked up by a tank and for the tank to get enough aggro (usually a taunt a couple of hits) AND it just so happens that a cloud is right in the melee range so the tank has to back that last one all the way back making it a much longer distance to run to the middle. Right there you lose 20 seconds at least, pretty much enough time for a new guardian to spawn and deal with. The more practice you get out of each phase the better your next attempt will be. Its a very dynamic fight.

Huh. I could've sworn at least one ranged was on those guys. They certainly were taking a long time to die without anyone on 'em other than the tank.

Stegho always instructs ALL RANGED to be on crushers at start of phase 2. Meaning ALL RANGED DPS. The reason for that increases the DPS done on the crushers who lower overall damage output. Tanks can chew through the last 8% its not that much and it minimizes raid damage if its just the tank while all DPS focus on the Crusher. Since it is usually 1 or 2 adds left, 1 tank is always free to interrupt on the crusher.

The tank dance I'm referring to is the run in & interrupt then back out part. It's not a stance dance. Sorry if I wasn't clearer. And I have no idea what a paladin or DK do to interrupt; I know a feral can charge and automatically interrupt + be in melee, and a warrior can charge/bash or heroic throw - what do paladins do? And yeah, you're right - I was talking about the interrupting the channeling, not the stacks. My bad.

Right. I never said anything about a stance dance.. that would be ridiculous. I dont think I've switched out of Def stance since Ulduar came out. (well that one time I used the other throw warrs have)

The channelling is interrupted by any melee damage so a paladin tank and a DK tank can easily run in and also hit it and interrupt the channel. The crusher is not stunnable and warr doesnt have to use bash. IT IS ANY MELEE HIT including yellow PHYSICAL hits. I may be wrong but from what I do when i charge in or run up I either SS, Devastate, Concussion Blow or jsut a plain white swing at it. Normally heroic throw should be saved for when the crusher has over 70 stacks or is at its limit (99). This pretty much guarantees a 1 shot. So you want to Heroic throw to interrupt at a distance.

P.S. This is all a guess, dont mean to argue with ya bro since I've never actually done the fight as a tank :P

Edit: Centillion of grammar mystakes and typos.

[PhelanArcetus]

Loken was the toughest until you had 20k health buffed group wide then you just stand on top of him and take the lightening hit. I have killed him in like 25s using that strat. Go go nature resist totem/aspect of the wild.

Ah hell, we got him my first time in H-HoL like that. Granted the priest died and needed a combat rez (he forgot about healing himself, in his own words), but we did it.

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone has problems with AN, H- or otherwise, unless they're woefully undergeared. All three boss fights are pretty simple, and unless you forget to nail the skirmishers first it isn't like the trash is any real threat either.

WowWiki says that the last boss is the hardest heroic fight in the game. I have to wonder what they're smoking.

Definitely used to be hardest achievment; you needed some trick to burn tons of his hp while he was casting pound so he didn't just burrow, or some such. The problems I ran into in AN basically amounted to "the group has idiots in it, this X is doing under 1k dps, and the healer is complaining that I didn't stop and wait for his mana when it's an event with no breaks". Or "the healer is clearly too dumb to keep himself alive." And I think I've had about two H-UP groups that were not guild where someone ever cleansed the disease the aboms give you. It's dumb pugs. On Anub'arak they don't move out of the pound or the impale. And so on.

[Kalbear]

P.S. This is all a guess, dont mean to argue with ya bro since I've never actually done the fight as a tank tongue.gif

Yeah, you're right, Dash. I shouldn't talk about what I've not personally done. I'll stay out of it.

[BlueRose]

How many tanks do you guys use on normal mode Mimiron 25?

[Guest thebadlady]

I need to preen. My son has 16 toons and has been using google to learn to play. He ran wailing caverns on his DK to gear up his babies and check this: map of wailing caverns wow !!! he is so smart! :D

[Stego]

How many tanks do you guys use on normal mode Mimiron 25?

Seems like it could be done with one. but two is the answer to the question.

Grey, hit up Stegho! :D

[Yagathai]

Well we just wiped a dozen times in a row on the first boss of the Nexus. :sick:

[Week]

Well we just wiped a dozen times in a row on the first boss of the Nexus. :sick:

Yeah, 800 and 900 dps is quite a problem on any boss. Only time I ever had issues on that boss was running with a healer that was completely epicced but must have been on heroin or something.

[Lyanna Stark]

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone has problems with AN, H- or otherwise, unless they're woefully undergeared. All three boss fights are pretty simple, and unless you forget to nail the skirmishers first it isn't like the trash is any real threat either.

WowWiki says that the last boss is the hardest heroic fight in the game. I have to wonder what they're smoking.

Is that the mind control dude? We always used to cheese him by LOSing his MC in the beginning. Or wait, the bug boss? Oh he was AWFUL. I always died there in the beginning.

