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Angalin

[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Bran 1 - Spoilers for ADWD

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That's ridiculous.

I don't find it ridiculous. If CH's eyes were shrouded by cloak, Sam would not say anything about his eyes. He needs to remove the cloak from his eyes to make sure that CH's eyes don't shine.

he important thing is not what Sam notices
That is important for us to figure out CH's identity. If CH has 2 eyes then he could not be Bloodraven.

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That is important for us to figure out CH's identity. If CH has 2 eyes then he could not be Bloodraven.

GRRM has always felt free to withhold details that would spoil a later dramatic reveal. I don't see why he would make an exception just to validate your theory about Coldhands.

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GRRM has always felt free to withhold details that would spoil a later dramatic reveal. I don't see why he would make an exception just to validate your theory about Coldhands.

Actually, i don't have any theory about Colhands. I am just curious who he is. I am not sure that he is Bloodraven. That's it. I found Sam's words in ASOS, but not in English. Sam was talking to Bran and mentioned that CH is pale like a wight, his hands are cold like wights' hands, but wights don't talk and have blue eyes.

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Actually, i don't have any theory about Colhands. I am just curious who he is. I am not sure that he is Bloodraven. That's it. I found Sam's words in ASOS, but not in English. Sam was talking to Bran and mentioned that CH is pale like a wight, his hands are cold like wights' hands, but wights don't talk and have blue eyes.

"He wasn't a green man. He wore blacks, like a brother of the Watch, but he was pale as a wight, with hands so cold that at first I was afraid. The wights have blue eyes, though, and they don't have tongues, or they've forgotten how to use them."

CH doesn’t have blue eyes like wights yet Sam said nothing about what eyes and how many CH had.

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"He wasn't a green man. He wore blacks, like a brother of the Watch, but he was pale as a wight, with hands so cold that at first I was afraid. The wights have blue eyes, though, and they don't have tongues, or they've forgotten how to use them."

CH doesn’t have blue eyes like wights yet Sam said nothing about what eyes and how many CH had.

Thank you! Does it mean that Sam was able to see his eyes? When Sam met CH the first time, CH's head was hooded. Bran and Co spent a few days with CH together, i think they would also be able to see his eyes if Sam did it. Someone of them would notice that CH is one eyed.

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The eyes of wights glow so even if CH was hooded Sam would have notice that. If CH had one glowing eye Sam surely would notice it but if CH always covered his face Sam would know only what he said – CH doesn’t have eyes like wight.

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Bloodraven couldn’t be 3EC by a very simple reason – the third eye would be only the second for him.

However I don’t see any reason why CH couldn’t be him.

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Bloodraven couldn’t be 3EC by a very simple reason – the third eye would be only the second for him.

However I don’t see any reason why CH couldn’t be him.

Well, the fact that he's a crow would be a much bigger difference than just having an extra eye or two. The three-eyed crow could just be some sort of visual representation of him, the form he's chosen to speak to Bran in. That song goes "a thousand eyes and one", which could mean the thousand being his birds and the one being his special vision.

I also think Benjen could be a warg, because we know it's in the Stark blood, and running off to be a ranger would be the perfect job for a warg.

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The "thousand eyes and one" thing clearly refers to the fact that he had hundred of informants, just as Varys did. I'm not really sure where the notion that he had ravens spying for him comes from...

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The "thousand eyes and one" thing clearly refers to the fact that he had hundred of informants, just as Varys did. I'm not really sure where the notion that he had ravens spying for him comes from...

Brynder Rivers Bracker mother was First Men and Brackers worship to the Old Gods. Brackers are only house in the south whos we see worship to Old Gods (meybe there are anothers). We dont see magic among Seven servents, but do among Old Gods servents. Brackers goat of arms are wood and ravens on it. And Bloodraven need to have somekind of informers. Only speculatin here.

Bloodraven couldn’t be 3EC by a very simple reason – the third eye would be only the second for him.

However I don’t see any reason why CH couldn’t be him.

Bloodravens one eye (wargin eye) + ravens two eye = 3 eye. Bloodraven in his human body cant be alive no more. But he can live in one of his animal by wargin. Same thing as Varamyr live in his (segond life) one eyed wolf. Only spekulating but I believe this.

Edited by Jaime Hill/Waters

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CH is not Bloodraven. Seems like a pretty open and shut case to me.

Not even remotely.

One thing that's worth noting is that Sam did manage to view some of CH skin aside from his blackened hands, because he commented on how pale it was. So either this was just around the wrists, or CH is concealing himself more around Bran than he did around Sam. Or perhaps it's just a minor backpedal by GRRM to keep the mystery going longer (though there's as good cause to think that Sam would have recognised the Stark look if CH had it and he got a good view of his face). If CH face turns out to be horribly mutilated, that also argues against Sam having seen it and just having seen wrists or something.

The more I think about this new chapter (which is indeed delightfully dark and hopeless in tone; didn't expect it to be nearly so gloomy since it seemed they were now on a fast track toward the TEC with a powerful guardian) the less CH words and demeanor seem to match Benjen. Benjen was friendly and jovial at the feast, but stern toward Jon when he exhibited a childish sense of entitlement (wanting to go ranging before he even finished his training and said his words).