I haven't done all the heroic achivements, mostly because heroic Occulus is just too bloody bad for me to ever enter it again. The achivement for the first boss in AN is also MUCH easier with a paladin healer (first people to do this in our guild always brought pally healers).

Definitely used to be hardest achievment; you needed some trick to burn tons of his hp while he was casting pound so he didn't just burrow, or some such.

This was at least at one point bugged, since we brought a flasked team with an ele shaman, lock and I think mage, me healing and a prot warrior tanking. The warrior shieldwalled and I was using some hit gear, holy fire/smite spammed during the BL/burn phase and we burnt him more than what the guides said, but he still burrowed and we failed it. Post nerf Joskii and did it acidentally while helping a guildie's alt. :P

Re Yoggie P3: Yeah, I'm not sure what will happen once we get to P3 properly. Oh well, time will tell.

The shadownovas and MC the adds do in P1 are really annoying. It does explain a lot of the cast bars are fucked as well, plus the MC does not show up properly on my GRID, and not at all on DBM and I have to dispel them with Decursive, or not at all. Ugh.

How many tanks do you guys use on normal mode Mimiron 25?

Ya, we use two as well. Plus a Holy Pally running around with righteous fury picking up small adds which then get tanked by a proper tank (he gets a Disc priest assigned for shielding in addition to his own, a SS on him is also a good idea as he sometimes gets a bit overambitous :P )

Plus we also have a warlock tank for the head, with two dedicated or semi-dedicated healers.

However, soulshatter has a cooldown, so if the tank sucks at holding aggro really bad I'm screwed regardless. As I learned last night. I mean, what's the point of even being in the raid if I can't single target mobs without pulling them off the tanks?

As my husband raids as a lock :P I know this is a common problem.

Some things you can do:

* Wait a long time with DPSing (this is normally what is know as "furthest down the list" :P )

* Get a friendly Disc priest to Pain Supress you, as this drops your threat with 5%

* Get a paladin to cast Hand of Salvation on you (also threat dump, 2% every 1 sec for 10 sec)

* Get your friendly, taunt trigger happy prot warrior to put his Vigilance on you. You get less threat, he gets more, and he can taunt as often as he likes. This makes most warrior tanks happy in their pants. :P

Despite this, I'd bring a lot of gold for repair costs. :P

[RaceBannon42]

Re Yoggie P3: Yeah, I'm not sure what will happen once we get to P3 properly. Oh well, time will tell.

People will freak out, forget how to play, dps the wrong adds, and fail to turn around, and you will be driven insane IRL.

[Kouran]

People will freak out, forget how to play, dps the wrong adds, and fail to turn around, and you will be driven insane IRL.

Welp my guild dropped 25 man yogg on the 3rd attempt last night. We got em to 8% on the second attempt before it went pear shaped. Was a cool fight, was funny as hell that we had a recruit in there becuase we were short a raider.

I fucken hate doing the dreams as a hunter, SWC is like -60 sanity. Nothing like starting phase 3 with 24 sanity.

We use hunters in the dreams becuase we only have 7 melee, woe to the poor hunters.

[Yagathai]

Yeah, 800 and 900 dps is quite a problem on any boss. Only time I ever had issues on that boss was running with a healer that was completely epicced but must have been on heroin or something.

Seriously. It was a brutal massacre. I've never been one of those guys that inspects all the other folks in a PUG, but I might just start.

[Lyanna Stark]

People will freak out, forget how to play, dps the wrong adds, and fail to turn around, and you will be driven insane IRL.

That happens to us on every transition :P

We also have highlight like:

*A holy priest with 8 total dispels on Yogg Saron, over 2 hours

*Ranged DPSing everything but the same crusher in P2, despite having an assist on the MT list. "Shoot what hunter A is doing" shouldn't be hard, but apparently it is. LOLdps is far more fun.

*People milling around like crazy when P3 hits, going "OMG p3 WAT I DO NOW I DINNA RAED TEH GUDE LOL!!!". this includes people moving into the sanity wells while looking straight at Yoggie. I wish I was joking.

The good news is we have around 15 people who have now done it on 10 man, which only leaves 10 total mouthbreathers we need to beat into submission. :P

I fucken hate doing the dreams as a hunter, SWC is like -60 sanity. Nothing like starting phase 3 with 24 sanity.

Ya, I hate that too. It's not too bad normally as a healer, but then you come out and get insta deathcoiled, then brainlinked with somebody at the other end of the room, and ugh. Things can really easily conspire against you if you're in the portal team. My record was once when two constrictors were constantly parked outside my portal. I healed myself while constricted through three portal phases and got taken down twice by DPS. *sigh*

[Week]

Seriously. It was a brutal massacre. I've never been one of those guys that inspects all the other folks in a PUG, but I might just start.