CH just seems to be doing his job and doesn't give the impression that he gives a shit what the kids think about him. His clinical answer to the black hands question seems very matter of fact, without any indication of personal horror, nor much to calm the kid's fears...which to me makes the idea that he would conceal his identity from his nephew to avoid scaring him. He *is* scaring him, and he's not really doing anything to lessen the scariness at all. If he really was Benjen, he could say so and it would help a lot. "Bran, you must trust me. I'm your Uncle Benjen and I'm going to protect you. I can't show you my face, but I can prove that it's me (by telling him things about their family, etc)". He could do that, but he doesn't, not even addressing Bran by name. Now Bloodraven seems to have enjoyed scaring people (or at least not caring that they were scared) with his appearance even when he was alive, judging from how he gave Dunk the evil eye when he saw him, and walking around with an empty socket instead of wearing a glass eye.

Now maybe he could have been so changed by his experience that there's really no Benjen left, but we don't know that that's how wights work. Jafer and Other had enough memories of Castle Black to make a close thing of taking out the Lord Commander, Cat is a whole different type of undead, but she obviously remembers and feels strongly about things from her life. CH doesn't give that sort of vibe at all.

Oh, and executing deserters is every bit as appropriate for a former Lord Commander of the NW as it is fro a Stark First Ranger.

Edited by Other-in-law

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Jaime,

Brynder Rivers Bracker mother was First Men and Brackers worship to the Old Gods.

Brynden Rivers, and his mother was a Blackwood, not a Bracken.

We see lots of houses that follow the Old Gods. Not a one of them other than the Reeds or the Starks (who must be among the purest of First Men houses) have shown such ability (with the possible exception of Jeor Mormont), whereas Bloodraven was half-Targaryen and who knows how much Andal blood the Blackwoods (surrounded by Andals, as they were) have. This is neither here nor there -- after all, most of the Starks are half-Tully -- but I wouldn't make any claims regarding Bloodraven being a skinchanger, not least because there's absolutely no reference to actual ravens being around his person in TSS. His association with ravens has solely to do with his parentage and the birthmark on his face.

As to pale skin, note that all the wights are described as pale, as far as I can tell -- certainly Jafer Flowers was. Fairly natural when your blood has congealed and congregated at the ends of your extremities, I suppose.

Edited by Ran

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Brynden Rivers, and his mother was a Blackwood, not a Bracken.

Thanks Ran that you correct me. Of course you are right on this.

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Awsome Chapter Finally Bran's Chapter is read, i'm really hoping that this Book wil have more than 4 Bran chapters wih this storyline

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Awsome Chapter Finally Bran's Chapter is read, i'm really hoping that this Book wil have more than 4 Bran chapters wih this storyline

You may want to glance at this thread - warning SPOILERS of varying degrees at the end of the link.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showtopic=5960

This tells you who the PoVs are in aDwD, as well as some indication of how many chapters we may get from some of them.

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Awsome Chapter Finally Bran's Chapter is read, i'm really hoping that this Book wil have more than 4 Bran chapters wih this storyline

Think you might be disappointed... GRRM made a comment about that. IIRC, he said that the 'main' viewpoints would be Jon and Dany and Tyrion, with around eight (?) chapters each. That doesn't leave enough room for more than four Bran chapters, I think.

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Whichever side of the Coldhands argument you stand on, isn't it nice to have some new aSoIaF material to chew on?

I think the bottom line that we can draw from our "exposure" to Coldhands at this point is that GRRM is taking measures to hide the identity of the man he was. GRRM must be doing that for a reason, likely in order to lend weight to the revelation when it comes and maybe for some other plot oriented reason.

So what is he waiting for? Is there something else that has to happen before he tells us who Coldhands is?

The fact that he is putting that revelation off means it is, for some reason, important to at least Bran's plotline, if not to other plotlines as well.

Just a quick addition on BR, Bloodraven went about cloaked and hooded as a rule of thumb. According to GRRM's description of Brynden Rivers to the artist Amok, his MO was to go about cloaked and hooded because of his albinism.

His colors are "scarlet and smoke," smoke being a sort of dark grey streaked and mottled with black. Because his skin is very sensitive to the rays of the sun, he frequently goes about cloaked and hooded."

Take that for what you will. I'm biased because I want BR to be relevant to the story, but I can think of a number of reasons why making BR = Coldhands plausible to the reader could be rather difficult for GRRM.

This chapter has done nothing to dim my hopes about BR, I'll have to say, but I also think it does very little by way of showing us who Coldhands really was/is.

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Awesome chapter, thank you!

Extremely depressing, which I too found startling, but very appropriate.

I really think the Reeds have no chance at all in both making it alive back to the wall. Jojens "Today is not the day..." sounded tetchy and given by rote, rather than his earlier mystical conviction. I can totally see him saying it again and then dying of hypothermia. (ASOIAF Prophecies Are Bunk, after all) Poor kid. I found him a bit annoying in COK and SOS, but can't help but feel sorry for him now. I also wonder what Meera and Jojen are going to be doing while Bran trains.

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