I was the same way until I was in a Naxx run with a DK doing 600 dps...he stayed in frost and was wearing half tanking gear, half dps gear, and about a third were greens. Just mind boggling.

Re: Yogg,

I think you guys should have put me in. Then people would have been like, "shit, we have less dps and he's new so he might fuck up..we need to be perfect." Those recruits from SP are way too on their game. :P

[BillBrasky]

I was the same way until I was in a Naxx run with a DK doing 600 dps...he stayed in frost and was wearing half tanking gear, half dps gear, and about a third were greens. Just mind boggling.

Re: Yogg,

I think you guys should have put me in. Then people would have been like, "shit, we have less dps and he's new so he might fuck up..we need to be perfect." Those recruits from SP are way too on their game. :P

Dude.. i did normal nexus yesterday on my 71 DK and pumped out 950 DPS... beating a 73 lock and a 75 enh shammy.. this class is so OP.

Perfect? Cant be perfect if the actual fight is like the #6 priority on the list for some people. cuz i mean there is burping, Encidia Pvp/Arena, walking man, something about tits for dkp and pretty much everything else but the actual fight.

[PhelanArcetus]

Didn't log in yesterday as I had errands and an early night.

But then I was linked this: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1913827

And it was coupled with the suggestion that an entire raid worth of orcs should do this in Stormwind.

[Ser Stephen]

Not sure that I follow the argument that raiders that have a lot of experience doing 10 man Ulduar expand into a 25 man Ulduar and expect that all 15 of those raiders with no 10 man experience to know each of the fights as well as they do. Seems a bit arrogant and mostly not a very intelligent assumption.

To then label these less experienced folks mouth breathers is uncharitable to say the least.

Sort of says a lot about those posters.

That's my opinion.

[Lyanna Stark]

Not sure that I follow the argument that raiders that have a lot of experience doing 10 man Ulduar expand into a 25 man Ulduar and expect that all 15 of those raiders with no 10 man experience to know each of the fights as well as they do. Seems a bit arrogant and mostly not a very intelligent assumption.

To then label these less experienced folks mouth breathers is uncharitable to say the least.

Sort of says a lot about those posters.

That's my opinion.

Yes, but YOU haven't had to endure 104 wipes on Yogg Saron (someone ran a counter), like our guild has, and during these wipes a lot of the same people keep making the same mistakes, over and over and over again. They don't interrupt, they don't dispel, they don't move out of the way of clouds, they miss their portals, they forget to go to their sanity wells, they take somebody else's portal, they DPS the wrong tentacles, the face Yoggie in P3 despite being told more than ten times what to do.

I've done all bosses on ten man and all but Yoggie completed on 25 man (not counting the Algernon dude) and imho they are very similar. If you know the ten man strat you know the 25 man, more or less. The main difficulty is that instead of managing ten people, you have to manage 25 and some of them WILL invariably behave like idiots.

It helps a lot to have done it on ten man for sure, in fact it makes it much easier, but we spent less than 3 hours on taking the ten man version, we've spent over 3 weeks on the 25 man version. Some people just will not bother reading guides or understanding the fight, at all. They just simply won't.

The average amount of wipes on pre-nerf Vashj was around 80 and she was known as "The Guild breaker". We've had 104 and a near guild split over this. Nuff said.

[Ser Stephen]

My point goes something like this:

If the 10 man fight prepares you for the 25 man fight, and if the 10 man fight requires less gear and less "talent", why would anyone want to try 25 man without a full crew of folks that have 10 man experience and enough gear upgrades to be prepared for 25 man raiding?

Its like saying college football prepares you for the NFL, but for our special franchise, The Detroit Lions, we are going to use 40% to 60% of players with only high school experience and talent. And, we are going to expect to be competitive and go to the Super Bowl in our first season. And, when our critics ask us why we have failed we will blame the high school kids, because it is there linability to compete with the college graduates that has gotten us into this mess.

Just seems like an oxymoron, or a self fulfilled prophecy, and completely unremarkable

[Kalbear]

It helps a lot to have done it on ten man for sure, in fact it makes it much easier, but we spent less than 3 hours on taking the ten man version, we've spent over 3 weeks on the 25 man version. Some people just will not bother reading guides or understanding the fight, at all. They just simply won't.

Eh. I didn't do it at all on 10-man and I made a couple mistakes in my first few tries (notably: not calling out for help when constricted and taking the wrong portal). I got told what to do and I didn't do it again.

I think that it doesn't help on 10-man nearly as much. I think rather that the people who are motivated to do it on 10-man are going to be better players, as a rule. They're more engaged in doing the right thing, they're more interested in progression and raiding, etc. The ones that are failing on 25s are the ones that aren't that interested in pushing for 10s. Basically, if you took those other 15 players to 10-man they'd fail there too. Or more likely, they wouldn't have gotten there in the first place.